SCOTUS to take up Birth Control Cases

TheSiege

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2004
3,918
14
81
This post on a news site makes a good point and I agree

"I sincerely hope that the Supreme Court sees through what a terrible precedent it would be to go along with Hobby Lobby.

First of all it would essentially say that a business can be a law unto themselves by deciding that the business has certain 'religious beliefs' and thus can ignore any rule it wishes without consequence. This is something that has never been allowed for persons much less something that a business can simply decide.

Next it would completely undermine religious nondiscrimination laws, which generally say that you must have a workplace accommodating to people of all faiths. But this opens up a route for the Business to use its 'Religious Beliefs' to make a workplace unaccepting of anybody who does not share those beliefs. What would be next? No non-kosher food in the lunchroom because the business is 'jewish' no coverage of blood transfusions because the business is 'LDS' no coverage of vaccinations because the business is 'conservative Islam' and so forth. The full list of various common medical procedures prohibited by one religion or another is quite long.

Finally there is the undermining of Griswold v. Connecticut. This is an extremely important ruling that said that because of a fundamental right to privacy in sexual relationships the government could not be making birth control illegal. The presumed right to privacy in sexual relationships has been the foundation of pretty much every sexual rights case since... Einstadt v. Baird, Roe v. Wade, Lawrence v. Texas...but if the court decides that companies can micromanage the birth control practices of their employees over moral concerns then the privacy rights of Griswold get shredded and the avenue of support of all the rest gets undermined."
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
i hope they side with hobby lobby myself. why should the owners pay for birth control if they are against it?
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
i hope they side with hobby lobby myself. why should the owners pay for birth control if they are against it?


Because its not the business of the company what part of my health insurance I want to use or not.

If it does go in HL's favor this opens a hugh door to "I don't cover cancer due to my religion..." etc... and now the company offers health insurance that only covers praying/animal sacrifice/etc...
 

TheSiege

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2004
3,918
14
81
i hope they side with hobby lobby myself. why should the owners pay for birth control if they are against it?

"Next it would completely undermine religious nondiscrimination laws, which generally say that you must have a workplace accommodating to people of all faiths. But this opens up a route for the Business to use its 'Religious Beliefs' to make a workplace unaccepting of anybody who does not share those beliefs. What would be next? No non-kosher food in the lunchroom because the business is 'jewish' no coverage of blood transfusions because the business is 'LDS' no coverage of vaccinations because the business is 'conservative Islam' and so forth. The full list of various common medical procedures prohibited by one religion or another is quite long."
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Because its not the business of the company what part of my health insurance I want to use or not.

If it does go in HL's favor this opens a hugh door to "I don't cover cancer due to my religion..." etc... and now the company offers health insurance that only covers praying/animal sacrifice/etc...

hmm long as they get me one goat a month!
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Because its not the business of the company what part of my health insurance I want to use or not.

If it does go in HL's favor this opens a hugh door to "I don't cover cancer due to my religion..." etc... and now the company offers health insurance that only covers praying/animal sacrifice/etc...

To play devil's advocate: Why not? They're paying for it, and they're paying your salary.

What's wrong with "if you want birth control coverage, don't work at Hobby Lobby."? Birth control is hardly necessary to maintain one's health or well being.
 

TheSiege

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2004
3,918
14
81
To play devil's advocate: Why not? They're paying for it, and they're paying your salary.

What's wrong with "if you want birth control coverage, don't work at Hobby Lobby."? Birth control is hardly necessary to maintain one's health or well being.

Clearly you are not a woman...talk to your mother, sister, wife, daughter. I am sure one of them has needed BC to improve their quality of life, and not just for contraceptive reasons.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
To play devil's advocate: Why not? They're paying for it, and they're paying your salary.

What's wrong with "if you want birth control coverage, don't work at Hobby Lobby."? Birth control is hardly necessary to maintain one's health or well being.


Same reason business's can't put up "No negro" signs. We should excel to treat each person equal, not force our beliefs on others in such way that could have life or death consequences.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Clearly you are not a woman...talk to your mother, sister, wife, daughter. I am sure one of them has needed BC to improve their quality of life, and not just for contraceptive reasons.

Then educate me. Exactly what is birth control, the pill that controls birth, used for except contraceptive reasons? If hormone therapy is required I'm pretty sure there are separate, more specialized prescriptions for that, put those in the health plan.
 

TheSiege

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2004
3,918
14
81
Then educate me. Exactly what is birth control, the pill that controls birth, used for except contraceptive reasons? If hormone therapy is required I'm pretty sure there are separate, more specialized prescriptions for that, put those in the health plan.

