Question Screws won't turn, can't open case!

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BoomerD

BoomerD

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Looked at the manual and a couple of videos. Those screws look like standard "rightie-tightie, lefty loosy" phillips head (or maybe JIS) screws...just make sure you have a good quality, properly sized screwdriver. I hesitate to recommend any kind of penetrating oil on something like that. There may possibly be some kind of gunk or sealant on the threads...so some good torque may be required.
 
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mindless1

mindless1

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Yeah, you need a better screwdriver, or more muscle in which case put it up against a wall so it can't go anywhere, and get a screwdriver with a squared portion on the shank and use a wrench or pliers/etc to get more leverage.

If you've already badly chewed up the screw heads, if they aren't recessed then you could use a rotary tool to cut a slot in them for a standard screwdriver, or if they are recessed then either the slot and deface the case there, or just drill them out... I mean only drill the head off, better to not drill the whole screw out and have carnage and shards of metal inside the case.

Also, it is best to open and test things soon after they arrive so you are within the seller's return period... especially when something that costs a few hundred $.
 
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Jimminy

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If all else fails, put the case up against a solid stop (wall etc) and use a manual impact driver (You hit the tool with a hammer ... It will put one _hell_ of a torque on the screw). Be sure you select a bit that fits the screw head tightly as possible. Hold the tool tightly engaged with the screw and whack with a good sized hammer. Motorcycle mechanics used these years ago to loosen stubborn engine case screws, etc.
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

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Jimminy said:
If all else fails, put the case up against a solid stop (wall etc) and use a manual impact driver (You hit the tool with a hammer ... It will put one _hell_ of a torque on the screw). Be sure you select a bit that fits the screw head tightly as possible. Hold the tool tightly engaged with the screw and whack with a good sized hammer. Motorcycle mechanics used these years ago to loosen stubborn engine case screws, etc.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure the case will withstand the impact of an impact driver.
 
J

Jimminy

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BoomerD said:
I'm not sure the case will withstand the impact of an impact driver.
Click to expand...
That's a possibility Boomer. There are some damn flimsy cases these days :) You could end up with some small dents to fix. In that case, use a dolly or something heavy steel to back up the sheet metal and hammer out the dent, like an auto body mechanic.

The point is to try to recover an otherwise useless case. Logically, if it cannot be opened, collateral damage is acceptable.

I would start with a 16 Oz hammer, swung only 10-12". You can vary the force and swing to see if any damage occurs. Sometimes, several blows will jar the fastener loose.

In the end game, if the case has only scrap metal value since it can't be opened, there is nothing to loose by giving it a mighty blow to crack the screws loose. :)
 
NewSilkTurtle

NewSilkTurtle

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Apr 8, 2002
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BoomerD said:
Looked at the manual and a couple of videos. Those screws look like standard "rightie-tightie, lefty loosy" phillips head (or maybe JIS) screws...just make sure you have a good quality, properly sized screwdriver. I hesitate to recommend any kind of penetrating oil on something like that. There may possibly be some kind of gunk or sealant on the threads...so some good torque may be required.
Click to expand...
They seem to have Frearson heads. I cannot find a screwdriver that has four points, a flat tip like a star bit has (which is what will be needed due to how shallow the cuts in the screw head are) and a handle long enough to supply the leverage needed for this long of a screw that must have been treated with loctite.

mindless1 said:
Yeah, you need a better screwdriver, or more muscle in which case put it up against a wall so it can't go anywhere, and get a screwdriver with a squared portion on the shank and use a wrench or pliers/etc to get more leverage.

If you've already badly chewed up the screw heads, if they aren't recessed then you could use a rotary tool to cut a slot in them for a standard screwdriver, or if they are recessed then either the slot and deface the case there, or just drill them out... I mean only drill the head off, better to not drill the whole screw out and have carnage and shards of metal inside the case.

Also, it is best to open and test things soon after they arrive so you are within the seller's return period... especially when something that costs a few hundred $.
Click to expand...

I wasn't able to get it done quickly enough to return.

I tried using a wrench as you suggest. Those babies aren't budging without the sort of tool I described above — which doesn't seem to exist. The closest thing would be a Standoff driver but without the projecting spike in the center of the tip and with a long enough handle.

If there's another tool that I don't know about and you do, please share... I tried a flat head and it didn't work. BTW the screw heads are not chewed up yet, and not recessed.

I wouldn't trust myself using a drill, and I don't know what a rotary tool is. I sent a support ticket to ASRock and they never replied.
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

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NewSilkTurtle said:
They seem to have Frearson heads. I cannot find a screwdriver that has four points, a flat tip like a star bit has (which is what will be needed due to how shallow the cuts in the screw head are) and a handle long enough to supply the leverage needed for this long of a screw that must have been treated with loctite.



I wasn't able to get it done quickly enough to return.

I tried using a wrench as you suggest. Those babies aren't budging without the sort of tool I described above — which doesn't seem to exist. The closest thing would be a Standoff driver but without the projecting spike in the center of the tip and with a long enough handle.

If there's another tool that I don't know about and you do, please share... I tried a flat head and it didn't work. BTW the screw heads are not chewed up yet, and not recessed.

