Second build; need advice

[Apoplexy]

Hey this is my first post on this forum, but this seems like the right place for straight answers about computer parts. Thanks for any help in advance. This is the second build I've done, my first rig being built in early 2008. Its parts are a bit outdated now so I figure it's time for an upgrade. Not to mention the graphics card is fried.


1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
I'll be gaming for the most part. Want to be able to run SC2 fully maxed, Skyrim and BF3 fully maxed or very close to it. Also watching a lot of HD Starcraft streams / youtube videos.


2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
$1400 - $1600

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
USA, newegg

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
Intel and nVidia

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
I have this cd/dvd burner from my last build: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106073

I think it should be compatible with everything I list below? Not sure though.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
I've read plenty of threads on other forums, and chosen my parts based on what seems to be the overall consensus.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
Definitely want to overclock the CPU at least. I'm going to be running my CPU on air, but I want to get as much out of it as I can. Hopefully 4.5-4.8 GHz, but if it's a bit below that, that's fine too. I also may want to OC the video card, but I haven't looked into it that much. Depends on how much effort is required and how much performance is gained.

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.
1920x1200

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Either mid-December or later in 2012. This brings me to my questions. But first, here's my tentative build:

Case:
Corsair Carbide Series 400R Graphite grey and black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Gaming Case

Hard Drive:
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Video Card:
EVGA 015-P3-1580-AR GeForce GTX 580 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

PSU:
RAIDMAX HYBRID 2 RX-730SS 730W ATX12V V2.2/ EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Modular LED Power Supply

Memory:
CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B

Mobo:
ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Processor:
Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000

Cooling:
I'm planning to install these two fans in the case for extra cooling:
COOLER MASTER R4-L2S-122B-GP 120mm 4 Blue LED Case Fan 2 in 1 pack

I'm getting this to cool the CPU:
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R1 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler

Going to attach this to the cooler (only one fan is included with cooler):
Scythe DFS123812-3000 "ULTRA KAZE" 120 x 38 mm Case Fan

The grand total for this is $1340 including shipping.

My hesitance to buy this system and build it is because I've been reading a lot about the new Ivy Bridge architecture from Intel coming out in Q1 2012 as well as the new Kepler architecture from nVidia coming out in Q1~Q2 2012.

Intel claims that Ivy Bridge is going to offer up to a 30% performance increase over Sandy Bridge, but they're almost certainly not going to come out with an unlocked K-series processor right out of the gate with Ivy Bridge. Does this mean that it will be significantly more difficult to overclock the first Ivy Bridge processors? If that's the case I feel like I could get more from an overclocked i5-2500K for way less money, and I wouldn't have to wait.

I've heard that the Kepler architecture is supposed to be a massive boost to graphics capabilities -- upwards of 3x better performance. But I've also heard that the high end models aren't likely to come out till Q2 2012, as the newly released Beta drivers only listed the 610 and 630 cards. I guess I'm willing to wait for the 670 GTX or something similar if these cards are really going to be all that. If they're only likely to be a small increase in performance compared to the 500 series (considering future games' graphics, as well) then I'll probably opt for the 580 right now. I would also consider just getting a 570 if this is the case.

I've heard that you should buy as much RAM as your budget allows for, but I've also heard that 4 gigs enough for most games nowadays, and 8 gigs is overkill for pretty much everything. In that case the 16 GB that I have picked out would be ridiculously overkill, but it's really not that expensive, so unless there is literally no difference between dropping down to 8 or even 4 and 16, then I'll probably stick with what I have now.

My final concern is that my power supply won't be enough to run everything in this rig. A lot of the high end system's specs that I read are rocking a 1200 W power supply or something like that, but from what I've read, 730 W would probably be enough to power this system.

Once again, thank you for any advice/criticism/comments. Sorry for the super long post, but I'm really trying to do all my homework so I can do this build right.

 

[Ken g6]

2x6950 is about the same price and power use as your 580, but has better performance. Or get a cheap, temporary card like a 460 or 6870 until Kepler comes out.

You should either pony up for a decent-brand PSU, XFX, $90AR; or buy a 650W PSU, Antec, $75, no power cable included.

I'd get shorter, cheaper RAM. Example: 2xPatriot Signature, $75 AR. (limit one rebate)

 

[Apoplexy]

Yeah I like the idea of getting a cheaper card for the time being. I'd probably go with this 460. And you're definitely right about the PSU. Last night I realized that the PSU is definitely not something to skimp on, so I'm looking at using this 750W Corsair. Should be substantial, right?

