Searching for that perfect mobo...

[PygmyBBQ]

I'm building a system for gaming:

SAPPHIRE Radeon X1950XT
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800

but I'm still questioning what motherboard I should use. I don't need many features nor am I planning to overclock. The only two features that I would like (which are pretty much existant on all motherboards) are onboard ethernet and nice onboard sound. What I want is performance and stability. The two motherboards I have been considering are BioStar TForce965PT and GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3. Which one is the way to go, or should I go for a different motherboard? Also my budget for my motherboard is $100-150.

 

[moosey]

I'd say the DS3, either that or an Asus P5B

 

[Zombeh]

first of all, DON'T BUY THE X1950XT! for that price you can get an 8800gt which is dx10 compatible! also the 650i motherboards are pretty good. you should really consider buying for the future of gaming. an 8800 purchase will beat the x1950xt in dx9 mode, and sure as hell play games in dx10 mode. the 650i supports the c2d as well as our next generation quad cores.

 

[markymoo]

welcome fellow x1950xt user. a decent brand mid-range bog standard 965 board will suffice for you. i recommend gigabyte quality over the cheaper make biostar. the ds3 is a fine board but maybe more than what you need. the Gigabyte Gigabyte GA 965P-S3 is cheaper will be fine for your requirements i suspect so will the more cheaper GA 965GM-S2. other competent boards are abit ab9 and the asus p5b. no board is perfect. 2nd generation 965 boards are coming out so if you can wait another month even better. if you ever going to run sli get a 975 board.

you bought a gfx good card there. the best bang for the buck. it smokes the nvidia 7900/7950 series. im enjoying playing games now and past with everything on full on 1600 and under. its fault is its noisy when pushed and runs hot so its wise to get better cooling for it. such as thermalright hr-03. very easy to fit. catalyst 6.12 drivers are just out for your card. dont use 6.11 theres issues with it.

@Zombeh
you mean dont buy the x1950xtx thats near to the price of a 8800gs not the xt. the xt model is very cheap for the power. you find its $150 lol. all that power for a little price. so thats the exact reason i bought it to last me until dx10 is established which will be end of 2007! the 1950xt is 1/3 of the price of a 8800gtx lol. by the time its established you be able to buy a 8800 alot cheaper or something better! (rd600 hint hint). rd600 runs at 800mhz will smoke the 8800. what will nvidia do come out with some performance drivers.

do you think when vista released you see a flood of dx10 games? No! dx9 will still be around for 2007. im fact people will happily play there dx9 games on xp for as long as possible. ms charging $400 for xp and eyecandy a few more security features is a ripoff. something they should of done and got right in the beginning. we end up paying for there mistakes. same goes for motherboards. rant over.

edit $300 not $150

 

[PygmyBBQ]

Marky-
Even if I wouldn't be overclocking would I still need to worry about extra cooling? I also heard that with the 965GM-S2 extra cooling is needed, would this be the same for the GA 965P-S3? I'm not all too familiar with cooling, I've never needed it since I've never got into overclocking my systems.

 

[markymoo]

i dont know any issue of those boards needing extra cooling. there midrange so shouldnt run hot anyway. i dont follow midrange boards closely. i wouldnt worry about that. they fit for running at default speed with intel heatsink and fan(hsf) what you got to concern yourself is that graphics card runs very hot upto 70-100c when you run heavy game on full and the heat is being dumped inside your case. you need a way to remove it so intake front fan(s) and powerful exhaust will be needed. always have more air exhaust than intake to remove the heat first. that will also do your cpu and motherboard good also. also better to use superior cooling and remove the noise with the best vga cooler out at moment the hr-03. i think usa price is around $50. those boards also have high 8 channel sound. that memory you got is very friendly with all boards. any better board wont make your games run any faster. your 6400 is that fast it all down to the graphics.

