SecuROM Discussion (old)

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

So, I see a problem with this. If you don't, and you think it's OK, maybe you should do a little more thinking. This seems like common sense to me, but common sense isn't very common; is it?

I don't see a problem with this, I have thought about it, and common sense tells me that some of you are blowing this way out of proportion.

If anything, this thread motivated me TO purchase BioShock for the PC...because at the end of the day, the developers crafted an amazing gameplay experience, and that is really all that matters.

You are disillusioned and out of touch with reality if you think DRM inconveniences pirates one little bit.

Perhaps not, but we wouldn't even be having this conversation about DRM were it not for pirates...funny how I don't remember this ever being a problem in the early 90s when PC gaming was just starting to build momentum, and the internet was still in its infancy.

Instead of focusing our collective geek rage on 2K games, maybe we should instead be upset with the cheap gamers out there who will shell out $3000 to build an amazing gaming rig, yet won't spend $50 on a game because they can get it for free on the internet.

Just look at mobile phones. What started as 'security' and 'privacy' is now exploited and abused as a "pay per every breath" industry. It's the RIAA's wettest dream come true. Tight control over content (DRM, HDCP, etc.) means nothing but bad news for consumers who will be at the mercy of what content providers allow them to do with the product they paid for, higher prices, lack of new content since they can charge you $5 a play/list/view of the same old stuff over and over again, etc.

Just wait for the network ready popcorn popper that connects to your Blu Ray player and the internet and then bills you surcharges at movie theater prices for popping popcorn in your own home if it detects that you are watching a new release at the same time, the motion detector that detects how many people are watching the movie so they can get $5 a head, etc...

I say again, look to the cell phone industry for the most corrupt nickel and dime model anyone has known, all made possible by DRM and tight monopolistic content control.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

So, I see a problem with this. If you don't, and you think it's OK, maybe you should do a little more thinking. This seems like common sense to me, but common sense isn't very common; is it?

I don't see a problem with this, I have thought about it, and common sense tells me that some of you are blowing this way out of proportion.

If anything, this thread motivated me TO purchase BioShock for the PC...because at the end of the day, the developers crafted an amazing gameplay experience, and that is really all that matters.

You are disillusioned and out of touch with reality if you think DRM inconveniences pirates one little bit.

Perhaps not, but we wouldn't even be having this conversation about DRM were it not for pirates...funny how I don't remember this ever being a problem in the early 90s when PC gaming was just starting to build momentum, and the internet was still in its infancy.

Instead of focusing our collective geek rage on 2K games, maybe we should instead be upset with the cheap gamers out there who will shell out $3000 to build an amazing gaming rig, yet won't spend $50 on a game because they can get it for free on the internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion

 

[Mana]

Edit: Nevermind

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: Sraaz
More companies need to follow Bethesda's lead. They knew Oblivion was going to be godly, and that it would sell like crazy, so what do they do? No key or protection or anything, just a simple CD check. basically, if a company knows they're making an amazing game, take off the protection, because it WILL sell awesome.

Not practical I guess, but I'd sure love it...

I wish more would go the THQ route. Both Company of Heroes and Stalker don't even need a CD in the drive! It is great being able to pop another disc in there or keep it empty to tone down the noise. Even better is when I want to load it back up for some casual fun; don't even have to get up, get the disc if I want to load it up.

 

[Beev]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: Sraaz
More companies need to follow Bethesda's lead. They knew Oblivion was going to be godly, and that it would sell like crazy, so what do they do? No key or protection or anything, just a simple CD check. basically, if a company knows they're making an amazing game, take off the protection, because it WILL sell awesome.

Not practical I guess, but I'd sure love it...

I wish more would go the THQ route. Both Company of Heroes and Stalker don't even need a CD in the drive! It is great being able to pop another disc in there or keep it empty to tone down the noise. Even better is when I want to load it back up for some casual fun; don't even have to get up, get the disc if I want to load it up.

Ooo, didn't know that. That's even better.

 

[fyleow]

..