Do you think the RAM I have selected right now could be dicey with regards to how well it fits with other components in the case? My biggest concern would be that the Scythe fan I install covers up some of the memory slots.

 

[mfenn]

Here's a few comments on the build:
- Case: Good
- HDD : Good, but not worth $160. Spend $90 on a 500GB drive like this Seagate and get some more storage when prices calm down.
- GPU: Not worth the money. Honestly, a single 6950 2GB is probably enough performance for you and it only costs $245 AR. Unlock it to a 6970 and you have AMD's highest end card for half of the Nvidia.
- PSU: Utter crap. For a single GPU system, an XFX 650W costs about the same AR and performs much better.
- RAM: Heatspreaders are too tall. Get the Patriot that Ken recommended, though honestly 8GB is plenty.
- Mobo: Fine
- CPU: Good
- HSF: Good
- Fans: Don't see the need to get those. More is not better, smarter is better.
- SSD : As in, you should really get one with your budget. The Crucial M4 128GB will make a bigger difference in general usage performance than all of the other parts combined (not kidding).

 

[philosofool]

Strongly second two things mfenn says:
-Your budget can get you a SSD. Absolutely do this. I have one. Most ordinary programs load about as fast as you can get your mouse to it.
-If your current HDD is SATA, you probably don't need a large new one if you get an SSD. In any event, I would strongly urge you to wait to get a new HDD if you can. The reason is that the HDD you link is literally about $70 just a few weeks ago and HDDs are bound to drop in price in the relatively near future.

In case you don't know much about SSDs, the idea is that you install programs, OS, and other "system" files onto it, and your user files (movies, music, etc.--everything normally in C:/Users/[user]) go on a conventional HDD. Obviously, current $$/GB are way to much for data storage on a home PC, but user types of files like mp3, mpeg and avi don't require rapid access for maximum performance, whereas OS and program files do. Once you install windows, you have to move your user files over to the HDD. (This is easy.) Depending on the size of your current HDD, you may not even need a new one.

My view is that if you can be patient, it's probably worth it to hold on for Ivy Bridge, but Q1 include March. Realistically, you don't need more than a i5 2500-K at stock speeds for games, so there's no strong reason to hold on for Ivy.

 

[Apoplexy]

A SSD sounds like a good idea. I'm running a 256 gb SSD on my laptop right now, but I'm not sure how switching between the HDD and SSD works on a desktop. I like to listen to music while I game, so that takes up 36 gigs right there (if it needs to be on the SSD), then Windows will take up a significant portion I imagine. Can you access things on your HDD and SSD without rebooting? Also, what does a SATA III SSD have that a SATA II does not? Are there any compatibility issues to worry about depending on which type I get?

After looking at the benchmarks for 8GB RAM vs 16GB, seems like you guys are right about 8GB being enough, but will I see a significant difference if I go with 1333 MHz rather than 1600 MHz RAM?

Thanks for all your input

 

[lehtv]

Can you access things on your HDD and SSD without rebooting?

Err. SSD is just a drive, Windows treats it like any other drive. You can always access every drive and partition that is formatted with a file system Windows is compatible with.

Also, what does a SATA III SSD have that a SATA II does not? Are there any compatibility issues to worry about depending on which type I get?

SATA III = 6gb/s bandwidth, SATA II = 3gb/s. SATA III SSD's are simply put faster because they don't suffer from the bandwidth limitation of SATA II. There are no compatibility issues, a SATA II SSD can be used in a SATA III port, and vice versa; the bandwidth will simply be limited to 3gb/s. Not that this matters, your mobo has SATA II and III ports.

After looking at the benchmarks for 8GB RAM vs 16GB, seems like you guys are right about 8GB being enough, but will I see a significant difference if I go with 1333 MHz rather than 1600 MHz RAM?

There is a small difference, ranging from 0 to 3% depending on application and amount of multitasking... That is a difference you'll never notice or miss. Then again, so is the difference in price.

 

[mfenn]

I like to listen to music while I game, so that takes up 36 gigs right there (if it needs to be on the SSD), then Windows will take up a significant portion I imagine.
Thanks for all your input

Agree with everything that lehtv said. To expand upon the part that I quoted, basically you will have your SSD as the C drive and the HDD as D (or E, F, whatever). You will put your OS, programs, and generally anything else that needs to be fast on the SSD. All bulk data like music, videos, documents, etc. goes on the HDD.

