Sega @ e3 2015!

[sweenish]

What does that make you for responding to it? Also, it seems the conversation turned a bit and you missed it.

It makes me the person who pointed it out. The shot at a backdoor insult is just poor logic.

And what has it turned to? Three or so people talking about Sega's publishing ventures or lack thereof, and one person pointing out that DC games are still being made AMONG posts still addressing the actual thread? Yeah, it turned alright.

 

[purbeast0]

What was the cart port on the Saturn for? I never had one but a friend of mine got one (I had a playstation). Don't remember ever seeing it used.

xmen vs street fighter had a 4mb ram cart that went in there.

 

[mmntech]

What was the cart port on the Saturn for? I never had one but a friend of mine got one (I had a playstation). Don't remember ever seeing it used.

The cart slot was mostly used for memory expansion. Nintendo did something similar with the N64. Some games require it, others offer enhancements with the additional memory.

Some games also split up data between the cart and CD to enable faster loading. King of Fighters for example stored the backgrounds on the cartridge and the sprites on the CD.

GameSack did a good rundown of the Saturn that explains how this worked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcDAHVvDLuA

 

[smackababy]

Both the Saturn and Dreamcast were 2D power houses that could do arcade perfect ports. Unfortunately, everyone was obsessed with 3D at that point nobody cared about arcade games. Sega of Japan was out of touch with industry trends and spending more money than they had. It cost them dearly.

I really need to pick up both a DC and Saturn at some point. Wish I could have latched onto them when they were new because I was a big Genesis fanboy.

The Dreamcast could do arcade perfect ports because it was the arcade board they used (NAOMI). It was amazing and there was even an official (good) arcade stick released.

 

[mmntech]

The Dreamcast could do arcade perfect ports because it was the arcade board they used (NAOMI). It was amazing and there was even an official (good) arcade stick released.

All of Sega's home consoles, except for the 32X, were based on modified arcade boards.

The Master System and Mega Drive are based on the Sega System 1 and 16 respectively. The Sega CD has similar specs to the OutRun and Sega X boards.

The Saturn and the Sega Titan board were identical, with the arcade machine using ROM carts instead of CDs.

I think it was a bit of a double edged sword for Sega. On one hand, it made it very easy to build up a popular library, ports were fairly close if not identical to their arcade cousins. Even in the early days of the Genesis, arcade games were starting to lose their lustre with western audiences. People wanted deeper experiences from their home systems, which is what Nintendo was offering.

 

[cmdrdredd]

All of Sega's home consoles, except for the 32X, were based on modified arcade boards.



The Master System and Mega Drive are based on the Sega System 1 and 16 respectively. The Sega CD has similar specs to the OutRun and Sega X boards.



The Saturn and the Sega Titan board were identical, with the arcade machine using ROM carts instead of CDs.



I think it was a bit of a double edged sword for Sega. On one hand, it made it very easy to build up a popular library, ports were fairly close if not identical to their arcade cousins. Even in the early days of the Genesis, arcade games were starting to lose their lustre with western audiences. People wanted deeper experiences from their home systems, which is what Nintendo was offering.

I can see that last part. A lot of sega games were pick up and play types of games. Side scrolling action games etc. I don't remember a lot of their titles having a large world like super Mario (really starting with 3) and Zelda. I seem to remember most of the games I played on the genesis could have asked me to insert coins to continue. Nintendo also had the benefit of the better RPGs on the SNES than what was available on the genesis. At least in my opinion.

 

[IlllI]

sega is a mere shell of what they once were. i remember after the failure of the dreamcast they were going to try to position themselves as the next ea. that didn't work out either. i think the company got bought out by some slot machine company or something a few years back.

 

[mmntech]

I can see that last part. A lot of sega games were pick up and play types of games. Side scrolling action games etc. I don't remember a lot of their titles having a large world like super Mario (really starting with 3) and Zelda. I seem to remember most of the games I played on the genesis could have asked me to insert coins to continue. Nintendo also had the benefit of the better RPGs on the SNES than what was available on the genesis. At least in my opinion.