I wouldn't trust myself using a drill, and I don't know what a rotary tool is. I sent a support ticket to ASRock and they never replied.
Click to expand...
A rotary tool...such as a Dremel could possibly be used to cut a slot in the screw head to allow a slotted screwdriver to be used. I've had mixed results...often the head of the screw breaks rather than loosening.
Do you have access to a decent cordless impact driver and bits? That MIGHT help break the acrews free...if you can find a screw bit that fits right. (Take the case to Home Depot or Lowes, or ??? and "test fit" some bits.
 
aigomorla

aigomorla

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NewSilkTurtle said:
If there's another tool that I don't know about and you do, please share...
Click to expand...


i have yet to see any PC screw that isn't already stripped or isn't for your nVME not work for this driver.
I noticed sometimes from China and Taiwan use JIS and not Philips standard.
If you stripped your screws then you will need to use an extractor.

BoomerD said:
Those screws look like standard "rightie-tightie, lefty loosy" phillips head (or maybe JIS) screws...
Click to expand...

I was thinking the exact same thing.. its probably a JIS standard.
P2 drivers tend to not work very well on JIS.
I use a Vessel Ball with JIS and PH2 incase i run into situations where PH2 doesn't quite fit right.


Incase people dont know JIS is a bit different from PH2...
Here is a picture i found...
JIS.JPG
 
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NewSilkTurtle

NewSilkTurtle

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BoomerD said:
A rotary tool...such as a Dremel could possibly be used to cut a slot in the screw head to allow a slotted screwdriver to be used. I've had mixed results...often the head of the screw breaks rather than loosening.
Do you have access to a decent cordless impact driver and bits? That MIGHT help break the acrews free...if you can find a screw bit that fits right. (Take the case to Home Depot or Lowes, or ??? and "test fit" some bits.
Click to expand...
I don't know what a slotted screwdriver is.

I've seen every little bit that's being sold. Some of them will "fit" into the screw head, but they do not grip they way they would have to if the screw is to be loosened.
 
aigomorla

aigomorla

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NewSilkTurtle said:
I've seen every little bit that's being sold. Some of them will "fit" into the screw head, but they do not grip they way they would have to if the screw is to be loosened.
Click to expand...

Its probably because your using a PH2 driver and and the screw is JIS.
Do not strip the screw otherwise your going to have a whole other bucket of problems that follows.
 
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BoomerD

BoomerD

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NewSilkTurtle said:
I don't know what a slotted screwdriver is.

I've seen every little bit that's being sold. Some of them will "fit" into the screw head, but they do not grip they way they would have to if the screw is to be loosened.
Click to expand...
A slotted screwdriver has a flat blade.
 
Mantrid-Drone

Mantrid-Drone

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Going by the manual, which are diagrams rather than photos, they actually do look like JIS B1012 (without any identifying dot or X) in fact they can't be anything else as the sides of the central area are rounded.

In original Philips and PH/PZ ISO 8764, the latter of which is supposed to have replaced JIS in Japan, both have a diamond shaped central area.

JIS B1012 needs a much flatter tip to the screw driver otherwise it won't engage the cross slots fully and will slip. I've had exactly that trouble myself with a non-PC related screw head problem.
 
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mindless1

mindless1

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I've had luck using a file to knock off the tip on a Philips to shape it "good enough" to work on JIS. It's not what I'd do for regular use but to get a few screws out I'd try that. YMMV.

For that matter you could just file or grind down a flat bladed screwdriver to engage on only half the head's slot area, just have to be that much more careful to keep it aligned when turning. It should be a decent quality bladed screwdriver, not something made of buttermetal that can't stand the torque.

This is why I keep redundant pieces, old screwdrivers/wrenches/etc around, with no reservations about modifying them to suit certain needs, especially old unplated wrenches that I heat with a torch then bend into the shape needed to get into a tight area.

JIS vs Philips.png
 
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mindless1

mindless1

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NewSilkTurtle said:
Is that the exact size I need to get? If so I will buy it and try it. If not, what is the right size? The screws I'm looking to loosen and about the same size as the ones holding my Toshiba laptop case together.
Click to expand...
I can't see your Toshiba Laptop case ;) but that suggests to me, moving down to size #1:



(or possibly size #0 if very small screws)

 
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NewSilkTurtle

NewSilkTurtle

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Is there some way to make this forum send me an email when there is a new reply in a thread I am watching?
 
NewSilkTurtle

NewSilkTurtle

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mindless1 said:
I can't see your Toshiba Laptop case ;) but that suggests to me, moving down to size #1:



(or possibly size #0 if very small screws)
Click to expand...
How can one know which size the screws are? It's not like they're marked .... at least, not where I can see any such possible mark.

I'm just trying to be sure and get the right thing on the first try, without having to buy two or three different items. I'm on a limited budget!
 
mikeymikec

mikeymikec

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If you don't have a screwdriver that has a near-perfect fit to the screw head, that's the first thing to sort out.

I haven't seen how the problematic screw is situated, but a tactic I've used on occasion with computers is to wedge a flat-blade screwdriver beneath the head of the screw (usually if the head can spin then there's normally a gap that can be leveraged). Keep screwdriver wedged, applying pressure so the head moves away from the case, then with your other hand try to unscrew it again.

The only type of problematic screw that I haven't yet succeeded against is the type that's overtightened so much that one risks mangling the head of the screw even with the most correctly sized screwdriver. I've been told that the final resort is to drill the screw head off, but I've never tried it.
 
aigomorla

aigomorla

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NewSilkTurtle said:
Are you saying that I will need yet another, different driver for the nVME? If so, what will that be?
Click to expand...

nVME screws have a very very small head.
You need a precision driver for that.

Here is a example of what i mean:

Otherwise the JIS driver i linked in the post above will take care of pretty much any other PC screw, unless its again a nvme, and laptops.
You if want to take apart your laptop something like this:

will be good for both nvme and your laptop.
 
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