• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news for liberals

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Puffnstuff said:
I agree with your statement. Too many people have an entitlement mentality and falsely believe that they should automatically have decent pay. Right now there are many skilled and educated people who had to sacrifice before they were able to achieve livable wages. The days of graduating high school and running down the local factory for a lifetime job of above average wages are over.

Based upon the business information that I've seen recently I believe that the service sector, which currently comprises 77% of all jobs in this country, is about to take a massive hit and those working in the wrong sectors will pay dearly if they don't do something before it happens. I left manufacturing and went back to school to earn my business degree so I can head a new direction.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, you think those that think they should be paid for a decent wage are exhibiting an entitlement mentality? Do you hear yourself when you post?
 
senseamp said:
Minimum wage is not just saying to employers they have to pay $15 per hour, it's also saying to the employees to stay in school and out of the workforce until your productivity justifies $15 per hour wage.
Click to expand...

Splendid. So now having arbitrarily priced these people out of a job because they made wages you consider exploitive, you will lecture them about how they needed to get more skilled anyway.

Is it all possible that low skill workers attain skills by....staying employed?

Is it at all possible that, rather than trying to rise to some arbitrary standard set by the government just in time to be priced out again by the next hike in minimum wage, that these unemployed people might turn to crime instead? Isn't unemployment a rather good predictor of criminality among a host of other social problems?

It amazes me that leftists are so quick to decry the imposition of morality from other parties, and seem completely oblivious to their own.
 
Last edited:
Atreus21 said:
Splendid. So now having arbitrarily priced these people out of a job because they made wages you consider exploitive, you will lecture them about how they needed to get more skilled anyway.

Is it all possible that low skill workers attain skills by....staying employed?

Is it at all possible that, rather than trying to rise to some arbitrary standard set by the government just in time to be priced out again by the next hike in minimum wage, that these unemployed people might turn to crime instead? Isn't unemployment a rather good predictor of criminality among a host of other social problems?

It amazes me that leftists are so quick to decry the imposition of morality from other parties, and seem completely oblivious to their own.
Click to expand...

Let's not pretend degenerates have ever seen a labor law they didn't hate because that's what degens do.
 
Atreus21 said:
Splendid. So now having arbitrarily priced these people out of a job because they made wages you consider exploitive, you will lecture them about how they needed to get more skilled anyway.

Is it all possible that low skill workers attain skills by....staying employed?

Is it at all possible that, rather than trying to rise to some arbitrary standard set by the government just in time to be priced out again by the next hike in minimum wage, that these unemployed people might turn to crime instead? Isn't unemployment a rather good predictor of criminality among a host of other social problems?

It amazes me that leftists are so quick to decry the imposition of morality from other parties, and seem completely oblivious to their own.
Click to expand...
This is where you present data showing causation or at least correlation between minimum wage and crime.
 
senseamp said:
This is where you present data showing causation or at least correlation between minimum wage and crime.
Click to expand...
The outcome is good so you are debating over weather it was because of the increased minimum wag, or if it was good despite the increase in minimum wage.

But the point is that increasing minimum wage to $15 did not cause higher unemployment. Which means there are contexts where a high minimum wage can be combined with lower unemployment.

Something I would not have thought theoretically reasonable before this little experiment was run - which has directed me to reconsider my position on minimum wage.

Given this data what are your updated beliefs?
 
DixyCrat said:
The outcome is good so you are debating over weather it was because of the increased minimum wag, or if it was good despite the increase in minimum wage.

But the point is that increasing minimum wage to $15 did not cause higher unemployment. Which means there are contexts where a high minimum wage can be combined with lower unemployment.

Something I would not have thought theoretically reasonable before this little experiment was run - which has directed me to reconsider my position on minimum wage.

Given this data what are your updated beliefs?
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't you believe the data from previous studies that showed the same thing?
 
DixyCrat said:
The outcome is good so you are debating over weather it was because of the increased minimum wag, or if it was good despite the increase in minimum wage.

But the point is that increasing minimum wage to $15 did not cause higher unemployment. Which means there are contexts where a high minimum wage can be combined with lower unemployment.

