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Seems like many people severely underestimate what they'll need for retirement.

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agreed

but your perception of "poverty" is staggeringly skewed compared to roughly 80% of the world, I must say. :\


seriously, poverty?

I do consider myself to be self-sufficient to a great degree and only strive to be moreso, which involves doing many great things for myself (food is very important) which I really don't skimp on despite what you might assume.

But learning to do more with something that is quite standard in all corners of this country is a wonderful benefit for living in an era of civilization where roughly 90% of us aren't living in cow shit and praying to fairies if only to save us from some strange pox.

We are doing extremely well, you know. 😉

Sorry! :$ My "poverty" statement wasn't intended to be taken by you as a judgment about your personal situation - which I know virtually nothing about. It was meant to be a general suggestion on the right balance between enjoying life before retirement and enjoying life after retirement.

IMHO it doesn't make a great deal of sense to forego most of the pleasures of life in order to build a large enough nest egg to live like a 1%'er in retirement. Similarly, it doesn't make sense to plan for a lower standard of living after you retire. Maintaining your standard of living seems like it might be the best compromise.
 
IMHO it doesn't make a great deal of sense to forego most of the pleasures of life in order to build a large enough nest egg to live like a 1%'er in retirement. Similarly, it doesn't make sense to plan for a lower standard of living after you retire. Maintaining your standard of living seems like it might be the best compromise.

This is the balance I struggle to find. I like saving money, and my wife wants to go on vacations. Right now I am aiming for 20% (including match) into 401ks, two fully funded Roth IRAs, and about 11% into cash savings (emergency fund, home improvements, etc.).
 
Hell many people severely underestimate what they'll need to get by another week. That's why crazy high interest rate cash advance places exist. All it takes anymore is a severe enough illness, even with decent insurance, to break you.
I know an older guy that once owned his own lucrative business, became a millionaire and lost it all due to some heart problems. Insurance only helps so much. He's very limited now and can't work due to his heart so his saving grace was that he at least had his house paid off.
 
Sorry! :$ My "poverty" statement wasn't intended to be taken by you as a judgment about your personal situation - which I know virtually nothing about. It was meant to be a general suggestion on the right balance between enjoying life before retirement and enjoying life after retirement.

IMHO it doesn't make a great deal of sense to forego most of the pleasures of life in order to build a large enough nest egg to live like a 1%'er in retirement. Similarly, it doesn't make sense to plan for a lower standard of living after you retire. Maintaining your standard of living seems like it might be the best compromise.

Hah! no worries man, I didn't take it to mean that. I did mention early on that my perception of things and advice shouldn't be taken by anyone as a call to override your own happiness.

Certainly different individuals are going to have different definitions for happiness and comfort to themselves.

That rambling post of mine is simply a reflection of the general state of things and rather skewed perception that our current developed, absurdly comfortable and happy society has allowed us to enjoy now for several generations. Despite the political opinions of the day or what people pretend--we in the US are actually incredibly happy compared to previous generations. We have more than we ever have before and it's rather astounding that we can see messages to the contrary issuing forth from nebulous sources that have managed to convince a few people here and there that is some reflection of truth when only the slightest amount of investigation would reveal otherwise.

....anyhoo, I'm a pretty thrifty person in general but I have fancy tastes when it comes to food and some things but not much more than that. I thoroughly enjoy doing things on my own and being a molecular biologist for nearly 2 decades now, and having cooked my own food since high school, these sort of habits and skills really just come naturally. I like to spend money on fancy restaurants and crappy restaurants from time to time, but I find that I can very easily and very, very cheaply recreate successful approximations of the same class of food on a vanishingly thin budget--so I choose to do it. (vanishingly thin because I choose to make it so)

If I had maintained interest in going out boozing every other night and every weekend, and going to concerts frequently like I did in my college days, I would be spending tons more cash. I just lost interest in those things? Not everyone does, and no reason to change one's habits in such a way if that brings them happiness.

I love to travel and nothing is going to change that. I do prefer cheap ways to do it, obviously, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.

I'm fortunate to have lived in areas the the last 15 or so years where daily travel is cheap or nonexistent, but that is also a defined choice to live in places where I am both close to work (can pretty easily make CoS cheaper this way) and PT is plentiful.

We are irrational creatures and will always make irrational decisions in life and while I intend to make plenty of irrational choices and do so happily for the rest of my life, I still choose to reduce my irrational behavior in certain areas of life. 😉

I simply realized that my actual standard of living has, in reality, been really fricking cheap for many years and I was actually throwing away piles of money on things that brought me no greater happiness (simply eating out for lunch nearly ever day was a massive money sink). Both doing this and learning to be more efficient with all sorts of shopping (I likewise don't need a new .."wardrobe?" but every 2 or 3 years...again fortunate to work in a field where I can basically dress like a hobo nearly ever day...and it's more or less expected, unless you don't mind dumping HCL on your fancy new Ferragomos).
 
