SEAL falls on grenade to save comrades

[trenchfoot]

Jumping on a grenade is only dumb if you're alone; otherwise, it truly is heroic. there may not be courses to teach you heroics, but jumping on a grenade is a known example of how to sacrifice yourself to save your buddies' lives. I'm not sure that I'd ever have to balls to do it, but I hope that I never have to find out. I also hope that I would find such courage if and when it's needed.

while in 'nam, some of us guys talked about this kind of stuff, especially the paranoid guys holding short sticks. we all came to the same conclusion: it's whatever your reflexes make you do at that instant. it's not like a favorite topic of discussion or anything. but we heard about that kind of stuff happening and mused about it. we decided that when in convoy, we'd stay well away from the gun trucks and/or the trucks hauling fuel or ammo and we'd all just load up on lots of sandbags and hope for the best. some guys tried testing the grenade/sandbag theory out in the bush. by unspoken consensus, we didn't want to know and never found out what the results were of that little field experiment.

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[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I made a change to the OP because I find it disgusting that we have turned a story about a man braver than all of us into a pissing contest about the war and whether it was a smart move for him to jump on a grenade.

Aren't you the same people who bitched like hell when Coulter made her comments about Cleland and are still throwing fits about the Swift Boat Vets and how bad their comments about what Kerry did or didn't do in Vietnam were?

This guy did an incredibly brave thing that may have saved the lives of several of his comrades, let's leave it at that.

Once again the loving, all-encompassing liberals here have shown their true colors.

Some of the responses to both this thread and the one running in OT are deserving of vacations.

I will point out that CaptKirk is, IIRC, a Vietnam combat veteran, whereas I don't recall that you or PJ are veterans at all. That isn't to say you aren't entitled to your opinions, but he is as well, and his may have more basis in military background than yours. Personally I don't think anyone in this thread has said anything worthy of a vacation.

As for the topic at hand, I regard this as a selfless act of heroism, but I don't, contrary to the OP, regard it as a "good story" in any sense. I certainly have great respect for PO2 Mansoor's bravery, and regret his family's loss, however.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I made a change to the OP because I find it disgusting that we have turned a story about a man braver than all of us into a pissing contest about the war and whether it was a smart move for him to jump on a grenade.

Aren't you the same people who bitched like hell when Coulter made her comments about Cleland and are still throwing fits about the Swift Boat Vets and how bad their comments about what Kerry did or didn't do in Vietnam were?

This guy did an incredibly brave thing that may have saved the lives of several of his comrades, let's leave it at that.

Once again the loving, all-encompassing liberals here have shown their true colors.

Some of the responses to both this thread and the one running in OT are deserving of vacations.

That soilder died to help protect EVERYONE'S freedom of speech, not just yours. Give your "holier then thou" flag waving a rest.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I made a change to the OP because I find it disgusting that we have turned a story about a man braver than all of us into a pissing contest about the war and whether it was a smart move for him to jump on a grenade.

Aren't you the same people who bitched like hell when Coulter made her comments about Cleland and are still throwing fits about the Swift Boat Vets and how bad their comments about what Kerry did or didn't do in Vietnam were?

This guy did an incredibly brave thing that may have saved the lives of several of his comrades, let's leave it at that.

Once again the loving, all-encompassing liberals here have shown their true colors.

Some of the responses to both this thread and the one running in OT are deserving of vacations.

I will point out that CaptKirk is, IIRC, a Vietnam combat veteran, whereas I don't recall that you or PJ are veterans at all. That isn't to say you aren't entitled to your opinions, but he is as well, and his may have more basis in military background than yours. Personally I don't think anyone in this thread has said anything worthy of a vacation.

As for the topic at hand, I regard this as a selfless act of heroism, but I don't, contrary to the OP, regard it as a "good story" in any sense. I certainly have great respect for PO2 Mansoor's bravery, and regret his family's loss, however.

First off don't bring me into any pissing contest you are having over being in the service or not.

