seeking advice : CCNA vs B.S.?

[IndyColtsFan]

hmm

I took a few semesters of CCNA classroom training.
I wonder if that Simulator, alongside picking up a few CCNA exam prep books, would prove to be a good idea.

I'm tempted to jump back into the IT world. But I've never been employed in the IT sector, and don't have a technical degree... even if I prepped myself and earned the Certification, would this at all really help in the job world? With no formal experience, and no formal classroom training after graduating high school (which is when I took the first four semesters of Cisco's classroom material)... is a Cert going to be enough?

Honestly? No. You'd be competing with people who have experience and the certs.

 

[punjabiplaya]

BS. You've got experience already, a BS will really help a lot more than CCNA. Much more flexible job options too.

 

[xSauronx]

I think we've had this discussion before, haven't we?

You know what I'm going to say, but I'll say it anyway. These shouldn't be mutually exclusive. You could do a CCNA in a year, tops. That won't prevent you from also working towards your BS. Please, seriously consider getting the BS. Many companies have this warped perception that a BA/BS is required for every position under the sun, and since you won't beat them, you might as well join them.

yeah i went that route...you can still get your CCNA, hell, plenty of places will want both, and then some, depending on the position.

 

[alkemyst]

Honestly? No. You'd be competing with people who have experience and the certs.

Attitude goes a long way here. I know some big names and they have hired really green people that showed a desire to learn more and were very people-centric.

In a lot of the networking realm, unlike coding; you are facing your customers.

Now, having a background in IS/IT to go along with it is really a bonus.

The biggest problem I have heard (probably due to braindump drones) is candidates can't speak to the certifications they hold.

If you can get a CCNA and know what spanning tree is about, how a PC/Switch/Router start talking once all are powered on, how routes work, how to subnet and given a network scope how to assign a simulated office space proper addresses, etc.

I am interviewing Monday. I have no networking background really save my CCNA three years ago. I have worked in IS/IT a long long time though and have proven my abilities to grasp new technology and conquer problems.

I do worry having an older cert and not much day to day use of it, I have been cramming these last few weeks.

 

[jteef]

isn't a CCNA still one of those book and a week to success kind of certs? hardly comparable to a BS. Still of all the certs out there the cisco tests are some that I value in my employees because the questions are posed in a way that challenges reasoning and problem solving ability rather than memorization of what the second letter in some nonsensical acronym that only the test giver has ever used in practice(ahem, CISSP). Cisco has *some* culpability in this matter, but there are enough problem solving type questions to compensate.

 

[timosyy]

I'm fresh out of college (so I have my B.S.), and currently working for a large financial/IT company with a rotation program (so I get to try out different branches of IT in a corporate/real-world setting). Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to pursue a CCNP or CISSP, so this thread is pretty relevant for me (Ideally I can land a network security engineer position for my last rotation, and get a feel for both worlds, so to speak).

Carry on.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I'd be down for a security position...one field I never really got a lot of experience in.

 

[mcmilljb]

I'm fresh out of college (so I have my B.S.), and currently working for a large financial/IT company with a rotation program (so I get to try out different branches of IT in a corporate/real-world setting). Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to pursue a CCNP or CISSP, so this thread is pretty relevant for me (Ideally I can land a network security engineer position for my last rotation, and get a feel for both worlds, so to speak).

Carry on.

Well you're going to be 4 years away from that CISSP - https://www.isc2.org/cissp-professional-experience.aspx

CCNP Security would help you learn security for Cisco's platforms - http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/le2/le37/le9/learning_certification_type_home.html

However getting any experience will pay the biggest dividends for your career.

 

[mcmilljb]

I'd be down for a security position...one field I never really got a lot of experience in.

It seems hard to get into the security field, but one time I had a company out of the blue contact me because they liked my resume. The initial position was a technical writer, but they liked me so much during the interview they were ready to offer me a position as an entry level information assurant analyst. I just wasn't interested in all the traveling involved since they were looking to put me on their navy contract. The main work of the team was to go to different sites and certify the systems met DoD security standards. It would have been a good way for me(or any one else) to get into the security field though. Particularly for the security clearance.

 

[timosyy]

Well you're going to be 4 years away from that CISSP - https://www.isc2.org/cissp-professional-experience.aspx

CCNP Security would help you learn security for Cisco's platforms - http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/le2/le37/le9/learning_certification_type_home.html

However getting any experience will pay the biggest dividends for your career.

Right, but you gotta start somewhere. Ideally I'd choose one to start looking into, then chose a rotation aligning with that goal to get the experience, and eventually obtain said certification. Since I'll have a job regardless, it's not immediately pressing, but I don't want to just sit around idle.

Thanks for the link to the CCNP Security, looks pretty intriguing to me.

 

[mcmilljb]

Right, but you gotta start somewhere. Ideally I'd choose one to start looking into, then chose a rotation aligning with that goal to get the experience, and eventually obtain said certification. Since I'll have a job regardless, it's not immediately pressing, but I don't want to just sit around idle.

Thanks for the link to the CCNP Security, looks pretty intriguing to me.

CISSP is an advanced certification because of the experience requirement. If you want to work towards certifications that are more obtainable for you, then you should consider the SSCP since it requires only one year of experience. Plus it gives you a short term goal.

https://www.isc2.org/sscp-how-to-certify.aspx

 

[adlep]

I've got my associates, got a Network Admin job, going on 3 years ... love it, but I am thinking long term here. I like networking, CCNA seems like the right path...but will not having my B.S. limit me a lot (I know to an extent it will)?

CCNA could be done in 1-2 years, and B.S. would take 5-7 years depending on my schedule at the U of M. U of M would also cost a lot more.