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They spend like 50% of their income on housing and will probably end up forgoing having a family.

I know, it's ridiculous. But there they are. And you know what? They choose this life, so bully for them.

I likewise chose to move away from there because such people and such lifestyles are profoundly uninteresting to me. 😀
 
This is the balance I struggle to find. I like saving money, and my wife wants to go on vacations. Right now I am aiming for 20% (including match) into 401ks, two fully funded Roth IRAs, and about 11% into cash savings (emergency fund, home improvements, etc.).

I have struggled with this greatly over time. Have been a severe pinny pincher most of my life. Lately, as the retirement funds build, I've bought a few more things and spend money a bit more freely (new 2016 Lexus ES350 to go along with my 13 year old Dodge Intrepid for example). One more kid to get through college (she starts in two years) and the majority of bigger life expenses (outside of medical emergencies and the likes) are out of the way. Maxing out all of current retirements (work simple IRA, two regular IRA's, wife's pension, some extra savings when available) until age 50, where I can go up a notch with the laws allowing more to be put in (if I even want to by then).
 
This is the balance I struggle to find. I like saving money, and my wife wants to go on vacations. Right now I am aiming for 20% (including match) into 401ks, two fully funded Roth IRAs, and about 11% into cash savings (emergency fund, home improvements, etc.).

I deal with this all the time too. Primarily because my wife wants to go on crazy expensive vacations every year or so. I mitigate that problem by finding out what activities she actually wants to do, and then finding much less expensive options for doing those activities or something comparable. For example, last year she wanted to go on a 1 week disney cruise with the kids. Cost for that (sans airfare) was over $8000! I countered with an alternative - 1 week vacation in Kissimee with a visit to Disney and several beaches. Cost was $4000 including airfare. Still not cheap - but it was a lot cheaper than the cruise. So it scratched my "save money" itch and her "vacation itch.

The best part is that my wife has never complained when come up with an alternative option for an outrageously expensive vacation. Primarily because the alternatives I manage to find turn out to be a lot of fun, and because it makes her happy to know that I am not stressed out about the cost while we are actually on vacation.

Also - if your wife is outdoorsy at all, take her on a national park tour. Its relatively cheap to fly to Salt Lake City, rent a car for a week, and hit 5-6 national parks. And you will see some absolutely amazing sights.
 
An added concern for those contemplating really early retirement has to be health care costs.

Yeah health care is a tough nut to crack. Been thinking about how to best deal with it as there will be a multi-year gap between when my wife plans to retire (we have health insurance through her work) and when we will be eligible for medicare. Hopefully there will be some reasonable option available at that time. The health care market is so out of control right now that big changes (good or bad) are almost a certainty within the next 15-20 years.

Worst comes to worst - I'll pay for insurance out of pocket. It will be expensive - but I should have the assets.
 
Yeah health care is a tough nut to crack. Been thinking about how to best deal with it as there will be a multi-year gap between when my wife plans to retire (we have health insurance through her work) and when we will be eligible for medicare. Hopefully there will be some reasonable option available at that time. The health care market is so out of control right now that big changes (good or bad) are almost a certainty within the next 15-20 years.

Worst comes to worst - I'll pay for insurance out of pocket. It will be expensive - but I should have the assets.

if neither of u are working, cant u get on obamacare + subsidies?
 
This is the balance I struggle to find. I like saving money, and my wife wants to go on vacations. Right now I am aiming for 20% (including match) into 401ks, two fully funded Roth IRAs, and about 11% into cash savings (emergency fund, home improvements, etc.).
It is a difficult struggle, especially when two people have different opinions on the right balance. Mathematically investing 15% and spending 85% means you get to retire with about the same amount of spending as while you were working. That, to me, is the optimal balance. It means you didn't struggle all through the prime years of your life only to find out that you are too old to really enjoy your piles of cash in your 70s, 80s, and 90s. It also means you get to retire without much financial to worry about.

I would say that you are probably over saving by quite a bit. Enjoy life more now. And if you happen to be that worried about having enough cash in retirement, work a year longer rather than trying to put too much away now.



Put it another way: I've seen three different couples (close friends of my parents) who saved every penny their whole life for retirement and then have a spouse get sick and die 1 to 3 years after retirement. They never once enjoyed any of their proceeds because by the time they retired, their illness made it impossible. Two of the couples spend well into the $300k/year range on failed trial cancer drugs. Drained the bank entirely and then the surviving spouse had next-to-nothing. The other case, they didn't throw their money away but the surviving spouse really isn't enjoying the massive pile of money without a partner. Wouldn't it have been better for these people to have enjoyed their money throughout life?
 
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This is the balance I struggle to find. I like saving money, and my wife wants to go on vacations. Right now I am aiming for 20% (including match) into 401ks, two fully funded Roth IRAs, and about 11% into cash savings (emergency fund, home improvements, etc.).

