SCOTUS Nomination Thread

[lopri]

Is it Machiavellian to say the current legal limbo the SCOTUS is put under might actually be a good thing in that it reduces the power of the court, albeit temporarily? The court has been exerting enormous power over our lives thanks to the gridlock in the Congress as well as its own political temptation.

Both sides have been guilty of creating the environment where the court can aggrandize itself and arrogate lawmaking. Too many people want to skip the laborious process called democracy and elevate the values they hold dear into untouchable status of Constitutional rights.

We should talk about how we can lower the stake in judicial decision making so that we do not repeat this wasteful endeavor.

 

[Blackjack200]

Just to be clear, when you say "aggrandize itself and arrogate lawmaking" do you mean 'protect people's civil rights'?

 

[ivwshane]

Is it Machiavellian to say the current legal limbo the SCOTUS is put under might actually be a good thing in that it reduces the power of the court, albeit temporarily? The court has been exerting enormous power over our lives thanks to the gridlock in the Congress as well as its own political temptation.

Both sides have been guilty of creating the environment where the court can aggrandize itself and arrogate lawmaking. Too many people want to skip the laborious process called democracy and elevate the values they hold dear into untouchable status of Constitutional rights.

We should talk about how we can lower the stake in judicial decision making so that we do not repeat this wasteful endeavor.

If the supreme court can't issue a ruling with a clear winner then the preceding courts decision is what the ruling defaults to. If you think the supreme court is too political you should see some of the rulings from the lower courts.

 

[lopri]

Just to be clear, when you say "aggrandize itself and arrogate lawmaking" do you mean 'protect people's civil rights'?

The devil is in the details. "Protecting people's civil rights" can certainly be a problematic impetus when the court decides that employers' religious convictions are valid justifications to ignore the law mandating medical benefits for employees. Or when the court decides, first time in 250 years of the nation's history, right to bear arm is an individual right that can be micromanaged by the courts. Or when the court decides, halting on-going democratic process across the country, that the same-sex marriage is a right guaranteed by the constitution.

I do not speak of the merits of each case. But it is indisputable, I think, that court frequently injects itself into political realm when it does not need to.

 

[werepossum]

Is it Machiavellian to say the current legal limbo the SCOTUS is put under might actually be a good thing in that it reduces the power of the court, albeit temporarily? The court has been exerting enormous power over our lives thanks to the gridlock in the Congress as well as its own political temptation.

Both sides have been guilty of creating the environment where the court can aggrandize itself and arrogate lawmaking. Too many people want to skip the laborious process called democracy and elevate the values they hold dear into untouchable status of Constitutional rights.

We should talk about how we can lower the stake in judicial decision making so that we do not repeat this wasteful endeavor.

Well said.

If the supreme court can't issue a ruling with a clear winner then the preceding courts decision is what the ruling defaults to. If you think the supreme court is too political you should see some of the rulings from the lower courts.

Also a good point. The 6th Circuit has recently surpassed the 9th Circus' virtual lock on being wrong, and it seems a couple others are determined to get in the running as well. Hopefully though most overturned verdicts are not 5-4, else Lopri's point is even more persuasive.

The devil is in the details. "Protecting people's civil rights" can certainly be a problematic impetus when the court decides that employers' religious convictions are valid justifications to ignore the law mandating medical benefits for employees. Or when the court decides, first time in 250 years of the nation's history, right to bear arm is an individual right that can be micromanaged by the courts. Or when the court decides, halting on-going democratic process across the country, that the same-sex marriage is a right guaranteed by the constitution.

I do not speak of the merits of each case. But it is indisputable, I think, that court frequently injects itself into political realm when it does not need to.

Also well said, but one could make the point that often this is the Court simply giving up dodging the legal question, as well they should. When SCOTUS decides to tackle a point, be it an end to the federal government's ability to discriminate against blacks or gays or simply declaring that the Second Amendment's right to bear arms is in fact an individual right rather than some nebulous "collective right" that none of us actually has because we somehow have it collectively, it's often a point that the Court has been dodging due to its politically charged nature. The law needs to be the law, not what current political conflicts needs it to be. I would argue that it took us almost a hundred years to realize our excruciatingly simply declaration that "all men are created equal" (and almost another hundred years to really implement it) because the Court was dodging a very simple legal question because of the politics.

 

[zinfamous]

So, the Grand Turtle still wants to hold out, giving this nomination either to Trump or Hillary....two liberals roundly loathed by the GOP.


what the hell is he thinking? Is it really that bad that a black secret muslim should do his job?