The Genesis had Phantasy Star but that was about it. A lot of the system's best non-arcade type games were third party. Sonic was the main driver of the system's popularity. It's said to be one of the prime reasons why the Saturn failed. Fans wanted Sonic, but Sega didn't deliver.

sega is a mere shell of what they once were. i remember after the failure of the dreamcast they were going to try to position themselves as the next ea. that didn't work out either. i think the company got bought out by some slot machine company or something a few years back.

You should read Console Wars if you haven't already. Sega's problems date back to the early 90s. The company's Japanese executives were notoriously resistant to outside ideas.

SoA CEO Tom Kalinske was responsible for popularizing Sega in the west, as well as many industry innovations in the way games are licensed and marketed. Many of which still reverberate today (Sonic Tuesday). However, he met with resistance from SoJ's executives. Kalinske was strongly opposed to the Saturn's surprised launch but was strong armed into going ahead anyway. He resigned shortly there after.

Sega of Japan quickly lost touch with industry trends. They didn't know how to make and market games for a global market. It's a huge issue in the Japanese gaming industry to this day. We're seeing the same shenanigans from the likes of Capcom, Konami, and even Nintendo.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It's said to be one of the prime reasons why the Saturn failed. Fans wanted Sonic, but Sega didn't deliver.

Sonic took WAY too long to make a leap into 3D. Sonic X-Treme dragged down the entire company pretty much:

http://www.lostlevels.org/200403/200403-xtreme.shtml

 

[mmntech]

Sonic took WAY too long to make a leap into 3D. Sonic X-Treme dragged down the entire company pretty much:

http://www.lostlevels.org/200403/200403-xtreme.shtml

Sonic X-Treme was an interesting concept but it wouldn't have saved the Saturn. The game was originally due to launch for Holiday 1996. The same launch window as Mario 64. X-Treme looks very dated by comparison.

 

[Aikouka]

Sonic took WAY too long to make a leap into 3D. Sonic X-Treme dragged down the entire company pretty much:

http://www.lostlevels.org/200403/200403-xtreme.shtml

What!? How could you forget about Sonic 3D Blast!? D:

 

[smackababy]

The Genesis had Phantasy Star but that was about it. A lot of the system's best non-arcade type games were third party. Sonic was the main driver of the system's popularity. It's said to be one of the prime reasons why the Saturn failed. Fans wanted Sonic, but Sega didn't deliver.

It didn't help the Saturn was expensive and had a wonky US controller. Sony also offered a cheap licensing fee for Playstation ($10 IIRC) and that drew third party developers.

Sega was just full of problems by the time the Saturn came out.


It doesn't help Sonic Team is full of idiots. There has been a single good 3D Sonic game: Sonic Adventure on DC. Nothing else was anywhere near as quality.

 

[Lil Frier]

What!? How could you forget about Sonic 3D Blast!? D:

I loved that and Sonic R on PC when I was a kid.

 

[mmntech]

What!? How could you forget about Sonic 3D Blast!? D:

I never got the hate for Sonic 3D Blast as it's an alright game on its own. It's definitely not a Sonic game though as it plays too slow.

Now the Game Gear version was a steaming pile of horse manure.

It doesn't help Sonic Team is full of idiots. There has been a single good 3D Sonic game: Sonic Adventure on DC. Nothing else was anywhere near as quality.

There's been a few decent modern Sonic games. The GBA Sonic Advanced series wasn't bad. Sonic Colors and Generations were also very good. The problem with Sonic Team is a lack of focus. They've strayed too far from the original formula, even with the 2D games. Fans of the series have been begging for a Genesis style game. Which we sort of got with Generations. Then they follow it up with bizarre games like Lost Worlds (X-Treme's spiritual successor) and that huge turd pile Sonic Boom (which Sonic Team didn't work on, but all the same).

I think this is indicative of problems within the entire Japanese gaming industry. Fans say they want something, executives say "no, you don't want that, have this instead", and the game bombs. Then they sit and wonder why games like Mighty No. 9 are breaking Kickstarter records.

