SCOTUS rules: gay marriage approved

[zinfamous]

Everyones entitled to an opinion but having an opinion doesn't mean you have an argument.

that's no longer true now that we have the internet!

:awe:

 

[WelshBloke]

that's no longer true now that we have the internet!

:awe:

That's just like, your opinion, man.

 

[shira]

Since the approval/disapproval rates are expressed as percentages of population, perhaps the increasing numbers of young persons is at least partly contributing to the increasing percentage of approval?

I agree. But the rate of increase in the approval percentage is MUCH greater than the increase in the number of young people.

That's an increase of 10 percentage points in just three years. Even if 100% of the young people polled approve of SSM, the only way they could account for a 10% overall increase in the rate of approval is if the percentage of young people in the overall population increased by 10 percentage points in three years. Simply not possible. Furthermore, the approval rate within each generation has been steadily increasing. Check the approval percentage of Millenials in the second chart of this Pew study.

Here are the numbers from that chart:

9 percentage point increase (64% to 73%) among Millenials since 2012.
8 percentage point increase (51% to 59%) among GenXers since 2012.
4 percentage point increase (41% to 45%) among Baby Boomers since 2012.
6 percentage point increase (33% to 39%) among Silent Generationers since 2012.

(Obviously, the way that Gallup and Pew constructed their polls has led to a difference in the estimated overall rate of increase. 10% for Gallup since 2012 and less than that for Pew.)

 

[Jaskalas]

I agree. But the rate of increase in the approval percentage is MUCH greater than the increase in the number of young people.

Exposure and watershed effect.

Cultural stigma is falling by the wayside and more people who opposed merely out of ignorance, and not ideological zeal, are turning the page. Also as years pass the "cultural" norm changes. People adapt with the times.

 

[zinfamous]

Exposure and watershed effect.

Cultural stigma is falling by the wayside and more people who opposed merely out of ignorance, and not ideological zeal, are turning the page. Also as years pass the "cultural" norm changes. People adapt with the times.

For sure, and people absolutely do change their minds about such things when the only reason they have, ignorance, is replaced due to personal experience.

Friends whom one never knew were gay, finally coming out due to the increasing acceptance, children coming out, even the steady drip of coming to terms with one's ideas while knowing gay people, realizing the value of people is who they are, as friends, and not how they define themselves sexually.

Not everyone is capable of getting over their pettiness, but here we've seen that in 10 short years, most people can.

 

[WelshBloke]

Friends whom one never knew were gay, finally coming out due to the increasing acceptance, children coming out, even the steady drip of coming to terms with one's ideas while knowing gay people, realizing the value of people is who they are, as friends, and not how they define themselves sexually..

Fucking well said that man!

 

[zinfamous]

lol Travis Bickle. If only things ended with that shot... 😀

 

[werepossum]

Gee you think?

lol +1

Actually no, there are atheists against it too. Might be some good fodder for debate....

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-there-any-secular-arguments-against-gay-marriage

Man, that's some muddled "thinking". Not only is he making homosexuals a homogeneous group, but he's also making men and women homogeneous groups, as if we are all interchangeable within our groups. "Sorry, but we know you are gay, so we're going to take your children and assign them to a male-female couple. Lessee, next up we have a Charles Manson and a Squeaky Fromm. That's a woman, right? Right, so now that they've passed the genitalia test our work is done."

I do agree that an ideal family is a mother and a father, all else being equal, but all else is never equal. A loving homosexual couple can be ideal parents, better than most hetero couples. It may be a little more difficult, but damned little in life that's worth doing well is easy.

Probably like me. 20 years ago I was against it & gay adoption. As time went on no gay adoption horror stories occurred, gay people started living more openly I finally accepted I had unjustified fears and changed my mind.

I went through the same transformation. In my small rural county, "queer" was THE worst insult imaginable, and I matured thinking gays were unnatural abominations. Took one gay friend to show me that my philosophy was full of shit. (Was a LOT more difficult to overcome my squeamishness over two guys kissing; that took convincing myself that such a negative reaction over a show of affection was stupid and counterproductive.)