 

[Zombeh]

@Zombeh
you mean dont buy the x1950xtx thats near to the price of a 8800gs not the xt. the xt model is very cheap for the power. you find its $150 lol. all that power for a little price. so thats the exact reason i bought it to last me until dx10 is established which will be end of 2007! the 1950xt is 1/3 of the price of a 8800gtx lol. by the time its established you be able to buy a 8800 alot cheaper or something better! (rd600 hint hint). rd600 runs at 800mhz will smoke the 8800. what will nvidia do come out with some performance drivers.

do you think when vista released you see a flood of dx10 games? No! dx9 will still be around for 2007. im fact people will happily play there dx9 games on xp for as long as possible. ms charging $400 for xp and eyecandy a few more security features is a ripoff. something they should of done and got right in the beginning. we end up paying for there mistakes. same goes for motherboards. rant over.

edit $300 not $150[/quote]


well if you want a low end x1950xt for $150 they have about the same core and clock speed as an x850xt pe. i've already seen up to 10 games that are dx10 that are going to come out with vista. also ms isn't chargin $400 for xp anymore lol, it's down to $100, i've seen the upgrade at $9.99 a.r. but i know what you mean about the utilization of dx10 not being done till mid 2007, which is why i'm waiting to buy a dx10 card too. i'm going to use my x850xtpe untill prices drop and more products come out.

 

[PygmyBBQ]

Zombeh-

I think you may be confused. Contrary to what Marky said, you cannot find X1950XT's for $150, the lowest end is $250. This isn't a low end card, the clock speed is 3x faster than any x850xt. The new 8800gt may be a great card, but it's almost twice the price, at this point it's an enthusiast's card, not what I'm looking for.

 

[markymoo]

cheapest privce in uk is £163 which is $320 so if you found it for $250 that excellent price!

 

[Gary Key]

I would increase your budget a little if possible and either buy a DFI 975X Infinity or if you can stretch it, get a Intel BadAxe2. I personally bought three BadAxe2 boards, the next BIOS coming up is going to be something special.

 

[JKing76]

I'm looking at a similar issue, though probably with a little longer time frame to wait. I've narrowed it down to either the BadAxe2 or an RD600 board. You can't beat an Intel board for stability, but the RD600 wins on power draw. Of course, both RD600 and 975 beat the pants off 680i in terms of power draw / heat dissipation. Very curious to see if the next BadAxe BIOS that Gary mentions will include undervolting options.

 

[Mucker]

Bad Axe 2 + 8800GTX FTW....best of all worlds.....

Probably for your budget, DS3....pretty well supported board....

 

[Praxis1452]

Get a DFI Infinisty 975X. Cheapest 975X board for the money and the 975X has better clock for clock performance.

 

[PygmyBBQ]

The Bad Axe 2, DFI 975X, and RD600 are all new boards coming out (where can I find information on all the new revision boards?)? Also would these boards be too much for what I'm trying to do with this system(as in no features and no overclocking)?

Also, I was told to stick with DDR2 667 memory for my setup. The person told me that I only need DDR2 533 to run my cpu effectively so the 667 would accomplish that plus give me the ability to run 1333mhz FSB at a 1:1 ratio. Can anyone confirm that I wouldn't get any more performance out of buying 800 versus 667? Remember, I'm not planning to overclock.

Lastly, With the X1950XT, being that you have to buy a cooler it shoots the card into the $300USD range, what's the best card in the $150-$250USD range (including cooling expenses if needed)?

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: PygmyBBQ
The Bad Axe 2, DFI 975X, and RD600 are all new boards coming out (where can I find information on all the new revision boards?)? Also would these boards be too much for what I'm trying to do with this system(as in no features and no overclocking)?

Also, I was told to stick with DDR2 667 memory for my setup. The person told me that I only need DDR2 533 to run my cpu effectively so the 667 would accomplish that plus give me the ability to run 1333mhz FSB at a 1:1 ratio. Can anyone confirm that I wouldn't get any more performance out of buying 800 versus 667? Remember, I'm not planning to overclock.

Lastly, With the X1950XT, being that you have to buy a cooler it shoots the card into the $300USD range, what's the best card in the $150-$250USD range (including cooling expenses if needed)?

Why do you need to buy a new cooler for it?

 

[PygmyBBQ]

Originally posted by: markymoo
...what you got to concern yourself is that graphics card runs very hot upto 70-100c when you run heavy game on full and the heat is being dumped inside your case...

That's why =(

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: PygmyBBQ

Originally posted by: markymoo
...what you got to concern yourself is that graphics card runs very hot upto 70-100c when you run heavy game on full and the heat is being dumped inside your case...