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: Sraaz

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: Sraaz
More companies need to follow Bethesda's lead. They knew Oblivion was going to be godly, and that it would sell like crazy, so what do they do? No key or protection or anything, just a simple CD check. basically, if a company knows they're making an amazing game, take off the protection, because it WILL sell awesome.

Not practical I guess, but I'd sure love it...

I wish more would go the THQ route. Both Company of Heroes and Stalker don't even need a CD in the drive! It is great being able to pop another disc in there or keep it empty to tone down the noise. Even better is when I want to load it back up for some casual fun; don't even have to get up, get the disc if I want to load it up.

Ooo, didn't know that. That's even better.

It gets even better.. Galactic Civilizations II says you don't need to enter key unless you want updates..

..and that game had a surge of buyers for the same reason.


Corporate idiots think that we are not informed in internet age.

 

[zach0624]

I am pissed at all of the drm crap that is installed onto your computer (usually w/o your knowledge or is hidden as something else) especially the sony rootkits. I don't mind steam's drm because you can have it installed many times just as long as you don't play the same copy at the same time elsewhere and as far as I know steam has left my computer crap free.

 

[nova2]

Originally posted by: manowar821
because it says "SecuROM has detected a process explorer instance running in the background" or some BS. Apparently they don't want me seeing what's being run on my system
[/b]

yeah man, i *really* hate that.
sysinternals (now microsoft) process explorer rocks

securom has just gone way too far in this regard.

i might not care so much about it, but I don't have process explorer running, it was running awhile ago, and its off right now, but no, securom requires that you reboot your computer first and then you may proceed.

the fact that they decided to block proc explorer until reboot is just ludicrous.

another example of how ludicrous DRM decisions affect people differently.

they think by blocking one app that has features they dont like, will help? It seems like they're shoot first, ask later. It doesn't help - securom stills gets cracked.
When it happens to you, you might just love it too.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Just look at mobile phones. What started as 'security' and 'privacy' is now exploited and abused as a "pay per every breath" industry. It's the RIAA's wettest dream come true. Tight control over content (DRM, HDCP, etc.) means nothing but bad news for consumers who will be at the mercy of what content providers allow them to do with the product they paid for, higher prices, lack of new content since they can charge you $5 a play/list/view of the same old stuff over and over again, etc.

Well the beauty of a free market is that consumers can decide not to support a product or service if they deem the provider utilizes unfair policies, fees or prices.

The gaming community often laments that original content rarely gets a greenlight for development...that publishers choose to go the safe route, and push for dumbed down games with established IPs, developed to maximize cross platform revenues.

BioShock, from an immersive gameplay standpoint, satisfies the sometimes skeptical and hard to please PC gaming community...yet the SecuRom issue is tainting the release.

I chose to purchase BioShock because I did not perceive SecuRom as an overly intrusive measure implementing by 2K in the release...and I wanted to support a game that flies against development conventions in providing a gameplay experience that is immersive, fun and unique...one that mirrors two games from the past that I truly enjoyed: System Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

If the SecuRom issue outrages you to the point that you choose not to purchase the game, that is your choice and right as a consumer...similarly, I think it is understandable for gamers to voice their concern on this issue, which 2K appears to be responding to...but having just finished playing a few hours of BioShock, let say this...you are missing out on an incredible game.

 

[iamaelephant]

1 week for your post encouraging piracy. (before you edited it)

Rio Rebel

 

[0roo0roo]

meh, i was on the edge of buying bioshock, sorta sucked in by hype. my video card is barely adequate enough though.. 6600gt. this drm nonsense brought be back to my senses...guess i'm another lost customer.

 

[TBSN]

Well, I'm sufficiently afraid of secuROM to stay away from any of the games that have it, but is there a way to scan your computer to see if it is already installed? I want to know if it's on my system already, and if so how to get rid of it. I think everyone would benefit from that info...

Thanks!

 

[Schadenfroh]

is there a way to scan your computer to see if it is already installed? I want to know if it's on my system already

Microsoft's RootKit Revealer should detect it (at least the one that is used with NeverWinter Nights 2), Sony may have made it invisible since then.

