SCOTUS Nomination Thread

Page 18 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
She didn't say that Republicans did it to keep black people down, she said that 'many' speak in coded racist terms, which seems to be entirely accurate.

And by many, you mean one.

Hell, I provided you with a quote that admitted it was a deliberate strategy on their part. What more do you want?

And by quote, you mean out-of-context and 30 years ago.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/06/what-did-lee-atwater-really-say.php

Huh? Almost no Democrats say that, and certainly none in power. This is not true for Republicans at all.

So again, seems like Hillary was pretty much right.

Anyone who honestly believes there's some code-speaking Republican fifth column bent on white supremacy is psychotic.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,958
55,346
136
And by many, you mean one.

He was a strategist that worked with many Republican candidates. So by many I mean many.


Nope, entirely within context. Did you read your own link? He was disputing whether the Reagan campaign used the tactic, not whether the tactic existed. It still pretty obviously exists today. (oh, and that's funny that Atwater claimed Reagan didn't use coded racial appeals. What a joke)

Anyone who honestly believes there's some code-speaking Republican fifth column bent on white supremacy is psychotic.

I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that and that description certainly has nothing to do with what Hillary said. Why the ridiculous straw man?
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
What Rutledge proves is that the high minded ideals of Hamilton's Federalist 76 and 78, used by people to highlight intent of a weakened Senate and a strengthened executive that got its wishes done, didn't hold up in reality. Rutledge's integrity wasn't questioned before he came out against the Jay Treaty, which exposes motivation.
Simply put there were plenty at the time who viewed publicly coming out so such strong language against the treaty at that time (as opposed to say privately trying to persuade Washington to withdraw the treaty from Senate consideration) as not at all appropriate behavior and judgement. While it remains a debatable position to a degree up to today, the basic point would be once a Supreme Court Justice (you would expect a recess appointee up for permanent confirmation to be on his best behavior so evidence of problems then is a bad sign) many expect the Supreme Court to basically stay out of simple political controversies unless its a matter that comes up before the court at which point they are supposed to of course just rule on what the law and Constitution says rather than simply what they view as the ideal ruling politically speaking. (Basically the concern there is a Judge who not only has a lifetime appointment but uses his visibility to aggressively promote a political platform in public. It also was an arguably problematic move on Rutledge's part if a legal dispute related to the treaty reached the Supreme Court in the future.) Even to the extent you can argue it purely was politics in the case in question, its something completely different that blanket opposition to any nominee proposed rather than legitimate consideration of each nominee individually.

Edit: The fact Rutledge attempted to commit suicide later that month after his nomination was rejected does provide possible support for Federalist claims of erratic behavior by him at that point.

The base fact pattern is that the Senate doesn't have to approve the nomination and is not even forced to consider it. There isn't a single shred of intent inside of the Convention minutes, or discussions among a broader audience, from what I have read, that shows the Framers intended them to be a Presidential rubber stamp.
This is an obviously absurd straw man argument especially for the last part. Of course no one has claimed the Senate has to approve any nominee without considering their qualifications as a rubber stamp. Many legal scholars however do in fact fully agree that the very clear intention of the writers of the Constitution was that the Senate should debate and at some level consider any nominee and accept any reasonable candidate without exceptional issues rather than something along the lines of only someone who agrees with them politically. Now its true the founders failed to specify any punishment provisions or the like for a Senate failing to do its duty in a reasonable manner, but presumably the founders would want a Senate controlled by a political party who pulls a stunt of blanket refusal of any nomination to ultimately get punished by the voters. (Which would in fact serve as a way to deter similar behavior by either party in the future out of concern of future electoral consequences of doing so.)
 
Last edited:

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
He was a strategist that worked with many Republican candidates. So by many I mean many.

It's one quote spoken by one man.

Nope, entirely within context. Did you read your own link? He was disputing whether the Reagan campaign used the tactic, not whether the tactic existed. It still pretty obviously exists today. (oh, and that's funny that Atwater claimed Reagan didn't use coded racial appeals. What a joke)

Yes I read my own link. He said that the tactic was a relic of the Southern Strategy and not used by Reagan.

When I google around looking for evidence of the Ronald Reagan dog whistle, I see citations of the same Atwater quote you did. So an interview with Atwater saying that Reagan didn't use coded racism is used as evidence that Reagan used coded racism?

I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that and that description certainly has nothing to do with what Hillary said. Why the ridiculous straw man?

Nothing to do with what Hillary said? You think her objective wasn't to paint Republicans as generally racist?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,958
55,346
136
It's one quote spoken by one man.

A man who worked very closely with a number of elected Republicans. How many more examples would you like? I can provide them!

Yes I read my own link. He said that the tactic was a relic of the Southern Strategy and not used by Reagan.