Second, I said it was a "good" story in the sense that all the media seems to want to talk about is the negative stories coming out of Iraq.
Soldier shots an Iraqi with a gun who is "playing" dead and the media throws a fit and we hear about the story for months.
But when a brave soldier gives his life to save that of his friends it is barely a bump in the road.
I am sure there are far more positive stories about what our men and women are doing in Iraq than there are negative, but the media is more interested in the negative. Just like local news would rather talk about who was killed and raped and less about anything good going on in the community.

 

[CaptnKirk]

The truth is simple really, we lost another soldier. That itself is a sad event. He died acting out a spur of the moment action.
He sacrificed himself, but we'll never know if the time had been there to toss it.
He may or may not have had a chance, he eliminated that possibility.

God Damn it - I lost too many friends and don't like to see anyone else loose battle buddies.

When that instant of decision comes, what drives one to take the big one for the team over chancing an option?
One or two seconds?

There are some that lucked out on simular incidents.
Sometimes surviving is almost worse.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
The truth is simple really, we lost another soldier. That itself is a sad event. He died acting out a spur of the moment action.
He sacrificed himself, but we'll never know if the time had been there to toss it.
He may or may not have had a chance, he eliminated that possibility.

God Damn it - I lost too many friends and don't like to see anyone else loose battle buddies.

When that instant of decision comes, what drives one to take the big one for the team over chancing an option?
One or two seconds?

There are some that lucked out on simular incidents.
Sometimes surviving is almost worse.

Very true. In every WW 2 book I have read the survivors are more upset about the friends they have lost than the fact that they had to kill someone. Very few tell stories about seeing the face of someone they shot in their dreams, but a lot talk about the face of a friend they saw die.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

I regret that anyone's life is being lost in this sorry excuse for a "war on terror." When you send people with weapons to other countries to fight people who also have weapons you end up with dead and hurt people. There is nothing heroic about what this guy did...he is dead and that is all. He now joins the ranks of nearly 3,000 others. The fact that he saved some of his comrades in the process might be classified by some as brave or stupid (or both), but it certainly is not heroic.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
First off don't bring me into any pissing contest you are having over being in the service or not.

Second, I said it was a "good" story in the sense that all the media seems to want to talk about is the negative stories coming out of Iraq.
Soldier shots an Iraqi with a gun who is "playing" dead and the media throws a fit and we hear about the story for months.
But when a brave soldier gives his life to save that of his friends it is barely a bump in the road.
I am sure there are far more positive stories about what our men and women are doing in Iraq than there are negative, but the media is more interested in the negative. Just like local news would rather talk about who was killed and raped and less about anything good going on in the community.

Jesus - the lady doth protest too much! I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, regardless of your military status or lack thereof - in fact I said the direct opposite.

In what sense are you a "professor"?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I said it was a "good" story in the sense that all the media seems to want to talk about is the negative stories coming out of Iraq.

How is this a "Good Story"? It's a sad story which demonstrates how futile the war there is where some of our best and brightest young men are having to sacrifice their lives just to survive. A good story would be that these guys are being shipped home because the hostilities are scaling down instead of increasing daily.

Have you noticed that the NeoCons have dropped the buzzwords "Winning the Hearts and Minds" from their vocabulary? Wow good stories these days have been scaled down to our Soldiers dying and the Iraqi's using the Internet for dating.:roll:

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I said it was a "good" story in the sense that all the media seems to want to talk about is the negative stories coming out of Iraq.

How is this a "Good Story"? It's a sad story which demonstrates who futile the war there is where some of our best and brightest young men are having to sacrifice their lives just to survive. A good story would be that these guys are being shipped home because the hostilities are scaling down instead of increasing daily.

Have you noticed that the NeoCons have dropped the buzzwords "Winning the Hearts and Minds" from their vocabulary? Wow good stories these days have been scaled down to our Soldiers dying and the Iraqi's using the Internet for dating.:roll:

Well said.

