Seagate Warranty Does Not Cover OEM Drives?!

[ddarko]

I bought an Seagate 7200.11 1TB OEM drive a couple months ago from Newegg but it looks like it's gone bad. I called Seagate today to get a repair under the warranty but Seagate told me they don't warranty OEM drives bought by the end users. What?! Newegg explicitly says on their site that this OEM model drive is covered by a 5-year warranty direct from Seagate but Seagate said that any warranty is only available to the OEM that bought the drive from Seagate originally, not to a retailer customer like me or even to Newegg, which bought the drive from the OEM. They advised me to contact Newegg to see what it says, which I'm going to do when it opens today, but I have a bad feeling that I'm going to get the runaround and Newegg is going to tell me to contact Seagate. Catch-22. Anyone ever get warranty service from Seagate on their OEM hard drives? Is it possible Newegg is selling these drives under false premises, claiming that they're warrantied by Seagate when in fact they're not? It's hard to believe Newegg would do something so egregious but that's what Seagate tells me.

p.s. Seagate also said that based on my drive's serial number, the original OEM warranty had also expired so that even the OEM can't get warranty service for this drive! How can a drive bought 4 months ago no longer have a warranty?

 

[Billb2]

How much did you save by buying an OEM drive?

OEM is a good deal, I've done it many times. It's just that when things go bad, they can go really bad.

I'd go ahead and made the argument to theegg anyway.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: ddarko


p.s. Seagate also said that based on my drive's serial number, the original OEM warranty had also expired so that even the OEM can't get warranty service for this drive! How can a drive bought 4 months ago no longer have a warranty?

Warranty goes by build date, item sits on shelf. I see this with laptops that are sold at Costco and other retailers all the time.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: mooseracing
Warranty goes by build date, item sits on shelf. I see this with laptops that are sold at Costco and other retailers all the time.

Nope, Seagate warranties start on the date of purchase for retail or bulk drives. OEM drives start from the date of shipment to the OEM account.

This is not the first time I've read about this particular problem. Apparently, this drive was purchased as surplus from an OEM account, not direct from Seagate. Or perhaps a distributor purchased the drives back from an OEM account, then sold them to Newegg without Newegg realizing they were originally issued to an OEM account. Or maybe Newegg is unloading some of the OEM drives it purchased for use in ABS brand computers and the sales people didn't realize there was any difference, I don't know.

Either way, its Newegg's problem. BTW, why are you telephoning Seagate? Use their online Warranty Check by Serial and Model/Part #. The support person may have been mistaken.

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Either way, its Newegg's problem. BTW, why are you telephoning Seagate? Use their online Warranty Check by Serial # and online RMA request. The support person may have been mistaken.

Thanks for your informative reply. I only called Seagate because the online warranty page told me that my drive wasn't covered by the warranty.

I haven't had time to contact Newegg yet but this seems to be an impossible situation for the end customer. We have no idea where Newegg gets its drives so we can be sold a drive that has no warranty? You're right, this is completely Newegg's problem to solve but I'm afraid they're not going to see it that way and try to shift responsibility to Seagate. Something tells me the customer rep I talk to isn't going to appreciate the nuances of this. If so, I'm going to be contacting my state's attorney general because it is nothing but consumer fraud: advertising and selling products as having a manufacturer's warranty when in fact they don't. Given the huge volume Newegg must do selling OEM hard drives, it stuns me they would engage in this practice.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: ddarko
I only called Seagate because the online warranty page told me that my drive wasn't covered by the warranty.

Ah, got it. If your initial contact with Newegg isn't responsive, just request escalation to a support or CSR manager.

 

[RebateMonger]

My understanding of Seagate's OEM drive warranty is exactly the same as tscenter's understanding.

Yeah, it's not unheard of to get warranty surprises when checking Seagate's (or other drive maker's) warranty sites. I've even heard of this happening with Retail drives on occasion, too.

 

[tcsenter]

Well the point is that you aren't supposed to be getting OEM Seagate drives through any first-tier retailer or etailer. This is grey market product you find from discounter/surplus type resellers such as Computer Geeks or Surplus Computers.

