Securing our border

[boomerang]

Plus, it ignores that fact that most illegals came here legally, and have over stayed their visas. How's securing the border going to fix that?

Most? The numbers I'm seeing are 40% and that number is in question. Regardless, it's an indicator of a government that cannot follow up on something that should be fairly simple.

40% is not a majority and once they've overstayed they have become criminals. Certainly not people we need here.

 

[swilli89]

Most? The numbers I'm seeing are 40% and that number is in question. Regardless, it's an indicator of a government that cannot follow up on something that should be fairly simple.

40% is not a majority and once they've overstayed they have become criminals. Certainly not people we need here.

Amen brother

 

[Nebor]

Oh get a clue. You freaking stole your land from those who were already living there.

Yeah, and it's a poor thief who gets robbed himself.

 

[Nebor]

So, a wall isn't comparable to a wall? Doesn't really matter why either is built.....they're to keep the sides separate and prevent people from crossing it.

Just a quick question....how much are we willing to spend on border security anyway?

Bush spent $47B in his first administration on border security, $60B in his second, and Obama spent $73B in his first administration.

In negotiating Bush's failed 2007 Immigration Reform deal, Republican lawmakers demanded that President Bush deploy four drones to scan the border, build 105 radar and camera towers, raise the number of Border Patrol agents to 20,000, and erect 670 miles of fencing. Today, the U.S. has 10 border drones, 300 towers, and 21,394 agents—18,500 of them stationed on the U.S.-Mexico border. Fencing now covers 651 miles of the border.


So, how much more do we spend? We averaged $18.25B a year on border security during Obama's first administration.....how much more do we spend?

Continue to increase funding until the problem is fixed. Additional funds will bring increased innovation. We could surveill the entire Mexican border with stationary blimps for less than $70B. The same blimps we use for similar purposes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[ivwshane]

Most? The numbers I'm seeing are 40% and that number is in question. Regardless, it's an indicator of a government that cannot follow up on something that should be fairly simple.

40% is not a majority and once they've overstayed they have become criminals. Certainly not people we need here.

Yeah 40% that's no big deal. Silly lefty!

/s


Way to miss the point moron.

 

[First]

40% is not a majority and once they've overstayed they have become criminals. Certainly not people we need here.

lol.

I think pretty much every reasonable person would take an "Illegal!" that overstayed his visa over, say, a redneck 'merican turdbloosom like yourself. ;p

 

[Humpy]

Continue to increase funding until the problem is fixed. Additional funds will bring increased innovation. We could surveill the entire Mexican border with stationary blimps for less than $70B. The same blimps we use for similar purposes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Just keep spending money like we do on the War on Terrorism and the War on Drugs. Be sure not to bother figuring out what exactly the problem is or how we will know when it's fixed.

Simple people love the idea of a big wall for some reason. "Just build a big ol' wall!" they say. What do you do with the people who climb over the wall? Turns out you do the exact same thing that you do with the people who climb over a fence, or step over a line.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Just keep spending money like we do on the War on Terrorism and the War on Drugs. Be sure not to bother figuring out what exactly the problem is or how we will know when it's fixed.

Simple people love the idea of a big wall for some reason. "Just build a big ol' wall!" they say. What do you do with the people who climb over the wall? Turns out you do the exact same thing that you do with the people who climb over a fence, or step over a line.

The problem is that unfortunately the problem is Mexico and Latin America in general, and that would cost way more to fix than securing the border.

Most of the responses to this thread indicate that I'm guessing the general consensus is that we shouldn't do it because it wouldn't work, which seems disingenuous to me. I get that some will get through, but if you can stop 75% of the migrants from entering that is a huge disincentive for people to not spend their life savings making the attempt.

And I do agree that we desperately need immigration reform, and I'm not opposed to blanket amnesty to those already here barring they haven't committed serious crimes and start to pay taxes. I would only agree to that however if there was a solution to stemming the flow of any more (other than through reformed legal methods).

 

[feralkid]

Continue to increase funding until the problem is fixed. Additional funds will bring increased innovation. We could surveill the entire Mexican border with stationary blimps for less than $70B. The same blimps we use for similar purposes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Says the crazy man who thinks we should invade Iran, Now!

Why do you think no one takes you seriously?

Furthermore, aerostats were already tried on the border...work about as well as a wall does; you go under one, over the other.



.

 

[Humpy]

...the problem is Mexico and Latin America in general...