 

[Strk]

I wonder if we'll one day have a helmet strong enough so that a soldier can jump on a grenade with the helmet, plus his vest, and live. I remember reading a story about something along those lines, but it just wasn't strong enough to save the soldier.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Strk
I wonder if we'll one day have a helmet strong enough so that a soldier can jump on a grenade with the helmet, plus his vest, and live. I remember reading a story about something along those lines, but it just wasn't strong enough to save the soldier.

That was portrayed in several WWII and Korea movies that were made during the late 50's -
The GI would see the gernade roll in, jump on it with his helmet over it, stiffle the explosion
and get up, dust himself off and they all lived happily ever-after . . a fairytale senario.
We probably actually lost some brave souls who saw those flicks and followed their lead thinking that it would work.
You know what we call those brave souls? - KIA's.
Hollywood portrays bullets through the chest and sholders as 'just a flesh wound'.


Now todays Kevlar Composite helmets can ALMOST - but not quite contain the fragmentation and the
ceramic inserts in the modern vests can add even more resistance, but I wouln't try it - not even on a bet.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I said it was a "good" story in the sense that all the media seems to want to talk about is the negative stories coming out of Iraq.

How is this a "Good Story"? It's a sad story which demonstrates who futile the war there is where some of our best and brightest young men are having to sacrifice their lives just to survive. A good story would be that these guys are being shipped home because the hostilities are scaling down instead of increasing daily.

Have you noticed that the NeoCons have dropped the buzzwords "Winning the Hearts and Minds" from their vocabulary? Wow good stories these days have been scaled down to our Soldiers dying and the Iraqi's using the Internet for dating.:roll:

Exactly. I'm sick and tired of the "good news" babies wailing and crying because they don't get their way and the media won't show what they want them to show. News flash: The Iraqis don't give two craps about how many schools you've built when their friends and family are getting shot in the streets and blown up on a daily basis. Without security, you have a whole lot of nothing.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I said it was a "good" story in the sense that all the media seems to want to talk about is the negative stories coming out of Iraq.

How is this a "Good Story"? It's a sad story which demonstrates who futile the war there is where some of our best and brightest young men are having to sacrifice their lives just to survive. A good story would be that these guys are being shipped home because the hostilities are scaling down instead of increasing daily.

Have you noticed that the NeoCons have dropped the buzzwords "Winning the Hearts and Minds" from their vocabulary? Wow good stories these days have been scaled down to our Soldiers dying and the Iraqi's using the Internet for dating.:roll:

Exactly. I'm sick and tired of the "good news" babies wailing and crying because they don't get their way and the media won't show what they want them to show. News flash: The Iraqis don't give two craps about how many schools you've built when their friends and family are getting shot in the streets and blown up on a daily basis. Without security, you have a whole lot of nothing.

Ask yourself - would you send you sons and daughters to these schools when the chances are extremely high
that they will be killed or wounded on the way to school, while in school, or coming back from the school?
Will you send you wife and kids to the store for some munchies or drinks when the chances of them making it back alive are slim to none?
Quite a 'democracy' that we have unleashed on these unsuspecting people.
Works better than abortion and birth control - same effect, just retroactively accomplished.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Strk
I wonder if we'll one day have a helmet strong enough so that a soldier can jump on a grenade with the helmet, plus his vest, and live. I remember reading a story about something along those lines, but it just wasn't strong enough to save the soldier.

I imagine you may know what a thunder stick is? It's used to simulate a grenade in military exercises. It has the contents of 1/4 stick of dynamite. To show us what so tiny of an exploison can do, a senior Sgt. borrowed on of the recruit's helmets in my unit and put it over the stick. The freaking helmet flew about 5 or 6 stories into the air before it came back down. The metal helmet was bent out of shape.

That wasn't even a handgrenade. Personally I wouldn't want to try to sit on it when one goes off regardless of what the helmet is made out of.

They also told us that the fuse from a grenade, which is just a weak *puff* when it goes off, is powerful enough to blow off all your fingers possibly severing your hand if you held it. Apparently that knowledge came from some idiot who didn't toss it after pulling the pin. Essentially it's like a firecracker.