Although Newegg uses the term OEM, this is not the same "OEM" product to which Seagate is referring. These drives are shipped direct to a specific OEM account under special OEM terms or purchasing agreements, much like the OEM motherboards or graphics cards that ASUS ships to HP (and subsequently find their way onto the surplus type market).

These drives are not supposed to be diverted and resold on the open market to end-users, at least not without disclosure that they aren't covered by Seagate.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: ddarko
If so, I'm going to be contacting my state's attorney general because it is nothing but consumer fraud: advertising and selling products as having a manufacturer's warranty when in fact they don't. Given the huge volume Newegg must do selling OEM hard drives, it stuns me they would engage in this practice.

I don't blame you at all. That's exactly what I would do myself. Although, actually I'd call my brother first, and have him give them a call; he's a senior partner @ his law firm.

 

[RebateMonger]

I'm not sure why you'd bother with a lawyer over a $150 hard drive warranty. The $150 is about the cost of a consuting call to the lawyer. An email to Newegg will likely straighten it out.

Hard drive warranties (unless you use a TON of them) are pretty worthless anyway, since the cost of the drives themselves is so tiny compared to the cost of their failure, which the drive maker won't pay for.

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
I'm not sure why you'd bother with a lawyer over a $150 hard drive warranty. The $150 is about the cost of a consuting call to the lawyer. An email to Newegg will likely straighten it out.

Hard drive warranties (unless you use a TON of them) are pretty worthless anyway, since the cost of the drives themselves is so tiny compared to the cost of their failure, which the drive maker won't pay for.

I spoke to Newegg last night and it's going to replace the bad drive. Big relief. I spoke to the rep a bit about the warranty issue and he wasn't sure whether Seagate was right in saying it doesn't offer a warranty to end users for OEM drives. He said he'd pass a request to the appropriate department to investigate and if Newegg's manufacturer's warranty claim was wrong, it'd would be changed.

Presumably, if it's true that Newegg has been falsely claiming hard drives have manufacturer's warranties when they don't, any one person suing Newegg could petition to turn it into a class action lawsuit. So the sums of money involved would be a lot bigger than $150.

Whether or not the cost of data recovery far exceeds the cost of physically replacing the drive is beside the point. This has nothing to do with whether hard drive warranty are worthwhile. The problem is that it's against the law for a retailer to sell a product by claiming it has something when it doesn't. Many people may decide to buy OEM drives even if they don't have a manufacturer's warranty because the odds are hard drives won't fail within the warranty period. But others may have a lower appetite for risk and go for a retail drive at a higher price. Both are valid choices but people need truthful info to make these decisions. And it doesn't seem to be widely known or understood that OEM drives may not have any manufacturer's warranty. Just do a search on this forum and you come up with a ton of posts which claim that OEM drives have the same manufacturer's warranty as retail drives, which is completely understandable because practically every retailer who sells OEM drives says they are covered by a manufacturer's warranty. To find out that may not true is a big surprise.

 

[RebateMonger]

This is interesting: Seagate OEM Warranty Statements

"How Long Does the Coverage Last?
Seagate will publish a warranty period for each product (the ?Product?) as part of the Product and price list. The warranty period for each Product begins on the date of shipment to the OEM customer. For Product sold to a Seagate OEM customer (?OEM?), the standard warranty period is three (3) years for Notebook and Desktop drives and five (5) years for Enterprise and Nearline drives."

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
This is interesting: Seagate OEM Warranty Statements

"Is the Warranty Assignable?
The limited warranty extends only to the OEM and may not be assigned or transferred without Seagate?s consent. The OEM must clearly state in its contracts or warranty statements for its end-users that any product warranty to its end-users is from OEM and not from Seagate."

Originally posted by: ddarko
Presumably, if it's true that Newegg has been falsely claiming hard drives have manufacturer's warranties when they don't, any one person suing Newegg could petition to turn it into a class action lawsuit. So the sums of money involved would be a lot bigger than $150.