I would love to see the original Sonic Team break from Sega and make their own Sonic-style game.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It doesn't help Sonic Team is full of idiots. There has been a single good 3D Sonic game: Sonic Adventure on DC. Nothing else was anywhere near as quality.

I don't think they were idiots. Nights was AMAZING for its day. I had a Saturn for that game and Dragon Force. Hell Nights was the only game where that big Saturn controller felt like a good decision, it was the Mario 64 of that console. The problem is that it was new IP in an age when Sega just really needed a Sonic game.

Looking at a Wiki all that team has cranked out the last seven years is Sonic games:

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_Team

Too little, too late.

 

[Lil Frier]

Now the Game Gear version was a steaming pile of horse manure.

You'd better not be talking about Sonic Chaos. That's another one I loved as a kid. That battery-sucking Game Gear was nice.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Awesome timing by Sega! With everyone having bought a PS4 or XBone and those that haven't probably opting for what their friends bought ..... so they can play together online .... this is a clear winner!

 

[mmntech]

You'd better not be talking about Sonic Chaos. That's another one I loved as a kid. That battery-sucking Game Gear was nice.

No, there was a Game Gear game just called Sonic Blast. They tried to pull Donkey Kong Land with pre-rendered sprites. The game looked and played like poop. The others in the GG Sonic series were decent games though. Except maybe Sonic 2, which probably has the hardest first level boss I've ever seen in a platformer.

 

[mmntech]

Since we're talking about Sonic and how bad he's become, I came across this video today. This guy is a game developer proposing how he'd change the Sonic franchise to make it better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ak3ebBep0&list=LL-FEMJ8yRzXKJiLq_D0gIBg&index=1

He argues that Sonic needs to be retooled for an adult demographic. Make games that cater to the original fanbase, without pandering to them or insulting their intelligence.

-Get rid of his dated 90s 'tude and make him more relatable and unsure of himself. Sort like what they did with Laura Croft in the Tomb Raider reboot.
-Keep the speed but give him a more diverse move set for free flowing, fast action.
-2D hand drawn art style like the new Rayman games
-New mechanic that allows Sonic to use his items and environment. Which allows the player to approach the game in different ways, and gives it a deeper puzzle aspect.

He makes a good case for it. Too bad none of these ideas will see the light of day.

As a side note, it annoys me that some people pronounce it Sea-Ga and not Say-Ga.

 

[Lil Frier]

I don't mind the idea of a multi-function attack idea, but this idea that he needs to be an emo kid or an expressionless blob turns me off. If you're going to turn him into something other than he is, make a new platformer IP.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Since we're talking about Sonic and how bad he's become, I came across this video today. This guy is a game developer proposing how he'd change the Sonic franchise to make it better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ak3ebBep0&list=LL-FEMJ8yRzXKJiLq_D0gIBg&index=1

He argues that Sonic needs to be retooled for an adult demographic. Make games that cater to the original fanbase, without pandering to them or insulting their intelligence.

-Get rid of his dated 90s 'tude and make him more relatable and unsure of himself. Sort like what they did with Laura Croft in the Tomb Raider reboot.
-Keep the speed but give him a more diverse move set for free flowing, fast action.
-2D hand drawn art style like the new Rayman games
-New mechanic that allows Sonic to use his items and environment. Which allows the player to approach the game in different ways, and gives it a deeper puzzle aspect.

He makes a good case for it. Too bad none of these ideas will see the light of day.

As a side note, it annoys me that some people pronounce it Sea-Ga and not Say-Ga.

They need to drop all characterization of him. Stop trying to give him personality beyond that of his motion in the game. And please don't try to give him a gritty realistic story. The last thing he needs is to follow anything that Tomb Raider did (seriously even if you think the most recent one was really good Tomb Raider as a franchise is a poster child for how not to handle a franchise, right there with Sonic in that regard). Don't tool him for any demographic. Just keep it simple. No need to try to setup some stupid story or anything, just keep it simple, you're a blue blur with spikes, go from point A to B quickly, occasionally fight a boss.