😕

You must mean the conditions in Latin America that drive people to relocate?

I don't think those issues can logically be limited to just Latin America. Essentially then the problem is that most of the rest of the world has a lower standard of living than the US.

From what little I know of US history we haven't been too hesitant in harshly dealing with actual, and often only perceived, threats. I think if there was a need to secure our borders it would happen with out much discussion, i.e. piles of bodies on their side of the line with no shits given.

Since that's not happening we know there isn't much of an actual problem. What's left is little more than convenient political talking points where any action on either side of the argument is of little consequence.

 

[Nebor]

Says the crazy man who thinks we should invade Iran, Now!

Why do you think no one takes you seriously?

Furthermore, aerostats were already tried on the border...work about as well as a wall does; you go under one, over the other.



.

You combine the aerostats with a massive surge of federalized National Guard troops. Obviously a blimp alone isn't going to stop anyone. You can't possibly tell me that it's ok to spend $100B a year in Iraq but not to secure our border.

 

[Nebor]

How can you call yourself a nation if you can't control your borders? I simply don't see how you can oppose controlling our borders. You think everyone in the world should be able to come and go without vetting? It just doesn't matter who comes into the United States? What if a group of 70,000 people were crossing the Arizona border? Should they be stopped? Should a group of 70? What about one guy, but he's wearing a suicide vest and heading for Phoenix?

It's amazing to me that the same people who believe that all problems have government solutions (poverty, health care, etc) throw their hands up in the air when faced with how to secure a border.

 

[shira]

So once again we are going to start hearing more and more about securing our (southern) border now that the presidential campaigns are in full swing. I disagree with Republicans on a lot (dems too though), but what exactly is the argument against it? Doing so seems like such a no brainier, but obviously there is pushback. Why shouldn't we?

The number of illegal immigrants entering the U.S. annually is at its lowest level in over 20 years. It's a non-issue, especially in the context of much greater domestic problems facing America, such as our crumbling infrastructure, the falling quality of life of the middle class, and the grossly wasteful war on drugs. So anyone attempting to make "increasing border security" a campaign issue is just a demagogue.

As the Department of Homeland Security continues to pour money into border security, evidence is emerging that illegal immigration flows have fallen to their lowest level in at least two decades. The nation’s population of illegal immigrants, which more than tripled, to 12.2 million, between 1990 and 2007, has dropped by about 1 million, according to demographers at the Pew Research Center.

A key — but largely overlooked — sign of these ebbing flows is the changing makeup of the undocumented population. Until recent years, illegal immigrants tended to be young men streaming across the Southern border in pursuit of work. But demographic data show that the typical illegal immigrant now is much more likely someone who is 35 or older and has lived in the United States for a decade or more.

 

[boomerang]

How can you call yourself a nation if you can't control your borders? I simply don't see how you can oppose controlling our borders. You think everyone in the world should be able to come and go without vetting? It just doesn't matter who comes into the United States? What if a group of 70,000 people were crossing the Arizona border? Should they be stopped? Should a group of 70? What about one guy, but he's wearing a suicide vest and heading for Phoenix?

It's amazing to me that the same people who believe that all problems have government solutions (poverty, health care, etc) throw their hands up in the air when faced with how to secure a border.

I think it's a mistake to think they feel it's an insurmountable problem. They don't see it as a problem. There is an inherent ignorance in the positions the left holds so near and dear. On one hand they declare a war on poverty, ($1 Trillion and counting with no results) and on the other hand they so desperately want to import poor unskilled people into the nation. Sure, they wrap it all up in some corporate greed BS that makes it up all neat and tidy for them, but at the heart of it, it's just juvenile thinking with no thought put into the consequences of the actions.

This is what happens when bleeding hearts are allowed to run amok, unfettered, with no discipline and no checks or balances being imposed. At some point will we ever wise up and clamp down on this behavior? I think not. I think we are doomed to a fate orchestrated by the left based in what they feel are the best of intentions. When it all goes to shit, they have their whipping boys to blame, Republicans. That's going to make them feel better but it's not going to straighten out the mess they created.

If one feels that teenagers need some rules to follow, some responsibilities that must be met, some goals that need to be achieved, some respect that must be given then it's not to much to demand from the left that they get started on the road to thinking like adults. We can no longer afford to humor them because there is too much at stake.

