Seattle Bank Teller Fired for Chasing, Apprehending Robber

[PlasmaBomb]

Now for something completely different...

Success is never found. Failure is never fatal. Courage is the only thing.
Churchill

Failure is instructive. The person who really thinks learns quite as much from his failures as from his successes.
John Dewey

You may not realise it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you.
Walt Disney

Success and failure are both difficult to endure. Along with success come drugs, divorce, fornication, bullying, travel, meditation, medication, depression, neurosis and suicide. With failure comes failure.
Joseph Heller

An expert is someone who knows some of the worst mistakes that can be made in his subject and how to avoid them.
Werner Heisenberg

In reference to your straw-man arguments this comment seems enlightening...

Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: Sea Moose
Sea moose officially pwned by PlasmaBomb

*Yoink*

/Simpsons

Edit: There is not space.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

In reference to your straw-man arguments this comment seems enlightening...

Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

This comes to mind also...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

In reference to your straw-man arguments this comment seems enlightening...

Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

This comes to mind also...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

The Einstein quote also came to my mind. I just didn't post it 🙂

 

[se7en]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

What's with the italics se7en?

I dont know it has done that on several posts of mine where there hasnt been any formatting other than quotes.

1st time warping now random text formatting?

 

[Sea Moose]

"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered
automatic weapons."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"Freedom is not free, but the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share."
-Ned Dolan

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to
visit violence on those who would harm us."
-George Orwell

i can play quotes game too. Here are some i like

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: se7en

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

What's with the italics se7en?

I dont know it has done that on several posts of mine where there hasnt been any formatting other than quotes.

1st time warping now random text formatting?

looks like you lost the ] at the end of the originally posted by section, don't know why...

 

[Sea Moose]

I cannot surrender. I am in command of Australians who would cut my throat if I did.
Colonel C Hore, Elands River, South Africa

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
Edmund Burke

I was asked recently if I ever saw any discrimination in the Army. I replied that the Australian Army could never be accused of discrimination. They treat everyone like shit.
Former soldier (initials KJ)

and some personal favorites

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: Sea Moose

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

1) thank you for agreeing with me - No problem
2) effing civilians - I haven't seen any pictures of him, but I'm pretty sure he isn't my type 😉
Plus you are a civilian...
3) damn you caught me, i was hoping this would slide- Nope
4) possibly... depends on the situation really- The situation was a suspected armed robber. When the teller got handsy, the robber could have broke free (which he obviously did since the teller chased him) and grabbed someone nearby and put a gun to their head (since there is typically a screen between the teller and customer).
5) people lie on the internet?- Afraid so, and there are no wommenz on the internets. just remember...

Originally posted by: Sea Moose
i can play quotes game too. Here are some i like

Some of mine supported you.

My intro was better 😉

"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered
automatic weapons."
-General Douglas MacArthur

And yet a pen can send hundreds of thousands of automatic weapons to conquer your one automatic weapon...

"Freedom is not free, but the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share."
-Ned Dolan

Neither of us are from the US, so this fails to hold true...

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to
visit violence on those who would harm us."
-George Orwell

Allegedly said by George Orwell although there is no evidence that Orwell ever wrote or uttered either of these versions of this idea. They do bear some similarity to comments made in an essay that Orwell wrote on Rudyard Kipling, when quoting from one of his poems. Orwell did write, in his essay on Kipling, that the latter's "grasp of function, of who protects whom, is very sound. He sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them."

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - Winston Churchill

Miscellaneous quote also attributed to Churchill.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. - Aaron Sorkin

🙂

Edit: Start a quote tread if you mean to continue Sea Moose...

