SDNY fingers Trump and his campaign.

[skull]

It gets even worse

Cohen’s submission suggests that this was but a brief error in judgment. Not so. Cohen knew exactly where the line was, and he chose deliberately and repeatedly to cross it. Indeed, he was a licensed attorney with significant political experience and a history of campaign donations, and who was well - aware of the election laws. 11 In fact, Cohen publicly and privately took credit for Individual-1’s political success, claiming – in a conversation that he secretly recorded – that he “started the whole thing . . . started the whole campaign” in 2012 when Individual-1 expressed an interest in running for President. Moreover, not only was Cohen well aware of what he was doing, but he used sophisticated tactics to conceal his misconduct. He arranged one of the payments through a media company and disguised it as a services contract, and executed the second non-disclosure agreement with aliases and routed the six - figure payment through a shell corporation. After the election, he arranged for his own reimbursement via fraudulent invoices for non-existent legal services ostensibly performed pursuant to a non-existent “retainer” agreement. And even when public reports of the payments began to surface, Cohen told shifting and misleading stories about the nature of the payment, his coordination with the candidate, and the fact that he was reimbursed.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yes we are now at a point where it can no longer be argued that there’s no evidence of the president committing felonies. The only question now is how many.

Indeed. Our play is not yet done, and no action Trump can take can stop this.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It gets even worse

Maddow had a great show about this. You might have a look.

 

[Jhhnn]

I guess we will see, but the idea that it’s okay to cheat to win an election is okay so long as you win is baffling to me.

That’s what we should focus on: he very likely would have lost if he didn’t commit those felonies. That matters.

The GOP leadership is fine with democracy becoming a sham, so long as they win. It's what gerrymandering & voter suppression are all about. It's what the efforts of lame duck GOP admins in WI, MI & NC are all about, too.

McConnell's efforts wrt the SCOTUS are no different. GOP strategy to hold the Senate with a minority of votes is much the same.

 

[Sunburn74]

Except there isnt evidence campaign money was used,

Oops

So Cohen went to jail for fun and federal prosecutors are simply mistaken. Got it.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So Cohen went to jail for fun and federal prosecutors are simply mistaken. Got it.

Not to mention the judge who just decided to let someone plead guilty to something that wasn't a crime...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The GOP leadership is fine with democracy becoming a sham, so long as they win. It's what gerrymandering & voter suppression are all about. It's what the efforts of lame duck GOP admins in WI, MI & NC are all about, too.

McConnell's efforts wrt the SCOTUS are no different. GOP strategy to hold the Senate with a minority of votes is much the same.

We've been into this before but it's time to criminally prosecute Trump and there is no SCOTUS ruling that prevents this, just a memo. If the SCOTUS says "Trump cannot hold his Office to remain immune" then let Trump be President in jail. If he cannot keep up with the duties of the Presidency then Reps will vote to remove him in the Senate or be the Party of Prison Presidents. Have a fit? Oh yeah.

If the SCOTUS says no to indictment and prosecution then we have grounds to say that legal remedies per legislation/amendments need to happen.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Lol..individual 1 is really losing it. There he goes again ripping somebody about military service when he never served. Would one of his lackys get him away from the TV for christ sake!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071479079558213632?s=19

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Lol..individual 1 is really losing it. There he goes again ripping somebody's military service when he never served. Would one of his lackys get him away from the TV for christ sake!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071479079558213632?s=19

Gratuitous use of image inbound!

 

[blackangst1]

View attachment 1380

Cute comic but its still not illegal to pay someone to keep silent in this context.

 

[UberNeuman]

Not to mention the judge who just decided to let someone plead guilty to something that wasn't a crime...

“Your Honor, my client is innocent of all these charges because he said he didn’t do it and stuff! I rest my case. Okay?”

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Cute comic but its still not illegal to pay someone to keep silent in this context.

Yes, it is.

Let me spell it out for you. You can not give, loan etc... something of value to a campaign without declaring it. You can't conspire with someone else to give something to that campaign and hide the source of it. In this case the thing of value was silence for something damaging. He then had his business pay Cohen back which puts the business as the contributor.

That is, without question, illegal.

 

[zzyzxroad]

lol at you.

I guess federal witness testimony is suddenly not evidence for you. because that's how your species works?

whoops.
Suddenly, the fact that SDNY and the Feds have now officially cast the president as a felon, isn't a thing for you.

You get that, right? Do you understand that this is actually what has happened?

Do you understand that? Yes or no?

Did he miss this question? Don't see an answer yet.

 

[blackangst1]

It's time to throw in the towel. "There isn't evidence"- yes there is evidence that a felony was committed and Cohen is going to prison for this crime. "Trump's money, campaign money"- we are way past that old debate. This isn't me or you or anyone else saying there's a crime. There's a crime full stop.

The SDNY has come out and said that Trump directed this criminal act which is a criminal act itself. The only possible defense I suggest you don't bet the farm on is ignorance of wrongdoing. That's going to be a virtually impossible defense to maintain because of Trump's actions and statements. "No I didn't know" casts doubt on that immediately and if that isn't enough remember this is a DOJ district office coming out and implicating Trump. Yes they did because if they wished they could have omitted the mentioning anyone but Cohen.

There is a crime and no two ways about that and Trump was implicated.