Lower cancer risk, Clearer skin, Lighter, less painful periods, PMS relief, Endometriosis relief, Fewer periods, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) relief

Taken from WebMD
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Same reason business's can't put up "No negro" signs. We should excel to treat each person equal, not force our beliefs on others in such way that could have life or death consequences.

False equivalency. Race is something a person cannot control. Birth control is a luxury.

Should I be able to demand my employer pay for my herbal supplements? (Assuming I took any)
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
Then educate me. Exactly what is birth control, the pill that controls birth, used for except contraceptive reasons? If hormone therapy is required I'm pretty sure there are separate, more specialized prescriptions for that, put those in the health plan.


My wife took it for acne issues, many women do. Instead of writing out a lot of reasons here is a good one from WebMD...

http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/features/other-reasons-to-take-the-pill

#1: Lower cancer risk
#2: Clearer skin
#3: Lighter, less painful periods
#4: PMS relief
#5: Endometriosis relief
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
False equivalency. Race is something a person cannot control. Birth control is a luxury.

Should I be able to demand my employer pay for my herbal supplements? (Assuming I took any)

:rolleyes:

For someone that does not even know how birth control works or the reasons for taking it you are looking really stupid now.

Are herbal supplements a medical drug or procedure?
 

TheSiege

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2004
3,918
14
81
Should we not cover lung cancer treatment because people choose to smoke? I find it immoral. Should we not cover heart related issues because people over eat?
 

TheSiege

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2004
3,918
14
81
False equivalency. Race is something a person cannot control. Birth control is a luxury.

Should I be able to demand my employer pay for my herbal supplements? (Assuming I took any)

Date a woman with an irregular period before and after she takes the pill and then you'll realize that you will be the one benefiting most.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Lower cancer risk, Clearer skin, Lighter, less painful periods, PMS relief, Endometriosis relief, Fewer periods, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) relief

Taken from WebMD

So your employer should cover everything that

1. Lowers cancer risk
2. Provides clearer skin
3. Relieves cramping
4. Slows a woman's period

Sweet. My employer should pay for my tea. Covers 1 and 2 and I'm pretty sure (for women) 3. For that matter my employer should pay for the cost of my produce. :rolleyes:

As for Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, then allow for prescription of Birth control if such a condition is diagnosed.
 
Last edited:

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Should we not cover lung cancer treatment because people choose to smoke? I find it immoral. Should we not cover heart related issues because people over eat?

Yes, because we cover life-threatening conditions we must cover any and all discomfort. Makes perfect sense.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,860
31,346
146
To play devil's advocate: Why not? They're paying for it, and they're paying your salary.

What's wrong with "if you want birth control coverage, don't work at Hobby Lobby."? Birth control is hardly necessary to maintain one's health or well being.

It is for many women. It is not only used for contraceptive reasons.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
:rolleyes:

For someone that does not even know how birth control works or the reasons for taking it you are looking really stupid now.

Are herbal supplements a medical drug or procedure?

Actually in some cases they are, but that's irrelevant.

The issue isn't the pill, it's the contraception. Has Hobby Lobby said that they'd deny coverage to prescriptions, prescribed for different purposes, that could be potentially used for contraception?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
So your employer should cover everything that

1. Lowers cancer risk
2. Provides clearer skin
3. Relieves cramping
4. Slows a woman's period

Sweet. My employer should pay for my tea. Covers 1 and 2 an I'm pretty sure (for women) 3. For that matter my employer should pay for the cost of my produce. :rolleyes:

As for Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, then allow for prescription of Birth control if such a condition is diagnosed.

and BEER!
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
So your employer should cover everything that

1. Lowers cancer risk
2. Provides clearer skin
3. Relieves cramping
4. Slows a woman's period

Sweet. My employer should pay for my tea. Covers 1 and 2 an I'm pretty sure (for women) 3. For that matter my employer should pay for the cost of my produce. :rolleyes:

As for Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, then allow for prescription of Birth control if such a condition is diagnosed.


Are any of the things you listed been tested to show a clear medical usage for them and FDA approved?

Again you keep posting but are just digging your stupid hole deeper and deeper.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I agree with the sentiment from the Chief Justice from the prior Obamacare case. He said something along the lines of "It's a stupid law, but it's not our job to strike down laws just because they're stupid." Requiring that health insurance pay for birth control is both a stupid law, and one that Hobby Lobby should be required to follow.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Are any of the things you listed been tested to show a clear medical usage for them and FDA approved?

Again you keep posting but are just digging your stupid hole deeper and deeper.

Lol. So anything the FDA approves for any medical use should be covered, period? You do realize that applies to a lot of over-the-counter meds too, right?

I'm being called stupid by someone who thinks that something FDA approved to provide clearer skin should be covered by one's employer. I'm hurt, I really am. :D