Thankfully most kids today grow up without that kind of prejudice.

 

[werepossum]

For sure, and people absolutely do change their minds about such things when the only reason they have, ignorance, is replaced due to personal experience.

Friends whom one never knew were gay, finally coming out due to the increasing acceptance, children coming out, even the steady drip of coming to terms with one's ideas while knowing gay people, realizing the value of people is who they are, as friends, and not how they define themselves sexually.

Not everyone is capable of getting over their pettiness, but here we've seen that in 10 short years, most people can.

Well said, sir.

 

[sportage]

Gee so many SS marriage threads to choose from...

I just realized something of late.
That those still holding firm onto their anti SS marriage attitudes and beliefs, and I'm talking about the politicians, their reasoning's for justifying their opinions against has started following the very same route as did the lawyers legal challenges against SS marriage in the courts.

The legal challenges before the courts, including the legal arguments before the US Supreme Court, simply did not hold water nor meet any logical merit.
That is why so many circuit courts, pretty much all of them, shot down states SS marriage bans over and over.
As well as a majority of justices on the US supreme court.

The three most outspoken against SS marriage are Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, and Rick Santorum. And if you listen closely to their evolving reasoning and arguments against SS marriage, you can once again detect this identical trend that follows the same path from the lawyers that argued against SS marriage before the various courts and judges.

And remember, those legal challenges and the lawyers failed to convince the justices.

Huckabee rantings have evolved into this illogically accusation that SS marriage, and I quote, "redefines love".
Well that makes sense. Right? Mike?
And Santorum, he pushes this failed argument that marriage itself should only be associated with having babies. As if that were the sole purpose for marriage in the first place. Making babies. Right? Rick?
And Cruz, he simply wants to pick and choose which court decisions to accept, and which to ignore. That sounds like a good old fashion US Constitutional amendment. Right? Ted?

All of the very same arguments were used by the many lawyers supporting the side against SS marriage in front of the various courts.
We have been down this path.
And the justices shot down the validity for the very same arguments before the courts and with their final decisions.

So if this is the best the far right has to offer to defend their opposition against SS marriage, well fellas I hate to be the one to tell you, but... you have already lost those arguments.
And not only lost with public opinion, but also lost before court after court.
I mean seriously guys, is this all you have?
Maybe, just maybe its time to give it up. Seriously. Mike, Ted, Rick.
You have lost, already.
Your arguments have lost, already.
Your arguments have failed, already.
And there is really nothing else left for you to say.
So just give it up. Seriously guys...

 

[lopri]

I finally gotten a chance to read the decision and.. its writing is not an example of clarity and logic. I have a feeling that Kennedy, by virtue of his self-aggrandizing nature, wrote the decision with the future generation and non-lawyers in mind. The decision does read like some sort of liberty manifesto with lots of flowery verbose.

Other than the expected outcome, a few things stand out from the decision:

• The decision acknowledges that a lot of social and political capital have been poured into this debate for decades. (i.e. It now is time to move on)
• The decision is a stunning endorsement of "Living Constitution." (v. "Originalism")
• In the same vain, the decision obliterates "Glucksberg Test," which purports to identify rights deeply rooted in America at the most concrete and specific level. (e.g. no "new" right to same-sex marriage, but existing right to marriage now inclusive of same-sex couples)

 

[Bird222]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ldout-kentucky-clerk-issue-marriage-licences/

What is going to happen to this woman?

 

[JD50]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ldout-kentucky-clerk-issue-marriage-licences/

What is going to happen to this woman?

Jail time hopefully.

 

[piasabird]

Marriage means nothing any more.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Marriage means nothing any more.

awww, teh gayz ruined marriage. It's all teh gayz faultz! Not rampant infidelity, nope, it was teh gayz.

 

[ivwshane]

Marriage means nothing any more.

Hmmm...that's weird, it means the exact same thing to me now as it did 20 years ago.