Had you attempted to approach this as a simple mistake vis-a-vis the scenarios I offered above rather than getting yourself all whipped up to expect some vast conspiracy to commit fraud by one of the largest and most reputable etailers in the world, this discussion probably could have arrived at the post where you indicate a successful resolution without a half-dozen posts dropping terms like lawsuit, attorney general, consumer fraud, and false advertising even before you contacted Newegg.

It doesn't seem you have read much of the replies to your own thread. OEM is not OEM is not OEM. Generally speaking, there are two different OEM product forms; closed market (private) OEM and open market (public) OEM.

Private (closed market) OEM products are those manufactured for or shipped to a particular OEM customer intended for use in the production of another product that will be marketed under the OEM's brand or label, not resold unmodified by the OEM like retail. This definition customarily was better known in the computer hardware or software market until several years ago, when things started to become muddled and confusing due to inconsistent or different use. These may or may not be identical to the manufacturer's own-branded 'retail' product. An example are the optical drives used by large OEMs with customized/modified firmware, or OEM motherboards with customized/modified BIOS. Any warranty is extended to the OEM and generally not assignable to end-users.

Public (open market) OEM products are historically better known as white box, bulk pack, or system builder products, not OEM. These are not manufactured for or shipped to any particular OEM customer but are distributed through the channel and may be purchased by resellers, system integrators, and other computer businesses who either may use them in their own product (e.g. custom security DVR system or computer), or may resell them to end-users unmodified like retail. These are usually identical to the manufacturer's own-branded 'retail' product. An example is genuine Intel OEM or bulk pack motherboards that use the same production release BIOS for Intel retail boards and optical drives that accept the 'retail' firmware. The warranty is usually extended or assignable to the end-user.

Newegg and other first-tier resellers typically do not resell private OEM products but Seagate is of the opinion that you received one of its private OEM drives for some reason or another.

 

[RebateMonger]

As a data point, I just checked one of my 2-year-old OEM Seagate 320 GB 7200.10 drives (purchased in 2006). I bought a dozen of these from Newegg.com.

Seagate's Warranty Check site knows about it and says the wrranty expires in July, 2011 (five years).

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Newegg and other first-tier resellers typically do not resell private OEM products but Seagate is of the opinion that you received one of its private OEM drives for some reason or another.

That's what I'd guess has happened. As you (tscenter) point out, bulk OEM drives don't necessarily have the same warranty as OEM drives sold through large system builders. A drive that goes into an IBM or Dell PC isn't necessarily covered by Seagate's warranty at all and any warranty work must be arranged by the system builder.

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Newegg and other first-tier resellers typically do not resell private OEM products but Seagate is of the opinion that you received one of its private OEM drives for some reason or another.

"Seagate is of the opinion..."?! For someone upset at the invocation of lawsuits, lawyers, fraud, etc, you sure like to use lawyerly, artfully crafted language. I prefer plain and direct language. Fact: Newegg sold me a private OEM drive (Seagate's "opinion" is the only one that matters; if Seagate says that based on the serial number, I got a private OEM drive, then I got a private OEM drive). The practical effect is that this drive does not have a warranty. No matter how you spin it, what I got doesn't match what I was sold. Seagate won't touch this drive, no matter how much I plead or beg or tell them Newegg told me it is covered by a warranty. Now I'm happy Newegg has agreed to replace the drive on its own but that doesn't change the fact the drive didn't have a warranty.

In my posts, I couched my language in "if this is true" and other qualifiers. I don't know if this is something that slipped accidentally through the cracks or whether it's a systematic, deliberate practice by Newegg, to sell private OEM drives when they should only be selling public OEM drives. You yourself in the first post mentioned that I'm not the first person who you've heard had this problem so obviously I'm not unique. As I said and will say again, if this is policy, then Newegg is most certainly committing consumer fraud and it should be sued by every state attorney general in the country. Even if it's not policy, it may be that Newegg's controls are too lax and too many private OEM drives are being sold to customers. I'm don't know.