 

[Genx87]

How can you call yourself a nation if you can't control your borders? I simply don't see how you can oppose controlling our borders. You think everyone in the world should be able to come and go without vetting? It just doesn't matter who comes into the United States? What if a group of 70,000 people were crossing the Arizona border? Should they be stopped? Should a group of 70? What about one guy, but he's wearing a suicide vest and heading for Phoenix?

It's amazing to me that the same people who believe that all problems have government solutions (poverty, health care, etc) throw their hands up in the air when faced with how to secure a border.

You understand that controlling our borders as a nation doesnt require a wall be put up right? Further controlling a border as a nation usually means controlling territory. In other words not letting another nation take land from it without a response. Our borders have been the most secure in the world over the past ~200 years since the end of the the war of 1812 without walls. And I don't see that situation changing in the coming decades given our military and economic strength.

 

[Genx87]

I think it's a mistake to think they feel it's an insurmountable problem. They don't see it as a problem. There is an inherent ignorance in the positions the left holds so near and dear. On one hand they declare a war on poverty, ($1 Trillion and counting with no results) and on the other hand they so desperately want to import poor unskilled people into the nation. Sure, they wrap it all up in some corporate greed BS that makes it up all neat and tidy for them, but at the heart of it, it's just juvenile thinking with no thought put into the consequences of the actions.

This is what happens when bleeding hearts are allowed to run amok, unfettered, with no discipline and no checks or balances being imposed. At some point will we ever wise up and clamp down on this behavior? I think not. I think we are doomed to a fate orchestrated by the left based in what they feel are the best of intentions. When it all goes to shit, they have their whipping boys to blame, Republicans. That's going to make them feel better but it's not going to straighten out the mess they created.

If one feels that teenagers need some rules to follow, some responsibilities that must be met, some goals that need to be achieved, some respect that must be given then it's not to much to demand from the left that they get started on the road to thinking like adults. We can no longer afford to humor them because there is too much at stake.

You understand this country was built on immigration right? It isnt like anybody on this board unless they have native american blood in the family history didnt descend from an immigrant from somewhere.

It just baffles the mind to listen to people act like immigration is an issue that requires a wall be built to stop it. It doesnt make any logical sense given our history. And especially when we start looking at the native population growth rates. Immigration is the only way to keep this system churning forward.

 

[ivwshane]

Lol! This dumbass has the audacity to blame the left despite the fact that the largest amnesty was ushered in by a republican! He has the gall to blame the left when it's was the senate democrats, 54 of them plus 14 repubs that actually passed immigration reform that not only dealt with the existing illegals/legal immigrants but it also dealt with border security.

Of course this stupid fuck is impervious to facts and will continue his spewing of diarrhea of the mouth of right wing lies. But that's just the kind of piece of shit boomerang is.

I think it's a mistake to think they feel it's an insurmountable problem. They don't see it as a problem. There is an inherent ignorance in the positions the left holds so near and dear. On one hand they declare a war on poverty, ($1 Trillion and counting with no results) and on the other hand they so desperately want to import poor unskilled people into the nation. Sure, they wrap it all up in some corporate greed BS that makes it up all neat and tidy for them, but at the heart of it, it's just juvenile thinking with no thought put into the consequences of the actions.

This is what happens when bleeding hearts are allowed to run amok, unfettered, with no discipline and no checks or balances being imposed. At some point will we ever wise up and clamp down on this behavior? I think not. I think we are doomed to a fate orchestrated by the left based in what they feel are the best of intentions. When it all goes to shit, they have their whipping boys to blame, Republicans. That's going to make them feel better but it's not going to straighten out the mess they created.

If one feels that teenagers need some rules to follow, some responsibilities that must be met, some goals that need to be achieved, some respect that must be given then it's not to much to demand from the left that they get started on the road to thinking like adults. We can no longer afford to humor them because there is too much at stake.

 

[ivwshane]

You understand this country was built on immigration right? It isnt like anybody on this board unless they have native american blood in the family history didnt descend from an immigrant from somewhere.

It just baffles the mind to listen to people act like immigration is an issue that requires a wall be built to stop it. It doesnt make any logical sense given our history. And especially when we start looking at the native population growth rates. Immigration is the only way to keep this system churning forward.

His mind is too fucking simple to get concepts that aren't black and white.

 

[fskimospy]

You understand this country was built on immigration right? It isnt like anybody on this board unless they have native american blood in the family history didnt descend from an immigrant from somewhere.