Something I would not have thought theoretically reasonable before this little experiment was run - which has directed me to reconsider my position on minimum wage.

Given this data what are your updated beliefs?
Click to expand...

No, the point is not about unemployment. The point is just because the minimum wage is raised, does NOT mean mean people making said wage will will actually take home more money. Seattle shows on a large scale, they arent. So whats the benefit?
 
Seattle is an interesting city. Their progressive dreams are funded by some of the most regressive taxes in the country and seattle.gov keeps on adding more and more. Corporate taxes are also very friendly...Amazon doesn't pay their "fair" share. The people in this city have yet to find a tax that they don't like and vote for tax hike after tax hike. Raising wages to $15 an hour looks great on paper and makes it look the politicians care but in reality, the local .gov has already has plans for these folks alleged "extra" income with the record tax levies that have been put forth by Mayor McDoublit, and city council. Seattle.gov claims to care though and that is enough, right?
 
blackangst1 said:
No, the point is not about unemployment. The point is just because the minimum wage is raised, does NOT mean mean people making said wage will will actually take home more money. Seattle shows on a large scale, they arent. So whats the benefit?
Click to expand...

This particular study says employers hired higher skilled workers with higher pay. Sounds like a pretty fucking big benefit to me. Or did you think raising the minium wage is done to increase the number of people making minium wage?
 
ivwshane said:
Why wouldn't you believe the data from previous studies that showed the same thing?
Click to expand...
Because they weren't in the peer reviewed literature that I read; so I'm just a layman in terms of minimum wage economics. Perhaps I should get up to snuff on the minimum wage literature - but the general economic theory is that a market floors set above the market clearing equilibrium creates a surpluses in an commodity. So if you think of labor as a commodity, a minimum wage set above the market clearing equilibrium should lead to unemployment. For this reason I have been in favor of a minimum wage only set to 150% of poverty of a single person, with the difference for single earner-multi-dependent households made up with an EIC paid on a per-paycheck level.

But Seattle shows me that increasing minimum wage is much more than a market floor for a commodity, it re configures the market itself - and in a clearly good way.

blackangst1 said:
No, the point is not about unemployment. The point is just because the minimum wage is raised, does NOT mean mean people making said wage will will actually take home more money. Seattle shows on a large scale, they arent. So whats the benefit?
Click to expand...
If they take home a tiny amount less but work significantly less, that enables them to invest that time in other things like education, their health, or in a low-unemployment environment, more work.
 
DixyCrat said:
If they take home a tiny amount less but work significantly less, that enables them to invest that time in other things like education, their health, or in a low-unemployment environment, more work.
Click to expand...
I suppose that is one way to look at it, however, if we consider the business owner who creates the job in the first place its not sustainable. If I have x amount of work that needs to be performed and you forcibly raise my cost of doing business then I must find ways to lower that cost back into alignment with my budget. I would be forced to drop 1/3 of my workforce to maintain my budget and if that doesn't work I'd outsource what I could to reduce my costs by the maximum amount to begin building a cash reserve so I could relocate outside the city.

If I start a business my first obligation is to me and my welfare and anyone who tries to say differently is either lying or doesn't understand the nature of running a business. Those promoting such policies would cry foul if they were forced to give up personal income to help a neighbor who isn't doing anything to increase their value having less than them in order to raise their standard of living.
 
Puffnstuff said:
I suppose that is one way to look at it, however, if we consider the business owner who creates the job in the first place its not sustainable. If I have x amount of work that needs to be performed and you forcibly raise my cost of doing business then I must find ways to lower that cost back into alignment with my budget. I would be forced to drop 1/3 of my workforce to maintain my budget and if that doesn't work I'd outsource what I could to reduce my costs by the maximum amount to begin building a cash reserve so I could relocate outside the city.

If I start a business my first obligation is to me and my welfare and anyone who tries to say differently is either lying or doesn't understand the nature of running a business. Those promoting such policies would cry foul if they were forced to give up personal income to help a neighbor who isn't doing anything to increase their value having less than them in order to raise their standard of living.
Click to expand...

...or you adjust Prices to increase Revenue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top