Right, so he said Republicans definitely used that sort of tactic. He also said they were going to stop using it in the future, but that didn't turn out to be true.

When I google around looking for evidence of the Ronald Reagan dog whistle, I see citations of the same Atwater quote you did. So an interview with Atwater saying that Reagan didn't use coded racism is used as evidence that Reagan used coded racism?

No, I'm saying Atwater was totally wrong about Reagan not using coded racism. Google more about Reagan's 'welfare queen' bit. It's bad.

Nothing to do with what Hillary said? You think her objective wasn't to paint Republicans as generally racist?

She said Republicans say racist things in order to get votes, which seems pretty obviously true to me. That is about 5 light years from 'there's some code-speaking Republican fifth column bent on white supremacy.'
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Damn right he regrets it...a significant part of his legacy now hangs in the balance due in large part to his past filibuster shenanigans in 2006 and then again when he had Reid invoke the 'nuclear option' in order to stack the DC Circuit court in 2013.

What goes around, comes around....Mr. Peabody is now setting the Wayback Machine to November 21, 2013.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...65cfe8-52b6-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html

Which is more important fairness or functioning government?

To me fairness is a measure that has no meaning in politics. So much tit-for-tat, back and forth does nothing for actual functioning government.

If the dems did something bad they would just claim it was response to something the reps did which was just response to something the dems did forever and ever more. I don't see how fairness is a measure that should apply.

So, fairness or functioning?

Hostage takers don't care about the hostage, which describes Repub efforts over the last 7 years in a simple way.

In power, they're incompetent, other than in catering to the financial elite. Out of power, they'll be damned if they'll let anybody do better.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Hostage takers don't care about the hostage, which describes Repub efforts over the last 7 years in a simple way.

In power, they're incompetent, other than in catering to the financial elite. Out of power, they'll be damned if they'll let anybody do better.



Who are they holding hostage now? You libs opened this door and now don't like where it ended up.

Just like Obama NOW doesn't like that he voted to filibuster a judge. Had no problems doing it back when Bush was president.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
Who are they holding hostage now? You libs opened this door and now don't like where it ended up.

Just like Obama NOW doesn't like that he voted to filibuster a judge. Had no problems doing it back when Bush was president.


Yup. You conservatives check mated us with your brilliance.
 

CountZero

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2001
1,796
36
86
Who are they holding hostage now? You libs opened this door and now don't like where it ended up.

Just like Obama NOW doesn't like that he voted to filibuster a judge. Had no problems doing it back when Bush was president.

Yep, tit-for-tat forever more. Functioning government at the mercy of a stream of reactions for the "unfair" things the other team did. Now that we have some power we'll do some terrible things that will be ammo for when the pendulum swings yet again. All we really get out of it is a government of total and complete crap no matter what team a person plays for.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,403
136
Can we all agree there is far, far, far too much speculation in this thread. Lets see who Obama proposes and then lets see what the Senate does.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
We are talking about up or down votes for the people he nominates. If the gop wants to block voting there will be a problem.


When Sanders wins the presidency will the gop block voting on this for 4 more years?

The DNC, who has far more control over the Primary process than the GOP, will never let Sanders win. You'll just see NH over and over.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
lol +1

It's outrageous that by GOP math, four year terms are actually three years. It is however noble and good that by proggie math, four year terms are actually two and a half years.

One of the replies to that video says it all:

In July 2004, Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch said there was no such thing. And Republican Sen. John Cornyn threatened in 2008 that if Democrats invoked the Thurmond Rule, Republicans would go nuclear: “We could require 60 votes on every single motion, bill, and procedural move before the Senate,” he said at the time.

The Thurmond Rule has never been extended back this far. In 2008, Democrats didn’t invoke it until the late summer; Sen. Dianne Feinstein said it kicks in after the first party convention. It’s February now, and even the longest Supreme Court confirmation in history—that of Justice Brandeis, in 1916—took 125 days. (Brandeis was called a “radical” and bitterly opposed by conservatives, with anti-Semitism even more overt than Fortas later faced.) So this would be an unprecedented expansion of the “Rule.”

Second, the “Rule” has never been applied to Supreme Court vacancies. On the contrary, when President Reagan nominated Anthony Kennedy to the court, he was confirmed 97-0 on Feb. 3, 1988, with Sen. McConnell voting in favor.