This is a fallback in case madgenius.com fails and doesn't make me millions

Advise me AT...I am unsure!

Ur going to school for CCNA?

How bout grabbing a reference book, some used Cisco gear, emulators and just going at it?

You DONT need "school" for CCNA.

 

[alkemyst]

isn't a CCNA still one of those book and a week to success kind of certs? hardly comparable to a BS. Still of all the certs out there the cisco tests are some that I value in my employees because the questions are posed in a way that challenges reasoning and problem solving ability rather than memorization of what the second letter in some nonsensical acronym that only the test giver has ever used in practice(ahem, CISSP). Cisco has *some* culpability in this matter, but there are enough problem solving type questions to compensate.

CCNA has never been a book and a week cert. In reality no cert is comparable to a college degree. They are two different goals. While a certification is a specific disipline oriented goal, a degree is a broad background in many disciplines with a focus on one.

This is why when I give recommendations I warn people using brain dumps and just studying to pass the test is not the answer unless all the cert means to you is a raise in a current job.

In a technical interview at the CCNA level, it's doubtful anyone will even ask "configure this"...that is all stuff you will end up looking up a lot of and doing research on deployments.

What they will ask you is "how do these things talk?", "If you wanted to do this, how could you accomplish it?"

In any test though there is a lot of academic memorization. Some do retain it if they use the technology, but yes this memorization only means you can memorize.

This is where higher thinking begins to show in advanced degrees. When you can take all that memorization of different philosophies and apply them to a single task.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Ur going to school for CCNA?

How bout grabbing a reference book, some used Cisco gear, emulators and just going at it?

You DONT need "school" for CCNA.

I wouldn't go to school, but sessions, specific to the cert would help (they have 16 sessions courses around here at the community college), which would probably speed up the process a bit, and I could take it right after that.

It seems hard to get into the security field, but one time I had a company out of the blue contact me because they liked my resume. The initial position was a technical writer, but they liked me so much during the interview they were ready to offer me a position as an entry level information assurant analyst. I just wasn't interested in all the traveling involved since they were looking to put me on their navy contract. The main work of the team was to go to different sites and certify the systems met DoD security standards. It would have been a good way for me(or any one else) to get into the security field though. Particularly for the security clearance.

Impressive ... do you have any certs? What's your background in mostly? I've actually applied to a few of these jobs, just becuase they seemed like a great foot in the door.

 

[classy]

Lol ccna, is mostly brain dump.

How much trivia can you memorize, it isn't to the point of actual working knowledge yet at that point.

Umm not its not. While getting my CCNA was not harder than my MCSE, there is a lot of stuff in CCNA. Networking, true managing large networks is a totally different animal than just configuring a router or two, maybe a handful of switches, throwing in a firewall. It is definately worth having though. I would say top 5 for certs. But like a lot folks have said, you can do both.

 

[classy]

Also for CCNA, trust me when I tell you, Packet Tracer by Cisco is the best training learning tool ever made. Its the real deal in everyway. You can find it .

 

[Texashiker]

I dont see a reason why you can not get your BS, get your CCNA, and and work a 40 hour a week job all at the same time.

I took night classes at the local college for 4 years, and worked a full time 40 - 50 hour a week job. It all depends on how dedicated you are.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I dont see a reason why you can not get your BS, get your CCNA, and and work a 40 hour a week job all at the same time.

I took night classes at the local college for 4 years, and worked a full time 40 - 50 hour a week job. It all depends on how dedicated you are.

That is my plan, i'll start back up at the U of M Twin Cities in Fall 2011...and try to get my CCNA done before that. I plan on taking an mds degree - multidisciplinary degree, as it's the only way I can complete my BAS online/distance/with very little AT the school.

I really do not want to get my BAS at an online school, I feel that B&M University is still looked highly upon, compared to online BAS degree programs.

 

[Texashiker]

I really do not want to get my BAS at an online school, I feel that B&M University is still looked highly upon, compared to online BAS degree programs.

I looked at some of those online college classes, and even tried one - their not for me. The classes were too expensive, and when I had a question, there was nobody to ask for help. By the end of the first month I was already falling behind, because I just did not understand the material.

Online classes might work for some people, but their not for everyone.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I looked at some of those online college classes, and even tried one - their not for me. The classes were too expensive, and when I had a question, there was nobody to ask for help. By the end of the first month I was already falling behind, because I just did not understand the material.

Online classes might work for some people, but their not for everyone.

Exactly, and I wouldn't mind going to the U if I have to .. it's only a few miles from me, only issue is that do not have a lot of night courses.

 

[mcmilljb]

Exactly, and I wouldn't mind going to the U if I have to .. it's only a few miles from me, only issue is that do not have a lot of night courses.

Do they offer any hybrid classes? My alma mater tried really hard to offer distance education classes particularly to graduate students. Basically you could go to the classroom like normal or watch from online. I did one my final semester. I just watched the recordings from home and then dropped my homework/projects off and showed up on test day. It was pretty nice.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Do they offer any hybrid classes? My alma mater tried really hard to offer distance education classes particularly to graduate students. Basically you could go to the classroom like normal or watch from online. I did one my final semester. I just watched the recordings from home and then dropped my homework/projects off and showed up on test day. It was pretty nice.

Slick, AFAIK they do not..but they may in the future. It'll take me 60 credits to graduate, so i've got time for them to adapt that technology.

 

[Analog]

our BS program gives you both.

 

[ViviTheMage]

what program is that?

would love an online security B.A.S fro ma B&M school.

 

[edro]

BS is infinitely better than a CCNA.
Not necessarily more useful, but definitely better in the eyes of most organizations.