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

1) thank you for agreeing with me - No problem
2) effing civilians - I haven't seen any pictures of him, but I'm pretty sure he isn't my type
Plus you are a civilian... Nope
3) damn you caught me, i was hoping this would slide- Nope damn u 😛
4) possibly... depends on the situation really- The situation was a suspected armed robber. When the teller got handsy, the robber could have broke free (which he obviously did since the teller chased him) and grabbed someone nearby and put a gun to their head (since there is typically a screen between the teller and customer).
5) people lie on the internet?- Afraid so, and there are no wommenz on the internets. just remember... your sarcasm meter is broken, you should send it in for repairs 😛

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: Sea Moose

effing civilians - I haven't seen any pictures of him, but I'm pretty sure he isn't my type
Plus you are a civilian... Nope

- You TA/reserves? Thought that you were a humble "HVAC mechanic"

damn you caught me, i was hoping this would slide- Nope damn u 😛

- Indeed.

people lie on the internet?- Afraid so, and there are no wommenz on the internets. just remember... your sarcasm meter is broken, you should send it in for repairs 😛

I am afraid your sarcasm meter is broken, not mine 😉

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

fucking retarded laws and lawsuits in the US.

 

[Regs]

A security guard, no. A bank teller, yes. It's true that employees who go beyond the line of their duty risk their employer from lawsuits and risk their customers safety.

If I were a customer in the bank and some dip shit 18 y/o teller thought he could be super man and try and go after an armed robber and get me shot in the process, I would get very pissed. A teller has no business trying to play a hero, especially one thats acting out of fear and emotion.

 

[Anonemous]

so someone got shot? or you guys still playing what if?

 

[zeruty]

I think all of the tellers in the branch who are qualified should be carrying a gun, as well as many of the customers in the bank. The robber should have been killed as soon as he threatened the teller, regardless if he had a weapon. That is the best way to prevent bank robberies in the future.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Anonemous
so someone got shot? or you guys still playing what if?

Nobody was shot, but that does not change the fact that a rule was broken giving the bank the full "right" to fire the man. Safety rules are all based on a "what if" condition. Doesn't matter what you think of them, they are instituted for the safety of those around.

It turned out OK in this case but could have turned out badly. Doesn't make a difference though....rule was broken.

 

[DayLaPaul]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Sea Moose

you just had to have the last say didnt you. couldnt help yourself.


i made my point several times but you continuously wanted to call me strawman. You ignored my point.

Taps watch...waiting for argument and proof why bank should not have the right to fire guy for breaking rule. Your point wasn't ignored, it did nothing to bolster your position. Actually, none of them have.

I'll tell you what, I'll let you have the last post when you post a good sound argument proving why the bank should not have the right to fire the man for breaking the rule. Fair enough?

Sorry to say it, but as an objective party, the biggest strawman I see is you, Engineer. Sea Moose's first post stated his opinion was that the West is raising their children to be pussies.

You then bring up some unrelated red light analogy, then proceed to twist Sea Moose's position saying he said that the bank has no right to fire him.

Then you constantly ask him to defend this new indefensible position, rather than his original position.

I've reviewed the thread. Sure, Sea Moose made some offhand comment about what if the world ended tomorrow that can be considered a strawman, but that was in response to your left field red light analogy and was nowhere near as egregious as you twisting his statement into saying that the bank has no right to fire him.

Unless there was an edit somewhere that I didn't catch, I'm going to have to side with Sea Moose on this one. He may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but this argument was 100% fabricated by you, my friend.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Sea Moose

you just had to have the last say didnt you. couldnt help yourself.


i made my point several times but you continuously wanted to call me strawman. You ignored my point.

Taps watch...waiting for argument and proof why bank should not have the right to fire guy for breaking rule. Your point wasn't ignored, it did nothing to bolster your position. Actually, none of them have.

I'll tell you what, I'll let you have the last post when you post a good sound argument proving why the bank should not have the right to fire the man for breaking the rule. Fair enough?

Sorry to say it, but as an objective party, the biggest strawman I see is you, Engineer. Sea Moose's first post stated his opinion was that the West is raising their children to be pussies.

You then bring up some unrelated red light analogy, then proceed to twist Sea Moose's position saying he said that the bank has no right to fire him.

Then you constantly ask him to defend this new indefensible position, rather than his original position.