I'd agree. I've always thought that Sonic was a very weak platformer and frankly should not have even been compared to Mario. They were quite different in gameplay always, and Mario had far more diversity (you could play Mario games slow or fast, but Sonic really was only good at breakneck speed).

I like 2D art style but I think the more recent 2D Sonic games look good and I think fit well with the original games so I personally wouldn't want stylized 2D animation. The problem is not the graphics, it's the gameplay. The 3D Sonic games just went silly (even the first Adventure game had plenty of stuff that really didn't fit Sonic well).

There's definitely plenty of things they could do. One big one is his shoes. They could either make it gradually progression where he gets add-ons through the game, or make it so he has different shoes that give different abilities that you could switch on the fly.

I don't mind the idea of a multi-function attack idea, but this idea that he needs to be an emo kid or an expressionless blob turns me off. If you're going to turn him into something other than he is, make a new platformer IP.

They do need to make him more diverse. That's why Mario won out, there was diversity in gameplay which Sonic just plain did not really have. The problem is Sega tried to add some diversity by shoehorning in a bunch of other characters that just made things silly and often cumbersome.

 

[Aikouka]

Since we're talking about Sonic and how bad he's become, I came across this video today. This guy is a game developer proposing how he'd change the Sonic franchise to make it better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ak3ebBep0&list=LL-FEMJ8yRzXKJiLq_D0gIBg&index=1

I don't mind the art style in his concept, but I don't care for the redesign. If you want to appeal to the people that liked Sonic to begin with, you don't force change upon them. People tend to shy away from change. Personally, I don't mind Sonic's attitude, because it wasn't that big of a deal. For the most part, you never really experienced his attitude unless you let him sit idle during a stage... and the finger wagging on the title screen.

As long as the ring system works in the same way, I definitely don't agree with the whole backpack mechanic. His example has you dropping a power-up box on a button to open it up, but what if you just lost most of your rings and can't afford one? It would be like when I was playing Ori and the Blind Forest (one of the games that he showed in the video) and I literally could not progress because I didn't have enough Spirit to open a door. I had to wait on a small spirit restore respawn... a few times. It was painful and reeked of poor design.

Definitely not way past cool.

 

[lamedude]

You called it?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Shenmue 3 had to reach $2million by July 17 and it's not even a full day and they are at $2.4million

 

[cmdrdredd]

It's funny a friend and I were talking about Shenmue yesterday and the conversation turned to what if sega didn't go belly up in the hardware business. Back in 1994 Sega claimed 55% of all hardware sales. They owned the market with Nintendo only making up something like 40% of the dollar share. Anyway I didn't know this and my friend pointed it out that Sony approached both Nintendo and Sega for an add-on system. Both of them turned Sony down on the idea and Sony made the Playstation. I had originally believed it was only Nintendo who had the opportunity and declined. So if things worked out differently Playstation could have been the home of Sega and Sega wouldn't be the cesspool it is today (my opinion). Then again after the Dreamcast launched Microsoft approached Sega about putting Windows CE on the Dreamcast and then later (I didn't know this part) became interested in purchasing Sega. Again, like with the Sony deal they declined. Microsoft eventually released the XBOX. If things had worked out differently Sega could have had all the financial backing of Microsoft and XBOX would have been the home for all their games.

Kind of crazy what could have happened. We could have had Playstation and all that success be a part of Sega's history, or Nintendo's if they chose to go with Sony. Or the success of the Xbox could have been part of Sega's history as well. They went from top dog in the early-mid 90s to barely scraping by. Kind of sad. I think that if Sega knew then what we know now about Playstation that they would have done the deal and eventually have a joint Sony/Sega hardware platform. Or they could have sold to Microsoft and maybe there would be a chance for Xbox in Japan with Sega's name at the head of it in that market.

I just didn't know these things actually happened. Kind of interesting.