Secure Afghanistan by Distributing Kalashnikovs to the Populace

[llee]

I know this sounds radical, but what do you guys think of having our troops pull out of combat zones in Afghanistan and airdropping hundreds of thousands of kalashnikovs and ammo for the populace? The right to bear arms certainly worked for America's fight for independence. Maybe it'll work for the Afghanis.

Variations of the plan could include distributing guns to women only or to minorities that have been oppressed by Al Qaida/Taliban influence in the past. And lastly, I'm not joking.

 

[Sinsear]

You could just drop thousands of bombs...

 

[Elias824]

They already have thousands of AK's the problem is that one side would be organized and one side would be a bunch of rabble with infighting.

 

[trenchfoot]

They will sell or barter the weapons to the extremists for very essential things like Xboxes, Wii's, wide screen satellite TV's and contraband porno vid's, and the extremists will in turn use those weapons against those very folks who airdropped those weapons in to begin with.

 

[manimal]

getting weapons is not an issue in that part of the world..

education, food, hope, peace is what they need..

 

[Lemon law]

getting weapons is not an issue in that part of the world..

education, food, hope, peace is what they need..

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A big bingo exactly for manimal, but sadly we came into Afghanistan with a idea that we could kill all opposition with our so called war on terrorism that has sadly had the net effect of creating more terrorism than we had be before.

Because we are unable to grasp the concept that terrorism is but a symptom and not a root cause of social problems in a society,

Start fixing the social problems and you reduce terrorism, simple at that. But still the Taliban has the wrong ideals for the future of Afghanistan, at least IMHO. But to change hearts and minds, Nato must demonstrate it has the right ideas. And that we have totally failed at because we want end up making social problems worse as all we end up doing is trying to kill our way out of a problem.

But now our OP offers only the bat shit crazy idea, flood the zone with weapons so everyone in Afghanistan will kill each other off. Which is sadly stupid, we want to aid the
ordinary people in Afghanistan, and the OP's plan would best aid the most thuggish and anti-Western elements in Afghan society.

 

[llee]

The western approach to combating terrorism hasn't gotten us anywhere in the past decade. Although we've effected regime changes, many people still hate Americans in the Middle East. The aid that we've sent to countries like North Korea or communities in Afghanistan is often misappropriated or confiscated for mal-intent. Rejoicing about aid and education makes us feel good inside, but it does nothing for the people who must live under extremist shadow rule. So my reason why I'm suggesting military aid for the people in Afghanistan is so that the populace will have enablers, methods to fight the taliban.

When you look at Russia's approach to the conflict with Islamic extremists in Chechnya, they took a hard-lined, no compromises approach, even sacrificing some of their own citizens for a greater cause. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I believe that citizens fighting for their country en masse will end a conflict that relief aid and marauding armies have been unable to.

 

[IronWing]

The western approach to combating terrorism hasn't gotten us anywhere in the past decade. Although we've effected regime changes, many people still hate Americans in the Middle East. The aid that we've sent to countries like North Korea or communities in Afghanistan is often misappropriated or confiscated for mal-intent. Rejoicing about aid and education makes us feel good inside, but it does nothing for the people who must live under extremist shadow rule. So my reason why I'm suggesting military aid for the people in Afghanistan is so the populace does have enablers, methods to fight the taliban.

When you look at Russia's approach to the conflict with Islamic extremists in Chechnya, they took a hard-lined, no compromises approach, even sacrificing some of their own citizens for a greater cause. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I think citizens fighting for their country will end a conflict that relief aid and marauding armies couldn't.

Between us, the Russians, the Pakis, the Iranians, the Saudis, and who knows who else we have saturated Afghanistan with weapons for the last forty years. Peace and prosperity have not followed the gun.

 

[Zebo]

getting weapons is not an issue in that part of the world..

education, food, hope, peace is what they need..

Read Quran. You'll understand why that's impossible. It's like a perfect reciprocal relationship. More fundi they are the poorer they are (save accidents of geology like Saudi Arabia) Without oil, it would look like Somalia.

1. Mental Submission (Do not question only the Umma matters never exercise your own judgment or reason, for Allah Knows Best.)
2. Inshallah Fatalism (for God will or will not provide why strive?)
3. Victor and vanquished doctrine

Are all recipes for fail

What they need is lose their religion. Course that's deadly.

(and Zebo needs spelling lessons. Loose)

 

[llee]

Read Quran. You'll understand why that's impossible. It's like a perfect reciprocal relationship. More fundi they are the poorer they are (save accidents of geology like Saudi Arabia)

Can you explain in brief?

 

[Nebor]

What do you think that would accomplish? The ones that we've already given weapons to (the ANSF) shirk responsibility constantly, refuse to patrol and flee from combat.

Most people don't get it. What we're offering them, they don't want. So they're never going to fight for it. Maybe if we offered them some sort of genetically enhanced goats that were hardier, fatter and grew quicker...