It just baffles the mind to listen to people act like immigration is an issue that requires a wall be built to stop it. It doesnt make any logical sense given our history. And especially when we start looking at the native population growth rates. Immigration is the only way to keep this system churning forward.

It's also notable that the guy calling liberals teenagers has a plan that's basically "LET'S JUST BUILD A BIG WALL", which is about the most crude and juvenile response possible.

 

[JockoJohnson]

You understand this country was built on immigration right? It isnt like anybody on this board unless they have native american blood in the family history didnt descend from an immigrant from somewhere.

It just baffles the mind to listen to people act like immigration is an issue that requires a wall be built to stop it. It doesnt make any logical sense given our history. And especially when we start looking at the native population growth rates. Immigration is the only way to keep this system churning forward.

Immigration is not an issue. ILLEGAL immigration is an issue. Are you intentionally twisting words?

I have no problem with Mexicans coming into the country legally. Build a center if one doesn't exist, make them form a line and document them.

You are right, we need immigration. But we need to control it so we know who is coming in.

 

[fskimospy]

How can you call yourself a nation if you can't control your borders? I simply don't see how you can oppose controlling our borders. You think everyone in the world should be able to come and go without vetting? It just doesn't matter who comes into the United States? What if a group of 70,000 people were crossing the Arizona border? Should they be stopped? Should a group of 70? What about one guy, but he's wearing a suicide vest and heading for Phoenix?

Nobody opposes controlling our borders. That's a straw man. Additionally, it's not a binary proposition. The question is never "should we control our borders?" as controlling them completely is utterly impossible. The question is "how much control should we exert over our borders?" Once you look at it that way, all your questions should be answered.

It's amazing to me that the same people who believe that all problems have government solutions (poverty, health care, etc) throw their hands up in the air when faced with how to secure a border.

People don't think it's impossible to impose more security on the border, we just think it's a waste of time and money. You're welcome to want to spend billions of dollars hiring more people to pour concrete and patrol the southern border, but I'd rather hire people to build more roads, bridges, etc.

Everything in public policy should be strongly influenced by ROI. It's not the only consideration, but it's a huge one. The ROI on building a southern border wall is horrible, so let's not do it.

 

[Genx87]

Immigration is not an issue. ILLEGAL immigration is an issue. Are you intentionally twisting words?

I have no problem with Mexicans coming into the country legally. Build a center if one doesn't exist, make them form a line and document them.

You are right, we need immigration. But we need to control it so we know who is coming in.

I lump them all together for this argument. Because quite frankly if we fixed our immigration law people wouldnt be flowing over the border like they do now in an illegal manner. Instead it would be orderly and people would come in through a much smaller more controlled area. And thus any argument anybody has for a wall is out the window. And illegals would become citizens instead of hiding in the shadows and creating a 15-20 million underclass that are outside our society.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Lol! This dumbass has the audacity to blame the left despite the fact that the largest amnesty was ushered in by a republican! He has the gall to blame the left when it's was the senate democrats, 54 of them plus 14 repubs that actually passed immigration reform that not only dealt with the existing illegals/legal immigrants but it also dealt with border security.

Of course this stupid fuck is impervious to facts and will continue his spewing of diarrhea of the mouth of right wing lies. But that's just the kind of piece of shit boomerang is.

I agree with you. Republicans want the cheap labor. If they actually did care, there would be penalties for companies hiring illegals. But there is no penalty or enforcement. Until Republicans actually do something, all I see is just a bunch of lip service to their base.

 

[JockoJohnson]

I lump them all together for this argument. Because quite frankly if we fixed our immigration law people wouldnt be flowing over the border like they do now in an illegal manner. Instead it would be orderly and people would come in through a much smaller more controlled area. And thus any argument anybody has for a wall is out the window. And illegals would become citizens instead of hiding in the shadows and creating a 15-20 million underclass that are outside our society.

Makes sense. A wall does not. Spend the money and put it towards refining our immigration process. I know it sounds simple here but makes you wonder WTF politicians and lobbyists are doing that we can't do that now in some form.

 

[rudeguy]

I agree with you. Republicans want the cheap labor. If they actually did care, there would be penalties for companies hiring illegals. But there is no penalty or enforcement. Until Republicans actually do something, all I see is just a bunch of lip service to their base.

Please post links/references supporting that any of what you have just said is true.