That's why =(

Hmm. My experience with 3 of those cards has been temps in the high 70's to low 80's and the heat dumps out the back of the case. If you look at a picture of one it has a dual-slot solution that draws the air from inside the case and blows it out the back. It would probably cause lower case temps than other video cards.

 

[Whirlwind]

Don't worry about that ATI card running hot....they do, and they are also built to take it.

I just bought an open box X1900XTX 512 MB.....$310 delivered from newegg.

I had an old AGP 9800XT 256 MB card that I hammered for alittle over 2 years, it would get up around 90c at times, but never had any problems with it.

 

[markymoo]

your budget is $100-150. the perfect motherboard for you is within that price range and will do everything you require for gaming. badaxe2 is by all accounts a great stable board but that will put you far beyond your budget. you dont want to overclock so the boards mentioned are overkill for you. thats why i recommended a board around $150 and that be suitable. that way you you havent spent alot if you need to change boards again in 6 months and board will be worth alot less especially as conroe products keep continually improving lately. the majority of boards are all stable if you dont overclock and you build it with care. whats important for your gaming rig is you have 2gig of memory and a decent gfx card which you have. then to get a good performance boost further would to get 2 decent hard drives and stripe them. thats raid 0.

theres no point building a fast pc if don't maintain windows and configure xp to run at its best. a c2d with a $150 board and a decent gfx card, 2gig mem will go like lightning. what more do you want? get a util like gamexp or xpsmoker which will turn off unecessary services and improve your xp performance. only have the bare minimum programs running in background you need. also get ccleaner. be ruthless and get rid of junk you dont need.

@whirlwind
well the x1950xtx is alot louder than your x1900xtx and when it gets upto 70c+ the fan is going full belt and that is disturbing noise. its like a aggresive vacuum cleaner. for a small outlay you can reduce heat and noise and use the cooler on your next ati card. some users so engrossed in the game they don't notice background sound. if you can cope with such noise fine. for $150-$250 will get you the x1950pro. still a good card.

@Elfear
yes it does pump the majority of the air out the back but that doesnt cause it lower temps than other cards. they draw 150watts. they said of the Radeon X1900 series, the two-slot cooler that became infamous for its noise continues with the x1950 series.

even though x1950xt was good price seems you be able to get it January for alot less. crossfire anyone? I wish i could of held off buying gfx before then but needed now.

Quote

Since AMD has released design kits to the card makers, we can expect X1950XT and even X1950PRO prices to drop. Also AMD has cancelled plans for X1950GT based on RV570LE since it is no longer viable in the current price structure. X1950GT is supposed to be priced at $169, in between X1950PRO and X1650XT. ATi next gen. R600 will come in Q1 2007 most probably in February as we have heard but there is something up the sleeve from NVIDIA in March.
AMD has announced its plan to let different manufactures to design and manufacture its special Radeon X1950XT edition. It is expected these special edition may eventually has a lower cost than the official edition so as to enhancing the competitive efficiency. Some of these special editions have been sent to AMD for verification and hopefully they will be available in the market in Mid-Jan. While the official Radeon X1950XT 256MB has a price of $279, the special editions are probably lower than that. Yet its rival remains the same as GeForce 7950GT 512MB.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: markymoo

@Elfear
yes it does pump the majority of the air out the back but that doesnt cause it lower temps than other cards. they draw 150watts. they said of the Radeon X1900 series, the two-slot cooler that became infamous for its noise continues with the x1950 series.

I get what you're saying but the X1900 series doesn't draw that much more than Nvidia's 7900 series cards. According to Behardware the X1950XTX actually uses less power than the 7900 series at idle, where computers spend 90% of their time I imagine. Even at full load it's not that much higher and that's the X1950XTX we're talking about which has a higher clocked core and memory with more of the latter than the XT. I'd be willing to bet that case temps between an X1950XT and a 7900GTX (used in this example because it's the ATI card's direct competitor) would be equal if not favor the X1950XT slightly.

It appears that you have some experience with the X1950XT by the looks of your sig but I guess our experience differs. I've played around with 3-4 of these cards and while they did get loud at startup for 5 seconds or so they weren't bad at all the rest of the time, even when gaming.