It's something we all struggle with. For me, super early retirement is not that important. If it was, I would ask my wife to work and save 100% of her income and would not go on many expensive vacations. Life is a journey and we have to remember to live for the present as well as save for the future. There's no substitute for youth and experiences, and memories made during our young and adult years will carry into retirement. So live a little. Treat your wife and yourself. Take her on nice vacations. Spurge a little and book the most expensive room and take her to the best restaurants. Amaze her and yourself. For me, it recharges my system and lets me see the big picture. That's to be healthy and happy.
 
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if neither of u are working, cant u get on obamacare + subsidies?

Yeah but the amount of subsidies would depend on whatever income (Assuming interest + dividends) they are living off of.

Plus, it is because of the ACA and the rising costs before and after ACA that the HSA's exist. So with ACA + subsidies + HSA it should be an effective solution for most people in that situation, but of course that isn't always the case.
 
i really do feel sorry for those people who have the means to spend money to travel and save for retirement, but instead save an extraordinary amount of money for retirement and don't travel. they don't know the experiences they are missing out on and it will be too late by the time they realize it.

i know a lot of people who simply don't have the luxury to do both, and can't even really afford to travel and save much, and they don't even have the option to take nice vacations.
 
I think you may have posted that before, but not to that level of detail. I had never thought of such a thing and didn't even know it was possible. Do you have one payout a year for taxes in NE? In IL you paid 2x a year. Once in June and once in September. Not sure how you would do that there.

Where I live now in Kentucky they are billed on Oct 15 and due Nov 15th. They don't start charging a penalty util February of the next year. I guess you could stall and pay the previous year in January of the current and then again on the current year in November. :hmm:
Where I live, there are two payments, due early April and early August. Thus, realistically, you have to mail in the check mid March and mid July. I started this out just by moving the March payment into a December payment. Just doing half of it. But, then when I had more money I started writing just one check.

I figured that I'd just simplify it here for illustration purposes rather than go into all the details about two payments.

Even if you can't do it with property taxes since you don't have cash to write the check earlier, you still can do it with donations. Put all donations that you would have donated during the year into a savings account. Then in January, donate it all.
 
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And (honestly) a $100k salary gets whittled away more quickly than you suppose. Let's say 25% for federal/state taxes and social security and a $1500/month rent. All that's left is $57k. You'd have to have some pretty whacked out priorities in life to limit spending on everything else to just $7k for the year (assuming this person isn't living in the 3 places in the country were the standards of living are low enough to make this doable 😛).

The problem with people making $100K is they try to keep up with the Joneses.
4 of my brothers and sisters make +/- $100K and they still live in modest houses and still drives Hondas.
I was fortunate togo over the $100K mark for the past couple of years and I never upgraded my lifestyle.
Last year, our total expenses were $35K for the 2 of us and that includes 3 vacations. 2 cruises and a trip to Cali/Vegas. We put away $55K plus an HSA account.(no 401K for me unfortunately). Like I stated, we never upgraded our lifestyle. No car payments. No cable. $50 cell phone bill. Our mortgage is dirt cheap.

As for taxes, it helped that we live in Florida.
My gross income was reduced by an HSA account and pre-tax medical insurance. Standard deductions for a married couple and traditional IRA further reduced taxable income. Ended up paying taxes on $72K which was $10K.
Its not the 30-35% that most people think although being a married couple helped with the taxes quite a bit. But then if I was still single, my taxes might be much higher but my spending would be a whole lot less. If I was single making what I did last 2 years, I could put away >$60K easy.
 
The problem with people making $100K is they try to keep up with the Joneses.
4 of my brothers and sisters make +/- $100K and they still live in modest houses and still drives Hondas.
I was fortunate togo over the $100K mark for the past couple of years and I never upgraded my lifestyle.
Last year, our total expenses were $35K for the 2 of us and that includes 3 vacations. 2 cruises and a trip to Cali/Vegas. We put away $55K plus an HSA account.(no 401K for me unfortunately). Like I stated, we never upgraded our lifestyle. No car payments. No cable. $50 cell phone bill. Our mortgage is dirt cheap.

As for taxes, it helped that we live in Florida.
My gross income was reduced by an HSA account and pre-tax medical insurance. Standard deductions for a married couple and traditional IRA further reduced taxable income. Ended up paying taxes on $72K which was $10K.
Its not the 30-35% that most people think although being a married couple helped with the taxes quite a bit.
But then if I was still single, my taxes might be much higher but my spending would be a whole lot less. If I was single making what I did last 2 years, I could put away >$60K easy.

This that and this.

It's all I've been saying.
 
i really do feel sorry for those people who have the means to spend money to travel and save for retirement, but instead save an extraordinary amount of money for retirement and don't travel. they don't know the experiences they are missing out on and it will be too late by the time they realize it.

i know a lot of people who simply don't have the luxury to do both, and can't even really afford to travel and save much, and they don't even have the option to take nice vacations.

tourists traps.
take pics that I will never review, EVER.
not much of a sight seeing guy.
meh
 
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