You seem to find it insulting to even suggest the possibility that "one of the largest and most reputable etailers in the world" could do such a thing. I think there's nothing about the size of a business that immunizes it against shady practices. How many large and reputable retailers have ripped off consumers with mail-in rebate shenanigans? How about Best Buy playing "hide the Internet price" in their in-store kiosks until they got sued by a bunch of states? Being big does not predispose you to engaging in bad practices but it also doesn't mean it's unlikely either. I certainly won't stand to be scolded by you for raising the possibility. You're not my parent. If I want to raise the specter of fraud, false advertising, lawsuits, etc, I will. As I wrote before, I appreciate your informative reply highlighting the existence of two different types of OEM dives but your knowledge of this subject does not entitled you to a veto over the issues I choose to address in my posts.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: ddarko
Now I'm happy Newegg has agreed to replace the drive on its own but that doesn't change the fact the drive didn't have a warranty.

This statement is a marvel of contradiction. If there is in effect no warranty from any party, who is replacing your drive, the tooth fairy?

Had this drive been covered by Seagate's warranty, you would most likely be getting a refurbished unit as a replacement. Be careful what you wish for.

You yourself in the first post mentioned that I'm not the first person who you've heard had this problem so obviously I'm not unique.

I said there were other cases, I did not say those cases involved Newegg:

Ebuyer UK

CDW US

But I certainly won't be scolded that it should only be addressed in the manner that pleases you. You're not my parent. If I want to raise the specter of fraud, false advertising, lawsuits, etc, I will; you don't get to pre-screen my posts.

Obviously, since I'm not a moderator. And yes, you will be scolded for conducting yourself in a juvenile and asinine manner. It is your right to act childish and its my right to say you're acting childish.

 

[ddarko]

LOL. What's that sound? Oh right, it's your glass house shattering when you threw the stone from the inside. Kettle, black? Any other metaphors that draw attention the hypocrisy of your ugly, personal insults? You're too funny.

This statement is a marvel of contradiction. If there is in effect no warranty from any party, who is replacing your drive, the tooth fairy?

Again, LOL. Your feeble distortion made me laugh out loud. As you well know, my criticism is that the hard drive doesn't have a MANUFACTURER'S warranty. Newegg advertises these drives as having a MANUFACTURER'S warranty and the one they sold me doesn't. You advertise a product has a manufacturer's warranty, you're obliged to sell a product that has a manufacturer's warranty. The fact that Newegg agreed to replace it doesn't cut it. It's a really simple idea: you deliver what you promise. End of story. It's a marvel this simple idea is so objectionable to you. Sorry the law and common sense get in the way of your excuses and distortions.

I have 2 other OEM 7200.11 drives bought from Newegg. Out of curiosity, I just entered them into the Seagate warranty page. One of them does indeed have a warranty to Nov 27, 2012. The other, however, has no warranty. So 2/3 of the OEM drives Newegg sold to me over a period of 6 months don't have manufacturer's warranties, didn't match what Newegg said they did. You really want to insist that lightning struck twice? Go ahead, continue sticking your head in the sand and pretend to see no evil, hear no evil. I'm sorry you seem to have such a strange emotional attachment to a retailer that you'd rather ignore and dismiss facts and personally attack someone who raises concerns. What seems to enrage bullies like you is when the target fights back. Sorry that I don't play along and accept your bullying.

I'd be curious to see other people's warranty results with their 7200.11 drives.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: ddarko
I have 2 other OEM 7200.11 drives bought from Newegg. Out of curiosity, I just entered them into the Seagate warranty page. One of them does indeed have a warranty to Nov 27, 2012. The other, however, has no warranty.

Well sure, because when companies commit massive consumer fraud, they typically instruct their employees to pull for orders based on the customary "two-thirds rule" of interweaving fraudulent-to-genuine product. This way, there is only a 66% chance of any one drive being fraudulent rather than some other number like 10% or 100%. There's just something magical about 66% that makes it fraudulicious.

This is facilitated for employees by creating two pallets of drives, one labeled "fraudulent" and the other labeled "genuine". As the employees pull for the order, they pull 66% from the fraudulent pallet and 33% from the genuine pallet. For automated pull systems, this would be programmed into the computer under the 'two-thirds fraud interweave' feature.