I've reviewed the thread. Sure, Sea Moose made some offhand comment about what if the world ended tomorrow that can be considered a strawman, but that was in response to your left field red light analogy and was nowhere near as egregious as you twisting his statement into saying that the bank has no right to fire him.

Unless there was an edit somewhere that I didn't catch, I'm going to have to side with Sea Moose on this one. He may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but this argument was 100% fabricated by you, my friend.

I'm re-reading the thread right now. I brought up the red light analogy as a question to another poster. Sea Moose chimed in. Will either agree or disagree with you when I've finished digesting the thread (again).


Source (I made no comment on his statement about the West being pussies or whatever he stated. I didn't even read that much less respond to that one).

Originally posted by: Sea Moose

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Well, he did go against company policy but the outcome was positive so why would you fire him? Doesn't make any sense IMO.

I ran a red light this morning and made it to work on time (outcome was positive). Nobody was hurt as there was nobody in the intersection. I don't think a cop should give me a ticket, do you? 😀

Just curious, if the teller had charged the guy, the guy pulled out a gun and killed 4 other people on the street (or in the bank) and didn't kill the teller, should the teller have been fired then?

problem is, people seem to operate on the "what if" way of thinking.

what if someone was killed as a result of his action

But what if someone wasnt killed as a result of his action. <--- This was the result, the guy should get a bravery award for showing courage.



what if the world ends tomorrow?

Strawman was brought up because of the above statement (bolded) which is indeed a strawman starting with what he posted to what I had posted. Still looking. He might not have said that the bank does not have the right to fire and if so, my apologies.

Still reading....

I brought up the point that bank had right to fire the guy. Sea Moose proceeded to boast how he had poked holes in what I had written (i.e. I assumed (made an ass out of me maybe) that he was disagreeing with me that the bank had the right to fire the guy).

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Sea Moose


yup its true. Academics have standard attacks. I love poking holes in academics ideas. ESPECIALLY ARCHITECTS. I HATE HATE HATE HATE ARCHITECTS

OK, what holes did your "What if the world ended tomorrow?" poke in my ideas and statements? Ahh...nothing...i.e...it's a strawman (big ole hollow argument in my native hillbilly language).

I'll give Sea Moose an apology for this. I seem to have misread the below statement (I still stand that the world ending tomorrow was a strawman to what I was talking about at the time...

Originally posted by: Sea Moose

Architect story is another strawman. Does nothing to prove why the bank doesn't have the right to enforce their own rule.

not another strawman you dick. I was responding to some one further up who wanted factual accounts of a sea moose pwing an architect.

I'll also stand by my red light analogy because I was showing that rules for safety are just that. I was not using it to justify the firing one way or another other than if you break a rule, the people enforcing the rule have the "right" to do so. Sea Moose chimed in on it with his "world ending" what if strawman.

I don't consider what I wrote as left field at all. If I break a rule, should I be rewarded for it was the jest and it shows exactly what it was meant to show.

Final analysis: I may be the ass that assumed that Sea Moose was stating that the bank did not have the right to fire the guy (which they do) and I'll apologize to Sea Moose for doing so. I still stand by my red light analogy though as it was asked to see if one rule was ok to be broken while another was to be overlooked. Nothing more or nothing less.

I'll even man up and PM an apology to Sea Moose for twisting his words from an opinion (that I assumed) to something else.

 

[DayLaPaul]

I understand what you are trying to say with the red light analogy, but I don't think it fits this scenario. In the bank heist posted in the OP, the bank is the victim (of the crime), the benefactor (of the "heroic" act) and the "punisher" (of the "hero").

In the red light analogy, the victim is an imaginary person who may have been crossing the street. The benefactor is your employer who is happy you are at work on time and the punisher would be the cop writing the ticket. It's easy to say that the cop should give you the ticket in this situation because the cop is in no way benefiting from you running the red light.

A more appropriate analogy would have you doing some action that is potentially dangerous/harmful to your employer, but that, in retrospect, yielded positive results. It would have to have your employer in all three positions of victim, benefactor and punisher.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul

A more appropriate analogy would have you doing some action that is potentially dangerous/harmful to your employer, but that, in retrospect, yielded positive results. It would have to have your employer in all three positions of victim, benefactor and punisher.