 

[Apoplexy]

Alright cool. I was worried that I'd have to use either the SSD or HDD exclusively after I booted up. Thanks answering a computer noob's questions . I think I'm gonna end up waiting for the Kepler and the Ivy Bridge. What about a sound card? I listen to music pretty much every second I'm on the computer, so I'd like to get good sound quality. But I don't need 7.1 or anything, so should I be good with the on-board sound or will I hear a significant difference if I go with something like this?

 

[ElFenix]

ivy bridge may not be out until june.

on board sound often picks up noise through the electrical connections of things like hard drive and fan motors. in my experience this is especially apparent with headphones.

 

[mfenn]

Alright cool. I was worried that I'd have to use either the SSD or HDD exclusively after I booted up. Thanks answering a computer noob's questions . I think I'm gonna end up waiting for the Kepler and the Ivy Bridge. What about a sound card? I listen to music pretty much every second I'm on the computer, so I'd like to get good sound quality. But I don't need 7.1 or anything, so should I be good with the on-board sound or will I hear a significant difference if I go with something like this?

Depends on what your speakers/headphone setup is. If you are using headphones, you are better off with an outboard amp/dac combo than a sound card. If you are using speakers, you want to go digital to your receiver and/or dac (if you don't know what those are, your speakers aren't good enough ).

 

[fastamdman]

On board sound is great and has been for awhile. I highly recommend grabbing a SB setup now because IB is a ways out.

We can also get you setup with a cheaper 2500k system too that performs just as well

 

[lehtv]

You will probably hear a difference with Xonar DX no matter what your audio setup is, because you will probably be using the equalizer function to personalize the bass, midtones and treble to your liking, or to compensate for weaknesses in your audio setup. When listening music I sometimes change the levels even from one song to the next. You may also be using Dolby Headphone which has a massive impact on how things sound (for the better to my ear and with my headset).

 

[mfenn]

You will probably hear a difference with Xonar DX no matter what your audio setup is, because you will probably be using the equalizer function to personalize the bass, midtones and treble to your liking, or to compensate for weaknesses in your audio setup. When listening music I sometimes change the levels even from one song to the next. You may also be using Dolby Headphone which has a massive impact on how things sound (for the better to my ear and with my headset).

Pretty much all music playing software worth anything has a built-in software EQ, so I don't see how that is an advantage for music. As for Dolby Headphone, you can do much the same thing (though not quite as good), by properly setting your output to Headphone and then setting the game to use 2D positional audio.

 

[lehtv]

Pretty sure software EQ is noticeably inferior to hardware EQ. In fact, I might give it a test some day just to be sure. Regardless, hardware EQ doesn't apply just to music, it allows you to customize the sound in movies, music, live streams, anything. And you can create profiles for different types of media. The same goes for Dolby Headphone; done via hardware it's superior to any 2D positional audio setting in a game, and it doesn't only apply to games but to movies, music, anything. And you can customize the strength of the effect as well to suit your taste.

 

[Apoplexy]

I almost exclusively use headphones so a sound card sounds like the way to go. I think I'll shell out the extra $80 for a decent card. Any recommendations other than the Asus XONAR DX that I linked for a similar or smaller amount of money?

 

[s44]

A sound card is a giant waste of money. For actual sound improvements you should put the money to a receiver... Room correction and audio processing on those things are rather more advanced, and of course you end up keeping the signal bit-perfect all the way to the amp.

 

[mfenn]

I almost exclusively use headphones so a sound card sounds like the way to go. I think I'll shell out the extra $80 for a decent card. Any recommendations other than the Asus XONAR DX that I linked for a similar or smaller amount of money?

I can see getting a $30 Xonar DG for the benefits that lehtv mentioned, but above that, you really want an amp/dac combo instead. The Total Bithead is a good one at $130. The key benefit is that you're moving the digital to analog conversion and amplification out of the EFI/EMI storm that is the inside of a PC case.

 

[Apoplexy]

Alright, I bought a few of the components for my new computer over the Black Friday weekend. What do you guys think?