This is so much more plausible and likely than, say, some ludicrous scenario involving a quantity of private OEM drives being diverted and unwittingly purchased by a reseller, who places them into their stock, or may receive a mixed shipment, from which drives might get pulled in a random or inconsistent manner, with some orders receiving only genuine channel drives and other orders receiving multiple non-channel OEM drives.

No, it makes more sense it would happen the other way because trying to fool them 66% of the time is sooo much more likely to go unnoticed than 10% of the time. If you're going to commit fraud, go big and obvious. Oh, and it is customary when comitting fraud to leave a paper trail a mile long documenting conclusively that you advertised something different than you delivered. Fraud School 101.

 

[ddarko]

OMG, it just gets funnier. I guess a company can only commit wrong if it screws everyone 100% of the time. If it doesn't screw everyone all the time, there's no evidence of anything wrong. Nope, not at all. And if a company repeatedly and over an extended period of time sells drives that it shouldn't, that doesn't mean Newegg has a serious problem with inventory control, nope, not at all. Even though Newegg sold me two drives without manufacturer's warranties, I should be ashamed for suggesting something's wrong at Newegg. Bad me!

Stick my fingers in my ears, shut my eyes, start rocking and chanting...."Newegg is perfect, Newegg is perfect...."

 

[RebateMonger]

I'm not sure of the point of making accusations. It's not clear whether the problem is with Newegg or with Seagate or with a distributor in between. I've also seen this same problem with RETAIL-boxed Western Digital drives from (the former) CompUSA. and have heard of occasional issues with other retail and OEM drives over the years.

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
It's not clear whether the problem is with Newegg or with Seagate or with a distributor in between. I've also seen this same problem with RETAIL-boxed Western Digital drives from (the former) CompUSA. and have heard of occasional issues with other retail and OEM drives over the years.

Fair enough, the source of this problem is unknown. However, at the end of the day, it's Newegg that's selling products to the public that don't match their promised specs. Maybe Newegg thinks the drives it's getting from its distributors have warranties but the distributors are delivering the drives without warranties. Newegg then has a legitimate beef with its distributors but that doesn't relieve Newegg of liability for selling those wrong drives to the public, even if it didn't know it was selling wrong drives. Whether or not it's deliberate or inadvertent, rare or widespread, when a retailer sells a product that doesn't match its promise, it's wrong and illegal.

 

[nyker96]

after reading you post here's how I interpret this. It simply means Seagate expect you to return the drive to newegg for warranty services. As some items on newegg I have found that the original manufacture expect you to send the product back to newegg then they will honor the warranty that way. I'm not sure why they do this, maybe for simpler logistics but some does that.

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: nyker96
after reading you post here's how I interpret this. It simply means Seagate expect you to return the drive to newegg for warranty services. As some items on newegg I have found that the original manufacture expect you to send the product back to newegg then they will honor the warranty that way. I'm not sure why they do this, maybe for simpler logistics but some does that.

You're right, there are some items that Newegg directly provides the warranty service but those items are explicitly marked as such. The Seagate OEM 7200.11 drives aren't like that; Newegg explicitly states they have manufacturer's warranty and it even says contact Seagate for warranty. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, 1 of the 3 drives that I own does have a valid Seagate warranty. The problem is that Newegg's inventory control is poor and it's sending customers drives that don't have warranties.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Yeah, it's not unheard of to get warranty surprises when checking Seagate's (or other drive maker's) warranty sites. I've even heard of this happening with Retail drives on occasion, too.

Yup, we've even discussed here at Anandtech forums!

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...did=1943526&arctab=arc

I personally had several retail boxed Seagate drives which (according to Seagate) had no end-user warranty.

 

[NesuD]

Look this is all very nice and I have been impressed by all the witty repartee but facts are:

customer bought drive from newegg
drive specs include a 5 year manufacturers warranty
manufacturer refuses to honor warranty
Newegg makes things right by replacing the drive.

Newegg sells a huge volume of white box drives. They get those drives through brokers. Those drives are supposed to have manufacturer warranties. Sometimes there is a mistake and some private oem drives slip through. It is not intentional or criminal. It has happened before with Newegg and Newegg has always reacted quickly to make things right with their customer. I don't see how anyone can reasonably ask for more than that.