 

[2Xtreme21]

Read Quran. You'll understand why that's impossible. It's like a perfect reciprocal relationship. More fundi they are the poorer they are (save accidents of geology like Saudi Arabia) Without oil, it would look like Somalia.

1. Mental Submission (Do not question only the Umma matters never exercise your own judgment or reason, for Allah Knows Best.)
2. Inshallah Fatalism (for God will or will not provide why strive?)
3. Victor and vanquished doctrine

Are all recipes for fail

What they need is lose their religion. Course that's deadly.

(and Zebo needs spelling lessons. Loose)

Your three items sound pretty prevalent in all the Abrahamic holy books. I'm not one to argue if you're saying it's a recipe for failure in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, but it sounds to me like you're trying to make an all-too-typical bigoted slam on Islam being the root of all these problems.

 

[Zebo]

Yeah, Thank goodness we had enlightenment (Age of Reason)

 

[Zebo]

Can you explain in brief?

I did on edit I can explain more though.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Yeah, Thank goodness we had enlightenment (Age of Reason)

Tell that to the Republicans.

 

[llee]

I just read this. It's an interesting article from 2007 that talks about why the threat of Islamic extremism is emerging. Zebo's point about the Inshallah Fatalism seems to be a pretty serious issue for the middle eastern populace.

Back to guns though, if my plan (I obviously realize that it's far fetched) is completely ineffective, should we as foreigners even care about what happens there ?

 

[Zebo]

Tell that to the Republicans.

Baghdad and as consequence Islam was actually well on it's way as center of cultural and scientific universe 500 years before Europe when we were still in caves. That is until Khan killed everyone in it, 9/10 of population in persia etc and made them seek fundamentalism again for refuge. They blamed liberalism on their destruction and the rest is history.

 

[Zebo]

I just read this. It's an interesting article from 2007 that talks about why the threat of Islamic extremism is emerging. Zebo's point about the Inshallah Fatalism seems to be a pretty serious issue for the middle eastern populace.

Back to guns though, if my plan (I obviously realize that it's far fetched) is completely ineffective, should we as foreigners even care about what happens there ?

I don't think it will work. Maybe in Iran where there is a viable revolution (green revolution) against the established order. Thing is most people are not into dying. Fundi's OTOH have no problem with it, this is why it only takes a small minority of extremists to dominate a society. Nazi Germany for example and obviously Taliban Afghanistan. If you dropped those guns most would end up in hands of fundis in a week.

Pretty good read. I won't group all the same like he has but the general atmosphere is correct.

 

[manimal]

Yeah, Thank goodness we had enlightenment (Age of Reason)

While extremism has grown the last decade the bulk of that growth has been due to war on terror and lots of recruiting with things like Abu Graibh, the drone air-strikes, the constant civilian deaths due to the clumsy nature of war.

The weapons of war are far too blunt to make extended war anything but good for your enemy. The thing that extremism has done for most of the world is create a system of fear as a result of the constant loss of life on all the sides. If you look at the greater rising majority of westernized and educated men AND women the path of the middle east and Islam in general is one very parallel to the christian-Judeo faiths..

the basic premise that terrorism can be won is false and is like crime, disease, and famine, a factor that has to be mitigated by hard won diplomacy and economic success for everyone.

When it comes to Afghanistan the only real road would be hard won economic and cultural gains for the people to want to do it for themselves. The recent mining deposits could very well be that engine. If the people get utilities, food, education, and hope for their families why would they turn to any kind of hate.

One may think these things are hopeless but I choose to believe in the inherent good in people if they have the tools to choose to do the right thing. Ignorance, fear, hate, and abject poverty are far to good at what they do it allow them to spread.

The only way I could choose to bring children into this world was to choose to believe that the world can be a better place..

To your point Zebo if western culture can attain an age of reason can Muslim society not attain something similar?

 

[Zebo]

Gonna be really hard. Just how are you going to change the life of Muhammad, the perfect man, the man all good Muslims should emulate so that it is full of sweetness and light ala Jesus, instead of aggression, violence, and endless attacks on innocent non-Muslims and on Muslims not quite Muslim enough? How do you propose to change the Quran, the immutable Word of God?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Read some history. Afghanistan has manufactured and dealt in arms since rocks were invented. Every town and most families have weapon stashes.

 

[Lemon law]

Zebo, it quite frankly amazes me that you can say, "Read Quran. You'll understand why that's impossible. It's like a perfect reciprocal relationship. More fundi they are the poorer they are (save accidents of geology like Saudi Arabia) Without oil, it would look like Somalia."

And all I can say is read the Christian bible and you will not find a dime worth of difference. But in terms of recent world history, Christians are way way way ahead of
Islam in killing the most people for the most stupid reasons.