If you want to remove it, email Sony for instructions.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Games I have recently purchased include Oblivion (plus KotN and Shivering Isles expansions), Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, Quake 4. Games I have recently pirated include C&C3, F.E.A.R. and TOCA Race Driver 3. I flat out refuse to buy software with invasive copy protection, and I flat out refuse to pirate software by developers with enough respect for gamers to leave out any of that shit. I almost bought Bioshock today but decided to go way out of my way to walk back home and check online to see what sort of DRM it uses. It's now queued up in uTorrent.

As far as I'm concerned, the DRM in Bioshock is the most insidious I have ever seen. I've never ever considered that devs would limit the number of installs available. This is disgusting and I wish more gamers had the fortitude to refuse to buy games on principle. Every time someone gives these fuckhead developers money they learn that it's okay to bend their customers over and fuck them. Stop buying these damn games people.

You raise a good point. We do vote with money. Too bad most of us are probably too "weak" or desperate for a new game to boycott anything. At least I am...

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Games I have recently purchased include Oblivion (plus KotN and Shivering Isles expansions), Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, Quake 4. Games I have recently pirated include C&C3, F.E.A.R. and TOCA Race Driver 3. I flat out refuse to buy software with invasive copy protection, and I flat out refuse to pirate software by developers with enough respect for gamers to leave out any of that shit. I almost bought Bioshock today but decided to go way out of my way to walk back home and check online to see what sort of DRM it uses. It's now queued up in uTorrent.

As far as I'm concerned, the DRM in Bioshock is the most insidious I have ever seen. I've never ever considered that devs would limit the number of installs available. This is disgusting and I wish more gamers had the fortitude to refuse to buy games on principle. Every time someone gives these fuckhead developers money they learn that it's okay to bend their customers over and fuck them. Stop buying these damn games people.

You raise a good point. We do vote with money. Too bad most of us are probably too "weak" or desperate for a new game to boycott anything. At least I am...

the problem with this is that can force the studios to go either way
low sales on a game that has gotten such rave reviews, may indicate, to the execs at least, that piracy is rampant. Even if it isn't, they may think that and then newer titles have even more viral copy protection methods. High sales may also let them know that they don't need insane copy protection. But it can go the other way too. It's one where we just don't win, except by getting in touch with the publisher and demanding the removal of the copy protection rootkit. That is really the only way we can do that.

 

[NicColt]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Better learn to use Linux then, and give up gaming. DRM isn't going away, unfortunately.
There are far too many people out there who simply don't care and will install the latest piece of DRM laden software regardless.

DRM is going away if you vote with your wallet, a very good example if X3 by Eggosoft.

I will be boycotting everything that's DRM except stuff like checkdisk, simply vote with your wallet.

Well the beauty of a free market is that consumers can decide not to support a product or service if they deem the provider utilizes unfair policies, fees or prices.

If the SecuRom issue outrages you to the point that you choose not to purchase the game, that is your choice and right as a consumer

The problem with this is that they don't tell you that your buying 3rd party malware with the game. Do you think that if they had a big warning on the box that it includes this type of copy protection that it would sell ? or course not so they try to hide it.

Originally posted by: NotQuiteAPCGuru
I'm tired of everyone and everything trying to sneak crap into my computer that I work so hard to make exactly what I want, and I believe most of the frustration sets there. It's pointless, and you're only going to give the intelligent people who know what you're up to a reason to A. Not buy your crap., or B. Pirate your crap and not give you a dime., or C. Start studying how to screw your company out of your product like how you screwed the consumers, and giving crackers/coders/hackers more manpower, so to speak.

very well said and let me add to this DRM insanity

1 - The game has already been pirated this is fact.

2 - This rootkit malware drm crap is only affecting loyal and paying customers

3 - It makes absolutely no sense at all. People who want to buy will buy it people who will want a pirate copy will get a pirate copy.

I just got Quake 4, I could have d/l it but I didn't EBGames wanted to sell me a used copy but I didn't I purchased the full legal version. Is that so hard for game companies to understand.

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
For example, FEAR's freeware demo installs SecuROM on your system.

Yea you don't want to be pirating those free downloadable demos now...

Originally posted by: CKent
Sony ftw....