 

[brycejones]

Marriage means nothing any more.

1/10 lame troll attempt.

 

[brycejones]

awww, teh gayz ruined marriage. It's all teh gayz faultz! Not rampant infidelity, nope, it was teh gayz.

Probably the realization that he was talking to fake women on Ashley Madison finally did him in.

 

[werepossum]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ldout-kentucky-clerk-issue-marriage-licences/

What is going to happen to this woman?

She should be fired immediately. No official should have the right to pick and choose which laws to enforce or which citizens to treat equally. She is not carrying out the duties of her office, and just as with a Muslim taxi driver who refuses to pick up Jews or blind people she should be out and someone willing and able to do the job brought in. This is not something that needs to run through a bazillion appeals, it needs to happen now.

 

[K1052]

She should be fired immediately. No official should have the right to pick and choose which laws to enforce or which citizens to treat equally. She is not carrying out the duties of her office, and just as with a Muslim taxi driver who refuses to pick up Jews or blind people she should be out and someone willing and able to do the job brought in. This is not something that needs to run through a bazillion appeals, it needs to happen now.

The legislature would have to remove her.

I say contempt of court and sit in jail until she agrees to comply or the state relives her of her duties. Whichever comes first.

 

[brycejones]

She should be fired immediately. No official should have the right to pick and choose which laws to enforce or which citizens to treat equally. She is not carrying out the duties of her office, and just as with a Muslim taxi driver who refuses to pick up Jews or blind people she should be out and someone willing and able to do the job brought in. This is not something that needs to run through a bazillion appeals, it needs to happen now.

The only way she can be removed from office (it is an elected office) is to be voted out in the next election or impeached by the state legislature. The latter option seems unlikely as the state legislature is overwhelmingly dominated by conservatives.

She can quit or be fined into bankruptcy. Maybe conservative religious groups can raise money to keep paying her fines which I hope the judge makes escalate rapidly for continued non-compliance.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If this is the same woman I was reading about last night. She isn't issuing any marriage license's. I'd bet the next court action will be a daily & escalating fine on the county for not complying. She won't see any punishment (legal punishment).
Keep in mind marriage licenses are being issued to residents of this county by other counties and if I remember correctly a judge in a close by location can issue them.
Its not like people in that county can't get married gay or straight. They do have to go somewhere else besides the clerks office.
Interesting quote here:

"Religious liberty certainly does not allow public officials to deny government services to the public based on their personal beliefs," Sharp wrote in a statement. "All that Davis is required to do in her official capacity as clerk is issue a form. In no way is she being forced to endorse anyone's marriage or beliefs."

**speculation ** I believe I previously read that she earns 72k per year for her position so its really about how long will the county tolerate paying someone to not work.

 

[Bowfinger]

If she had any integrity she would resign. She's effectively admitted she is unwilling to perform the duties of the office she holds. She is therefore unqualified for it and needs to step down.

 

[shira]

Marriage means nothing any more.

I'm married to a wonderful woman and consider myself the luckiest man on the planet. The notion that allowing same-sex couples to marry has any effect at all on the meaning of my or anyone else's marriage is just insane.

The fact that anyone in America thinks that one's private religious beliefs exempt them from performing required tasks central to their government jobs demonstrates just how low government hiring standards have fallen.

The wacked-out right and religious nut-cases like this Rowan County Clerk had better accept reality or get out of the way. Because if they don't they're going to find themselves squashed by the semi-truck of reality roaring down the road.

10 years from now, people will be ashamed to admit that they were once so small-minded and ignorant that they opposed same-sex marriage.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

**speculation ** I believe I previously read that she earns 72k per year for her position so its really about how long will the county tolerate paying someone to not work.

If the great state of Kentucky is looking to replace her, I too have failed to issue a single marriage license in Kentucky in the wake of SCOTUS' gay marriage ruling, and I'm willing to continue that trend for a mere $70,999.99 a year, a savings of over one thousand dollars. You can't beat that!