Sorry for the OT but I just want to dispel the myth that you NEED an aftermarket cooler with the X1900 series cards. Unless you have super sensitive hearing or you want a big overclock, I don't think it's necessary.

 

[markymoo]

You running 120mm fans and your system is nice and quiet. along comes x1950xt and upsets the ecobalance. small fans make lots of noise. no you dont need a aftercooler, its tolerable but because its a great card for the money for just $50 more you can make it super quiet and improve the temps as well. the improvements are two-fold its so worth doing. my recommendation is for fast quiet pc. i only know the sapphire dont know noise of other x1950xt. yes maybe it does run cooler than 7900gtx but it still alot of watts than most. i know 7900gt runs about 58c default. The heat and noise is still alot for me. on very high settings i heard of artefact banding on textures. this could be due to the heat. it just makes sense to look after your expensive hardware by cooling it and it probably last longer too. the cards are already overclocked when they leave the factory. on another note x1950xt running a game or full load with a high overclock cpu will use 400 watts alone. 90c is the max acceptible operating temp according to ati.

@PygmyBBQ
the speed difference between the motherboards will be neglible. can you tell difference between 75fps and 85fps. no you cant. what you need to look at is stability. the midrange boards and brands asus, abit, gigabyte will give you that.

 

[PygmyBBQ]

Thanks for all the input guys, awesome thread and I've learned a lot.

My last question is one I asked earlier, but I didn't get a response:

I was told to stick with DDR2 667 memory for my setup. The person told me that I only need DDR2 533 to run my cpu effectively so the 667 would accomplish that plus give me the ability to run 1333mhz FSB at a 1:1 ratio. Can anyone confirm that I wouldn't get any more performance out of buying 800 versus 667? Remember, I'm not planning to overclock.

 

[crucibelle]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you are running FSB at 1:1 with DDR2 667, you WOULD be overclocking. Normal FSB of C2D is 266. Running it 1:1 with DDR 667 would be an FSB of 333.

 

[markymoo]

thats right stick to ddr2 667. save your money. tests with synthetic benchmarks would show increase about 3 to 5% more and about the same fps more in games lol. i can confirm that in games and real usage changing from 667 to 800 (it also depends on timings too but thats another matter) you wont notice any speed increase. your 667 is running asynchronous at 4:5 divider. this usually give better results on 965 chipset. 533 the memory is in sync with the fsb. changing your memory other than 1:1 will usually give you a performance hit but running a 4/5 divider will usually give you a perfomance increase over 1:1. intel cpus have a quad pumped system bus. what be even better if boards gave you option to run lower than 1:1 but that would just benefit overclocking. if your system bus had 1333 instead of 1066 bus then your memory be running at 1:1 which be out next year. so basically if you not overclocking cheap memory is great. im sure millions of pounds been wasted buying expensive memory when theres no need.

@crucibelle
you giving your giving your system more memory bandwidth. your running 667 at 667. running it at 533 would be 1:1. just because the memory is supplying more than the fsb dont mean it overclocking. strictly overclocking is when you run overclock the fsb too. your still running your cpu at default speed. it would not be an fsb of 333 because you still running it at 266. you be only running the memory at 333.

this should help

FSB |FSB |DDR2|DDR2|FSB:RAM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1066 266 533 266 1:1
1066 266 667 333 4:5
1066 266 800 400 2:3
1066 266 1066 533 1:2
1200 300 533 266 8:9
1200 300 667 333 9:10
1200 300 800 400 3:4
1200 300 1066 533 9:16
1333 333 533 266 5:4
1333 333 667 333 1:1
1333 333 800 400 5:6
1333 333 1066 533 5:8
1600 400 533 266 3:2
1600 400 667 333 6:5
1600 400 800 400 1:1
1600 400 1066 533 3:4
2133 533 533 266 2:1
2133 533 667 333 8:5
2133 533 800 400 4:3
2133 533 1066 533 1:1

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: PygmyBBQ

Originally posted by: markymoo
...what you got to concern yourself is that graphics card runs very hot upto 70-100c when you run heavy game on full and the heat is being dumped inside your case...

That's why =(

Not sure about apples and oranges here, but I have an X1950XTX that ran around 72 under full load. Unless you're overclocking the card, I wouldn't worry much about the temps unless you live inside a boiler room.