No matter what your politics you have to consider the facts of the matter as they exist, not as one might like and make a stand for or against a criminal in office, who would be charged exactly as Cohen if he weren't President. Pick any President in history- any- and they ought to face the consequences of confirmed criminal conduct. Why should we make an exemption for Trump?

If campaign money was used, its a crime. If not, its not. Again. Theres no evidence campaign money was used despite your word salad saying it is.

 

[blackangst1]

Yes, it is.

Let me spell it out for you. You can not give something of value to a campaign without declaring it. You can't conspire with someone else to give something to that campaign and hide the source of it. In this case the thing of value was silence for something damaging.

That is, without question, illegal.

Wheres the evidence campaign money was used?

edit: lets wait and see what the FBI says shall we? https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...-stormy-daniels-payoff-was-it-campaign-expen/

 

[TheVrolok]

If campaign money was used, its a crime. If not, its not. Again. Theres no evidence campaign money was used despite your word salad saying it is.

What you are saying is incorrect as already pointed out in this thread.

 

[blackangst1]

What you are saying is incorrect as already pointed out in this thread.

OK.

 

[TheVrolok]

OK.

I should have written misinformed, instead of incorrect which would have been accurate. It's weird that you keep saying "campaign money." The gist was that you're arguing the wrong point. I suppose if you're OK with being wrong, that's just dandy.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Wheres the evidence campaign money was used?

It doesn't have to be campaign money. It's any money that influences anything related to a federal campaign. Cohen paid the woman off, then the Trump Organization paid him back.

In essence the Trump Org. made the contribution directly to the campaign at Trump's direction.

 

[blackangst1]

It doesn't have to be campaign money. It's any money that influences anything related to a federal campaign. Cohen paid the woman off, then the Trump Organization paid him back.

In essence the Trump Org. made the contribution directly to the campaign at Trump's direction.

Citation?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Citation?

Let me go further. Here's the rules and reporting requirements that Trump would have had to follow if he was personally contributing to the campaign.

https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates...king-receipts/using-personal-funds-candidate/

Here's the definition of the different type of contributions.

https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/types-contributions/

Here's the definition of an in-kind contributions and their limits which the payment to Daniels would be classified as.

https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates...nts-pac/making-kind-contributions-candidates/

Here is the filing by the SDNY where Cohen admits to violating these laws and names Trump as the person who directed him to do so.

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/r9LB3o8gW4oI/v0

During the campaign, Cohen played a central role in two similar schemes to purchase the rights to stories – each from women who claimed to have had an affair with Individual-1 – so as to suppress the stories and thereby prevent them from influencing the election. With respect to both payments, Cohen acted with the intent to influence the 2016 presidential election. Cohen coordinated his actions with one or more members of the campaign, including through meetings and phone calls, about the fact, nature, and timing of the payments. (PSR ¶ 51). In particular, and as Cohen himself has now admitted, with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1. (PSR ¶¶ 41, 45). As a result of Cohen’s actions, neither woman spoke to the press prior to the election

Individual-1 is cited in the filing as being the POTUS specifically.

Previous court filings confirm the Trump Organization paid Cohen $420,000 for these settlements which were specifically to influence the campaign. Those were not reported.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-organization-paid-cohen-fake-invoices-1085189

 

[Jhhnn]

Sometimes I just don't know how our conservative brethen can be so blind. It really bothers me a Helluva lot more than Trump himself.

It's like some form of mass hypnosis or something, a state of mind that is, uhh, deplorable.

It's a reflexive defense by people who really can think better than that. I mean, how can a regular person say something isn't illegal when our best federal prosecutors say it is?

I seriously doubt they'd have made this public if they didn't think they have an airtight case. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

 

[K1052]

Cute comic but its still not illegal to pay someone to keep silent in this context.

Next you’re going to tell me it’s legal to bribe a foreign government.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Sometimes I just don't know how our conservative brethen can be so blind. It really bothers me a Helluva lot more than Trump himself.

It's like some form of mass hypnosis or something, a state of mind that is, uhh, deplorable.

It's a reflexive defense by people who really can think better than that. I mean, how can a regular person say something isn't illegal when our best federal prosecutors say it is?

I seriously doubt they'd have made this public if they didn't think they have an airtight case. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

I just can't even believe we are having this type of discussion when someone plead guilty. How can you plead guilty if there's no crime?! That's some strong denial.

 

[blackangst1]

It's time to throw in the towel. "There isn't evidence"- yes there is evidence that a felony was committed and Cohen is going to prison for this crime. "Trump's money, campaign money"- we are way past that old debate. This isn't me or you or anyone else saying there's a crime. There's a crime full stop.

The SDNY has come out and said that Trump directed this criminal act which is a criminal act itself. The only possible defense I suggest you don't bet the farm on is ignorance of wrongdoing. That's going to be a virtually impossible defense to maintain because of Trump's actions and statements. "No I didn't know" casts doubt on that immediately and if that isn't enough remember this is a DOJ district office coming out and implicating Trump. Yes they did because if they wished they could have omitted the mentioning anyone but Cohen.

There is a crime and no two ways about that and Trump was implicated.

No matter what your politics you have to consider the facts of the matter as they exist, not as one might like and make a stand for or against a criminal in office, who would be charged exactly as Cohen if he weren't President. Pick any President in history- any- and they ought to face the consequences of confirmed criminal conduct. Why should we make an exemption for Trump?

Then let the charges proceed