Seriously guys, stop buying thier garbage products and you don't have to worry about this crap. Every sale they make tells them that treating customers like shit is profitable. Don't be stupid; boycott them.

I'm with ya... I was going to buy bioshock but now I'll pass.

Has anyone seen the 2K Forums on this man it's nasty.

 

[iamaelephant]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Games I have recently purchased include Oblivion (plus KotN and Shivering Isles expansions), Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, Quake 4. Games I have recently pirated include C&C3, F.E.A.R. and TOCA Race Driver 3. I flat out refuse to buy software with invasive copy protection, and I flat out refuse to pirate software by developers with enough respect for gamers to leave out any of that shit. I almost bought Bioshock today but decided to go way out of my way to walk back home and check online to see what sort of DRM it uses. It's now queued up in uTorrent.

As far as I'm concerned, the DRM in Bioshock is the most insidious I have ever seen. I've never ever considered that devs would limit the number of installs available. This is disgusting and I wish more gamers had the fortitude to refuse to buy games on principle. Every time someone gives these fuckhead developers money they learn that it's okay to bend their customers over and fuck them. Stop buying these damn games people.

You raise a good point. We do vote with money. Too bad most of us are probably too "weak" or desperate for a new game to boycott anything. At least I am...

the problem with this is that can force the studios to go either way
low sales on a game that has gotten such rave reviews, may indicate, to the execs at least, that piracy is rampant. Even if it isn't, they may think that and then newer titles have even more viral copy protection methods. High sales may also let them know that they don't need insane copy protection. But it can go the other way too. It's one where we just don't win, except by getting in touch with the publisher and demanding the removal of the copy protection rootkit. That is really the only way we can do that.

That argument makes no sense. If that were the case then Supreme Commander, Oblivion, X3, Company of Heroes and numerous other games with lax copy protection schemes would not have sold well, but they all exceeded expectations. As for Imp's comment about people being too weak to resist buying the games, well, people like you can go jump into a fucking lake. You people are the reason game companies can fuck their customers with impunity.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: iamaelephant

That argument makes no sense. If that were the case then Supreme Commander, Oblivion, X3, Company of Heroes and numerous other games with lax copy protection schemes would not have sold well, but they all exceeded expectations. As for Imp's comment about people being too weak to resist buying the games, well, people like you can go jump into a fucking lake. You people are the reason game companies can fuck their customers with impunity.

No problem I like lakes and I'm a pretty good swimmer. Maybe you aren't if you think people like me would drown...

Let me guess, on here, you preach about not letting companies screw you over, but in reality, you own many pieces of copy protected software. Most of your "type" of people are all talk and hypocrites. "Oh, we'll boycott this.", "Oh, we'll boycott that."... "Wooo. we're the next rights revolution." So where does your "kind" draw the line? If you were as tough as you sound, you wouldn't even buy a single piece of software that requires an activation code or cd check. Or do you draw the line after CD checks cause it's more convenient for you? Hey, you may say it's minor, but if anything it is even more cumbersome than activating online or a CD key. Life's too short for this bullsh!t.

Oh and buddy, CHILL the f*ck OUT. My comment was in jest and self-deprecating. If you weren't such a zealot, you'd have seen that.

Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Games I have recently purchased include Oblivion (plus KotN and Shivering Isles expansions), Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, Quake 4. Games I have recently pirated include C&C3, F.E.A.R. and TOCA Race Driver 3. I flat out refuse to buy software with invasive copy protection, and I flat out refuse to pirate software by developers with enough respect for gamers to leave out any of that shit.

Awesome. So you won't boycott them for real. You'll just steal from them cause it's convenient. "I hate your copy protection, but I like your product enough to steal it. I won't pay for it, but I will play it. The rest of you idiots who will pay for it, jump in a lake."

Don't get upset buddy, you made it personal.

 

[coloumb]

Oblivion didn't ship with copy protection, correct? And how many copies did it sell? Quite a few according to this website:

Oblivion Sales records

Rather than wasting time, money, and resources on copy protection schemes which are far too easy to bypass, gaming companies should spend that money on making a better product.

If companies still want some form of copy protection, then use the "enter the code printed on the cd cover" method. No DRM, no SecuROM, nada.