Corsair Carbide 500R White - $80 AR
HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D 750 GB - $70 AR
Intel 320 Series 120 GB SSD - $120 AR
SeaSonic X750 Power Supply 750 W - $110 AR
Corsair Vengeance 1600 MHz RAM 16 GB - $60 AR

I was going to get the 400R case, but the 500R price dropped quite a bit so I decided to spend the extra $20 or so. The HDD I picked out has good specs, but doesn't have any reviews on Newegg, which kind of concerns me. Any input on the HDD?

The Intel SSD was a very difficult decision. I was dead set on getting the Crucial 128 GB prior to seeing this Black Friday sale. However after doing a bit of reading, it seems like people don't really see a noticeable difference between the Crucial M4 and the Intel 310 series, despite one being SATA III and the other SATA II, and the Crucial reading speeds being up to 300 MB/s faster. Was it a mistake to grab this SSD? It was only $120, compared to a bit over $200 for the Crucial.

As for the power supply, it has good reviews, and I think it would leave me options to do some modest SLI / Crossfire in the future (right?) And for the RAM, yeah I know I'll rarely use 16 GB, but why not get it? I may be running some computational math software on the computer at some point, in which case I imagine it would be nice to have. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[lehtv]

X750 is a fantastic PSU, it will last you 5+ years minimum whatever dual-GPU setup you throw at it. (It could run GTX 580 SLI even.)

And for the RAM, yeah I know I'll rarely use 16 GB, but why not get it?

Rarely? More like never. Gaming won't even take full advantage of 8GB. $60 for 16GB isn't bad though, but I'd have gone for 8GB G.Skill @ $30.

I was going to get the 400R case, but the 500R price dropped quite a bit so I decided to spend the extra $20 or so

That's about the price of the included 200mm side fan. As long as you eventually run SLI/crossfire, it'll pay off. Otherwise, 400R would've been fine.

Any input on the HDD?

Best $/GB at the moment, fast new drive. It's good.

Was it a mistake to grab this SSD?

Well, you're limited to SATA II but 1 $/GB it is pretty nice value, so thumbs up on that.

 

[mfenn]

I think that your parts are pretty good, but I cannot see the logic in going with an X750 for $110 AR vs an XFX 650W for $45 AR over the weekend. Both are good PSUs, but there is no way that the Seasonic is twice as good.

Very nice pick on the HDD. It's a single 1TB platter (250GB disabled), so you will get very good speeds out of it. At $70, it is almost back to pre-flood $/GB.

 

[Apoplexy]

Ok I'm feeling a bit more confident in my choices now . One concern though, would 750W be enough to SLI two Keplers? Maybe two of the cards analogous to the 560 GTX for Kepler?

Also, I'm holding off on buying the motherboard for now partly because there weren't any amazing details over the weekend that I saw, and I'm not sure I want to get a Z68. It seems like a fantastic chipset, but if I'm not building this thing until sometime in 2012 I figure I should wait for a new chipset to come out. My understanding is that Ivy Bridge is most likely to have another chipset come out concurrently with it? Of course the Z68 would work, but I'm not very privy as to how a chipset affects performance/functionality. I've heard that some chipsets support OC'ing better than others.

 

[lehtv]

Yes, X-750 would be enough for two Keplers. Something like GTX 680 SLI would be pushing it but it probably still wouldn't use the full rated wattage, it'd work but at least 850W would be recommended for 680 SLI, like for 580 SLI.

 

[mfenn]

Ok I'm feeling a bit more confident in my choices now . One concern though, would 750W be enough to SLI two Keplers? Maybe two of the cards analogous to the 560 GTX for Kepler?

Also, I'm holding off on buying the motherboard for now partly because there weren't any amazing details over the weekend that I saw, and I'm not sure I want to get a Z68. It seems like a fantastic chipset, but if I'm not building this thing until sometime in 2012 I figure I should wait for a new chipset to come out. My understanding is that Ivy Bridge is most likely to have another chipset come out concurrently with it? Of course the Z68 would work, but I'm not very privy as to how a chipset affects performance/functionality. I've heard that some chipsets support OC'ing better than others.

If you aren't building until 2012, I strongly advise you to return everything that you've bought. You should buy all the parts at once, otherwise you are not getting good bang for your buck. Remember there are two factors in bang / buck. You saved a decent number of bucks (maybe 20% on average) but waiting will give you more than 20% more bang.

 

[s44]

If you aren't building until 2012, I strongly advise you to return everything that you've bought. You should buy all the parts at once, otherwise you are not getting good bang for your buck.

Disagree. PSU + case don't really change prices, and there have been some killer deals on those.