But in MHO, its no damn reason for condemning either religion, like it or not Islam and Christianity are the two most dominant religions on earth, they share common roots and common values, and at one and the same time can be the evil and corrupting force and also be the most the most morally ennobling force.

We have rotten Christian nations and rotten Muslim Nations, but it gets really strange when the USA supports the most rotten and retro beliefs of a wahbatist Saudi Arabia and condemns the same in an Afghan Taliban. When in fact the larger part of Islamic nations are just slightly behind most Christian nations in changing to more modern ideals.

In MHO, a large part of the friction between Islam and Christianity is somewhat a historical accident. Because Islamic nations tend toi be the last set of nations to throw off what amounts to the spent forces of European Christian colonialism.

And that, in my mind is where Ossama Bin Laden is wrong, maybe the external viewer of world history can say the 500 year history of European Colonialism is a total record of
of Christian evil that should be rolled back, but I say, shit happened and the past cannot be changed. And if nothing else, colonialism was a force that has the net effect of making the entire world a vastly different and more modern place.

But still colonialism is no longer an option and we better find new ways for the entire world to progress.

Because no longer do the Christian or Muslim world have any monopoly on technology, but both religions want a better life for their people.

 

[Zebo]

Also Manimal- Muslims arnt children why treat them as such? In fact you delay what you seek by doing so. It has to be up to the Muslims to educate themselves, to feed themselves, to join the 21st century themselves. This whole rebuilding scheme is a complete joke. First they expect it. It's written infidels must pay taxes to them called Jizya so we are complicit in supporting their beliefs. Second it does not force them to re evaluate their position in the world and make adjustments.

If I had my way I'd relegate Saudi to bankruptcy too by not using oil but spend about 2 trillion building nuke plants and electric car infrastructure.

 

[Zebo]

Zebo, it quite frankly amazes me that you can say, "Read Quran. You'll understand why that's impossible. It's like a perfect reciprocal relationship. More fundi they are the poorer they are (save accidents of geology like Saudi Arabia) Without oil, it would look like Somalia."

And all I can say is read the Christian bible and you will not find a dime worth of difference. But in terms of recent world history, Christians are way way way ahead of
Islam in killing the most people for the most stupid reasons.

But in MHO, its no damn reason for condemning either religion, like it or not Islam and Christianity are the two most dominant religions on earth, they share common roots and common values, and at one and the same time can be the evil and corrupting force and also be the most the most morally ennobling force.

We have rotten Christian nations and rotten Muslim Nations, but it gets really strange when the USA supports the most rotten and retro beliefs of a wahbatist Saudi Arabia and condemns the same in an Afghan Taliban. When in fact the larger part of Islamic nations are just slightly behind most Christian nations in changing to more modern ideals.

In MHO, a large part of the friction between Islam and Christianity is somewhat a historical accident. Because Islamic nations tend toi be the last set of nations to throw off what amounts to the spent forces of European Christian colonialism.

And that, in my mind is where Ossama Bin Laden is wrong, maybe the external viewer of world history can say the 500 year history of European Colonialism is a total record of
of Christian evil that should be rolled back, but I say, shit happened and the past cannot be changed. And if nothing else, colonialism was a force that has the net effect of making the entire world a vastly different and more modern place.

But still colonialism is no longer an option and we better find new ways for the entire world to progress.

Because no longer do the Christian or Muslim world have any monopoly on technology, but both religions want a better life for their people.

You're wrong. Just the Mughal Empire killed 100 of thousands a day. Not to Mention who colonized first? Ever heard of muslim conquest of Iberia?

Either way that's not today, where I live, , today, people are not running around in masse and almost all conflicts today killing people with bible, Bhaved Gita or Book of Morman in hand but Quran. It's even emblem of most terrorists orgs. If they were, and I still have my problems with Christians too although they are neutered today thankfully, I'd get down on them too.

There are no Christian countries who don't allow Mosques to be built..can't say same for Saudi and many other places with reguad to other religions being free.


Quite simply there is no comparison in scale or virulence.

 

[Lemon law]

Cheer up Zebo, you are a totally immature idiot and a fool, you will not get your way, and because too many idiots in the USA think like you do, we are stuck in twin quagmires that benefit only terrorists,

In Terms of Jehad, for every idiot Muslim advocating Jehad, I can find two Christian idiots advocating Christian Jehad. But riddle me this, maybe a rare few Muslim Jehad idiots types can do violence onto us, but now the USA and Nato are more than the bigger rascals as we as an entire nations go half way around the world and do more damage. So Zebo, riddle me this, exactly how many Muslim nations go half way around the world, as their entire foreign policy, to occupy and conquer Western Nations just like the USA?

Maybe a few very isolated Muslim terrorist do, but conquer and occupy is well beyond their capacity. As somewhat we in the United States discover we think we can temporarily conquer and occupy, but are far too immature, stupid, to do anything to cement any permanent gain. And win quagmires and bleed blood and treasure instead.