 

[Jhhnn]

Also a good point. The 6th Circuit has recently surpassed the 9th Circus' virtual lock on being wrong, and it seems a couple others are determined to get in the running as well. Hopefully though most overturned verdicts are not 5-4, else Lopri's point is even more persuasive.

"Wrong" how, exactly?

 

[theeedude]

Republicans really going to risk Senate majority so that Trump can nominate a SCOTUS justice? I suspect once the primary season is over and the GOP Senators aren't afraid of getting primaried, they'll compromise on a moderate pick like Srinivasan. Which is why Obama is not in a hurry to nominate right now.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Republicans really going to risk Senate majority so that Trump can nominate a SCOTUS justice? I suspect once the primary season is over and the GOP Senators aren't afraid of getting primaried, they'll compromise on a moderate pick like Srinivasan. Which is why Obama is not in a hurry to nominate right now.

Very smart theory

 

[zinfamous]

Very smart theory

yeah, Obama's chilling in the White House with a large shit-eating grin these days, just biding his time.

I would not be surprised if that little opposition summit they had in the WH yesterday went over these exact contingencies.

Turtle came out after with the same stance: We will not vote on a nomination during this presidency. This leads me to think that they let Obama know, in no uncertain terms, that Trump will not be their nominee, whatever happens. Don't know how they can pull that off right now, though, without destroying the party. ....face it, the GOp is wrecked anyway. They pigeonhole their golden boy Rubio into the spot, Trump will absolutely run 3rd party, assuring democrat victory.

....but what would be hilarious is if Bernie jumps in 3rd party as well. So 2 independents and 2 party-supported puppets. That would be fascinating.

 

[Sonikku]

Maybe instead of all the games and posturing they could pretend like they're doing their jobs for a few minutes and allow a hearing. Then, after they ask their hard questions if they don't like the answers they can vote the nom down.

Am I asking too much?

 

[CountZero]

yeah, Obama's chilling in the White House with a large shit-eating grin these days, just biding his time.

I would not be surprised if that little opposition summit they had in the WH yesterday went over these exact contingencies.

Turtle came out after with the same stance: We will not vote on a nomination during this presidency. This leads me to think that they let Obama know, in no uncertain terms, that Trump will not be their nominee, whatever happens. Don't know how they can pull that off right now, though, without destroying the party. ....face it, the GOp is wrecked anyway. They pigeonhole their golden boy Rubio into the spot, Trump will absolutely run 3rd party, assuring democrat victory.

....but what would be hilarious is if Bernie jumps in 3rd party as well. So 2 independents and 2 party-supported puppets. That would be fascinating.

I believe at this point that Trump will be running for president with or without the Republican party. He's won enough states that in his mind losing the primaries at this point isn't "fair". Either he is the republican candidate or he is running independent but I don't expect him to back down now.

Honestly with this recent move to vow to not vote for Trump no matter what he wouldn't be wrong to say they aren't treating him fairly. They set the rules, he's following them and they are pulling support.

I agree, an election with Rubio v Clinton v Trump v Sanders would be interesting and nearly impossible to call. Almost worth whatever fallout occurs just to have it happen.

 

[Brainonska511]

....but what would be hilarious is if Bernie jumps in 3rd party as well. So 2 independents and 2 party-supported puppets. That would be fascinating.

And then when no one reaches 270 electoral votes, it will fall on the House (with 1 vote per state) to choose the next president (where the pool of choices is the top 3 candidates)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I believe at this point that Trump will be running for president with or without the Republican party. He's won enough states that in his mind losing the primaries at this point isn't "fair". Either he is the republican candidate or he is running independent but I don't expect him to back down now.

Honestly with this recent move to vow to not vote for Trump no matter what he wouldn't be wrong to say they aren't treating him fairly. They set the rules, he's following them and they are pulling support.

I agree, an election with Rubio v Clinton v Trump v Sanders would be interesting and nearly impossible to call. Almost worth whatever fallout occurs just to have it happen.

Its just a fantasy but imagine if Trump said I'm here to build a wall, get illegals out and/or bring back tariffs or renegotiate trade treaties then I'll hand it over to my VP.....Bernie Sanders.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

And then when no one reaches 270 electoral votes, it will fall on the House (with 1 vote per state) to choose the next president (where the pool of choices is the top 3 candidates)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

And after this we would finally see the electoral college go away and have it become direct vote. Maybe we'd finally see the end of extreme candidates since only a couple of swing states really decide who is President.

 

[JEDI]

And then when no one reaches 270 electoral votes, it will fall on the House (with 1 vote per state) to choose the next president (where the pool of choices is the top 3 candidates)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

1 vote per state?
so each house member votes, and the majority for that state goes to the candidate?

what if there's a tie?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

1 vote per state?
so each house member votes, and the majority for that state goes to the candidate?

what if there's a tie?