See my 2nd analogy about breaking OSHA laws in this thread. Don't have time to look it up...will do so when I return.

Edit:

Originally posted by: Engineer

I'll give you another example closer to my real life. My company spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on safety products (light curtains, e-stop buttons, interlocked gate switches, etc) to keep people out of areas of production when they should not be in there. If I decide not to install them (breaking both the company rules as well as OSHA rules) and save the company close to $1,000,000 per year and nobody happens to get hurt, should I be made a hero and be rewarded for doing so? After all, I just save a close to $1,000,000 (and it wasn't because I switched to Geico).

Why or why not?

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I think some of the people on this board are less-than-athletic nerds who look down on anything athletic or physical. Of course many people on here will be against the idea that anyone take matters into their own hands. Being so incapable themselves they cannot fathom that someone actually man up and do something about their situation. Instead, they're content acting like cowards and then posting threads about how they're a victim. (+5 victim bonus!)

Just re-read this and i still can't comprehend how someone like 91TTZ could be so stupid.

You basically have to be a 14 year old to believe the bullshit you just posted and have a blatant disregard for how the real world works. *INTERNET TOUGH GUY*

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Well, he did go against company policy but the outcome was positive so why would you fire him? Doesn't make any sense IMO.

I ran a red light this morning and made it to work on time (outcome was positive). Nobody was hurt as there was nobody in the intersection. I don't think a cop should give me a ticket, do you? 😀

yes


Just curious, if the teller had charged the guy, the guy pulled out a gun and killed 4 other people on the street (or in the bank) and didn't kill the teller, should the teller have been fired then?

no.

Why should the cop have give me a ticket then? There was a positive outcome and nobody was hurt? Explain?


Let me rephrase the bank teller question...if the teller had a rule (as in the above traffic rule) to NOT interact in such a robbery...then?

Safety rules are put in place for a reason. Break them at your job and see what happens. You get written up or fired. Sure, what the guy did was in ideal great, but he broke the rule and the company had every right to fire him. Should they? Depends, but they had the right (just like the cop could opt to NOT give me a ticket but probably would anyway).

first, there is a difference between *work* rules and criminal law.

its not about safety, its about seeing that justice is done, and every criminal caught and punished successfully.

Work rules should not be made contrary to law.

 

[skace]

I don't like the outcome but I'm also willing to admit that I don't have the knowledge to play out every outcome. I understand why the bank responded the way it did, I also understand why the cops responded the way they did. However, the entire outcome looks like shit because of it. The only thing I can hope is that, off the record, someone fucking smiled, shook his hand and thanked him because otherwise the whole thing sucks. I also don't entirely agree with the message it sends criminals.

I understand the bank is insured, but what do the cops do to clean up the mess this thief does with all the stolen money? Where he spends it, what he buys, etc.

And yes, what if scenarios suck. They do, because they get more dangerous. What about a rape scenario, guy says he is going to rape your wife but if you try to resist he will shoot her. What do you do? How about if the statistics say that in 90% of the cases the victim won't kill a person after raping them, does that make you feel any better while you stand by and watch? You know that if you try and help there is a chance she could die. What do you do?

Now remember, there isn't any fucking guarantee that a robber won't kill anyone while he asks for money. It's just based on statistics, that on average, the robber will just get the money and leave. And when he does kill someone it will be partially the bank policies at fault, although not as liable as when this teller chased a guy down. It will be their fault because criminals will be under the impression that they can get away with anything and have 0 retaliation. That is the environment that was created for them.

 

[DrPizza]

I'm not sure why so many people think there were only two choices - fire him or ignore it.

Certainly the bank was within their rights to fire the guy. But I personally think that a reprimand would have been sufficient.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I'm not sure why so many people think there were only two choices - fire him or ignore it.

Certainly the bank was within their rights to fire the guy. But I personally think that an award would have been sufficient.