Then the horse trading begins & they vote again. I thought they could select anyone to be President not only the top three

 

[TeeJay1952]

I think it will be Trump's sister.....and then he can cram a lot of stuff.

 

[zinfamous]

I believe at this point that Trump will be running for president with or without the Republican party. He's won enough states that in his mind losing the primaries at this point isn't "fair". Either he is the republican candidate or he is running independent but I don't expect him to back down now.

Honestly with this recent move to vow to not vote for Trump no matter what he wouldn't be wrong to say they aren't treating him fairly. They set the rules, he's following them and they are pulling support.

I agree, an election with Rubio v Clinton v Trump v Sanders would be interesting and nearly impossible to call. Almost worth whatever fallout occurs just to have it happen.

I totally agree with this. Trump is an impacted rectum with hardened dingleberries acting as "policy ideas," but the republican party is completely shitting on him despite their willingness to let him play fair. He really needs to run 3rd party if that somehow happens.

And it is glorious. No matter what happens at this point, the GOP is utterly fucked in years to come (in terms of an actual establishment platform).

 

[TeeJay1952]

From Louie C K
P.S. Please stop it with voting for Trump. It was funny for a little while. But the guy is Hitler. And by that I mean that we are being Germany in the 30s. Do you think they saw the shit coming? Hitler was just some hilarious and refreshing dude with a weird comb over who would say anything at all.

And I’m not advocating for Hillary or Bernie. I like them both but frankly I wish the next president was a conservative only because we had Obama for eight years and we need balance. And not because I particularly enjoy the conservative agenda. I just think the government should reflect the people. And we are about 40 percent conservative and 40 percent liberal. When I was growing up and when I was a younger man, liberals and conservatives were friends with differences. They weren’t enemies. And it always made sense that everyone gets a president they like for a while and then hates the president for a while. But it only works if the conservatives put up a good candidate. A good smart conservative to face the liberal candidate so they can have a good argument and the country can decide which way to go this time.

Trump is not that. He’s an insane bigot. He is dangerous.

He already said he would expand libel laws to sue anyone who “writes a negative hit piece” about him. He says “I would open up the libel laws so we can sue them and win lots of money. Not like now. These guys are totally protected.” He said that. He has promised to decimate the first amendment. (If you think he’s going to keep the second amendment intact you’re delusional.) And he said that Paul Ryan, speaker of the house will “pay” for criticizing him. So I’m saying this now because if he gets in there we won’t be able to criticize him anymore.

Please pick someone else. Like John Kasich. I mean that guy seems okay. I don’t like any of them myself but if you’re that kind of voter please go for a guy like that. It feels like between him and either democrat we’d have a decent choice. It feels like a healthier choice. We shouldn’t have to vote for someone because they’re not a shocking wise and beautiful woman billionaire liar.

We should choose based on what direction the country should go.

I get that all these people sound like bullshit soft criminal opportunists. The whole game feels rigged and it’s not going anywhere but down anymore. I feel that way sometimes.

And that voting for Trump is a way of saying “fuck it. Fuck them all”. I really get it. It’s a version of national Suicide. Or it’s like a big hit off of a crack pipe. Somehow we can’t help it. Or we know that if we vote for Trump our phones will be a reliable source of dopamine for the next four years. I mean I can’t wait to read about Trump every day. It’s a rush. But you have to know this is not healthy.

If you are a true conservative. Don’t vote for Trump. He is not one of you. He is one of him. Everything you have heard him say that you liked, if you look hard enough you will see that he one day said the exact opposite. He is playing you.

In fact, if you do vote for Trump, at least look at him very carefully first. You owe that to the rest of us. Know and understand who he is. Spend one hour on google and just read it all. I don’t mean listen to me or listen to liberals who put him down. Listen to your own people. Listen to John Mccain. Go look at what he just said about Trump. “At a time when our world has never been more complex or more in danger… I want Republican voters to pay close attention to what our party’s most respected and knowledgeable leaders and national security experts are saying about Mr. Trump, and to think long and hard about who they want to be our next Commander-in-Chief and leader of the free world.”

When Trump was told what he said, Trump said “Oh, he did? Well, that’s not nice,” he told CBS News’ chief White House correspondent Major Garrett. “He has to be very careful.”
When pressed on why, Trump tacked on: “He’ll find out.”

(I cut and pasted that from CBS news)

Do you really want a guy to be president who threatens John McCain? Because John McCain cautiously and intelligently asked for people to be thoughtful before voting for him? He didn’t even insult Trump. He just asked you to take a good look. And Trump told him to look out.

Remember that Trump entered this race by saying that McCain is not a war hero. A guy who was shot down, body broken and kept in a POW camp for years. Trump said “I prefer the guys who don’t get caught.” Why did he say that? Not because he meant it or because it was important to say. He said it because he’s a bully and every bully knows that when you enter a new school yard, you go to the toughest most respected guy on the yard and you punch him in the nose. If you are still standing after, you’re the new boss. If Trump is president, he’s not going to change. He’s not going to do anything for you. He’s going to do everything for himself and leave you in the dust.

So please listen to fellow conservatives. But more importantly, listen to Trump. Listen to all of it. Everything he says. If you liked when he said that “torture works” then go look at where he took it back the next day. He’s a fucking liar.

A vote for Trump is so clearly a gut-vote, and again I get it. But add a little brain to it and look the guy up. Because if you vote for him because of how you feel right now, the minute he’s president, you’re going to regret it. You’re going to regret it even more when he gives the job to his son. Because American democracy is broken enough that a guy like that could really fuck things up. That’s how Hitler got there. He was voted into power by a fatigued nation and when he got inside, he did all his Hitler things and no one could stop him.

Again, I’m not saying vote democrat or vote for anyone else. If Hilary ends up president it should be because she faced the best person you have and you and I both chose her or him or whoever. Trump is not your best. He’s the worst of all of us. He’s a symptom to a problem that is very real. But don’t vote for your own cancer. You’re better than that.

That’s just my view. At least right now. I know I’m not qualified or particularly educated and I’m not right instead of you. I’m an idiot and I’m sure a bunch of you are very annoyed by this. Fucking celebrity with an opinion. I swear this isn’t really a political opinion. You don’t want to know my political opinions. (And I know that I’m only bringing myself trouble with this shit.) Trump has nothing to do with politics or ideology. He has to do with himself. And really I don’t mean to insult anyone. Except Trump. I mean to insult him very much. And really I’m not saying he’s evil or a monster. In fact I don’t think Hitler was. The problem with saying that guys like that are monsters is that we don’t see them coming when they turn out to be human, which they all are. Everyone is. Trump is a messed up guy with a hole in his heart that he tries to fill with money and attention. He can never ever have enough of either and he’ll never stop trying. He’s sick. Which makes him really really interesting. And he pulls you towards him which somehow feels good or fascinatingly bad. He’s not a monster. He’s a sad man. But all this makes him horribly dangerous if he becomes president. Give him another TV show. Let him pay to put his name on buildings. But please stop voting for him. And please watch Horace and Pete. - Louis C.K.

 

[TheVrolok]

As if I needed another reason to like Louis CK

 

[LegendKiller]

As if I needed another reason to like Louis CK

What's his idea? Vote for billary? Rubio? Keep the UniParty that fucks Americans all day, alive?

 

[TheVrolok]

What's his idea? Vote for billary? Rubio? Keep the UniParty that fucks Americans all day, alive?

I think he speaks for himself. I haven't kept up with your more recent angry personality, but I suppose your response means your a Trump man? The guy talking about the size of his dick during a presidential debate? The guy who has absolutely no substantive plans whatsoever? The guy that continued to get called out on his bullshit during the debate (not that it matters to Trump supporters)? It's rather scary that otherwise intelligent people (like yourself) could possibly think Trump is a good idea.

 

[zinfamous]

"The silent majority"

--a beast no less mythical than a Unicorn.

 

[LegendKiller]

I think he speaks for himself. I haven't kept up with your more recent angry personality, but I suppose your response means your a Trump man? The guy talking about the size of his dick during a presidential debate? The guy who has absolutely no substantive plans whatsoever? The guy that continued to get called out on his bullshit during the debate (not that it matters to Trump supporters)? It's rather scary that otherwise intelligent people (like yourself) could possibly think Trump is a good idea.

I am an anti-establishment man. I am fucking tired of the UniParty. I am fucking tired of "free trade" pacts that end up fucking us over. I am also tired of illegals. And I am tired of politicians that sell us out repeatedly.

I was at a work conference (finance) last week. I would say at least 2/3-3/4 of the people I talked to were Trump people. These are highly educated, highly successful, very motivated, people. If you ask them sober in a mixed crowd, they won't admit it. When you figure out the truth, you know.

People are getting very tired of the UniParty.

I think part of the problem is that Americans have been pacified by this BS for the last 70 years. Wedge issues and "free trade" bullshit and the effects are telling.

More recent angry personality? I always have had an angry personality. lol.