In short, until this one, an opposing-party Senate has never observed the Thurmond Rule. Not in 1980, not in 1988, not in 1992, not in 2000. There are typically slowdowns in confirmations, but never a standstill. And the rule has never been invoked before the summer, let alone before the cherry blossoms bloom. Perhaps unsurprisingly, we’re in new territory this year, and at new heights of hypocrisy.
I agree that whomever Obama nominates should receive a full and timely hearing and an up or down vote within six months. If a nominee cannot be fully vetted within six months, then that nominee should be voted down, always. It is however highly amusing to see you guys wiggle. Arguing that Schumer was not discussing SCOTUS nominations when he specifically references conservative justices is funny by itself, but when you add in quoting some moron arguing that when Schumer said "we should not confirm any Bush nominee to the Supreme Court except in extraordinary circumstances" he actually meant special circumstances like if one of the justices dies" makes it a comedy classic. Yep, old Chucky was merely arguing that they should not approve any Bush nominees unless there is an opening. It is as clear as the meaning of the word "is" is unknowable. (Apologies for that last sentence which no Democrat could ever hope to follow.)

Nonetheless, I'd certainly hope the Republicans adopt the Schumer standard and require any Obama nominees to "prove by actions not words that they are in the mainstream rather than we have to prove that they are not."

That sums up the problem that I have with the GOP as it is. They are only small government when it comes to issues that they don't like. But they are as big government as can be with issues that they like.
Yep. Two faces of the same coin. The federal government did not grow this big and powerful over the heroic GOP opposition; they are just arguing over whom to smite.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Yep, tit-for-tat forever more. Functioning government at the mercy of a stream of reactions for the "unfair" things the other team did. Now that we have some power we'll do some terrible things that will be ammo for when the pendulum swings yet again. All we really get out of it is a government of total and complete crap no matter what team a person plays for.

That's not accurate. Hell, this isn't even tit for tat but an escalation beyond even a right wing litmus test.

As I pointed out, Repubs have won the luck of the draw repeatedly beginning with Nixon, with Repub presidents appointing 12 out of 16 of modern justices. If not for that, the Court would likely be much less conservative. Democrats have bitten the bullet a helluva lot more often than Repubs to staff the Court at full strength.

Alito was known to be much more radical than any of Obama's picks so far but Dems did their duty when push came to shove. He was barely acceptable in ways that Bork never was.

Duty? Oh, wait... What duty? The duty to serve the interests of good government rather than Party ideology? Repubs are apparently incapable of it at this time.

Because Obama, apparently.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
The DNC, who has far more control over the Primary process than the GOP, will never let Sanders win. You'll just see NH over and over.

Same smear, different poster. The persistence of that bit of innuendo indicates a certain concerted desperation to drag down the dirty Democrats . It's an attempt to deny legitimacy to Hillary should she win the greater number of pledged delegates & therefore the nomination.

It's bullshit.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
The DNC, who has far more control over the Primary process than the GOP, will never let Sanders win. You'll just see NH over and over.
What happens if the FBI recommends indictment? Somebody come out of the shadows and takes over or does Sander Claus get it?
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Can we all agree there is far, far, far too much speculation in this thread. Lets see who Obama proposes and then lets see what the Senate does.
Why wait when we can get outraged at something that hasn't happened yet or may never happen?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
What happens if the FBI recommends indictment? Somebody come out of the shadows and takes over or does Sander Claus get it?
If that happens it won't matter. The wealthy left won't vote for a guy who is going to raise their taxes by 10-15%. So you have the entire left centrists gone.

Plus the faith in the entire DNC is gone. It will all fall and the gop wins.

Dws know this. Obama knows this. That's why there won't be an indictment.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
The DNC, who has far more control over the Primary process than the GOP, will never let Sanders win. You'll just see NH over and over.


ok hillary nom would be better then obama nom under gop threat? Whose the gamblin man.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
What happens if the FBI recommends indictment? Somebody come out of the shadows and takes over or does Sander Claus get it?

Hope springs eternal, huh? We're almost at the end of the email. It seems highly unlikely that the FBI will investigate much longer so we should have their judgement long before the convention.

It's just the latest opportunity for Repub operatives to foster delusion via innuendo & trumped up scandal. Why would this time be any different?
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Hope springs eternal, huh? We're almost at the end of the email. It seems highly unlikely that the FBI will investigate much longer so we should have their judgement long before the convention.

It's just the latest opportunity for Repub operatives to foster delusion via innuendo & trumped up scandal. Why would this time be any different?
Remember, this is Hillary we're talking about...don't underestimate the power of the vast right wing conspiracy!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Remember, this is Hillary we're talking about...don't underestimate the power of the vast right wing conspiracy!

How else could we have had 7 years of baseless Birther/Benghazi bullshit, anyway?

Maybe it's all just some great cosmic accident & misunderstanding, huh?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mitch-mcconnell-withhold-consent-obama-scotus

Ok so Republicans are refusing to do their constitutional duty to advise and consent. They should at least hold hearings and then vote no.

So Obama should just do a recess appointment since that is his right under the constitution. In case you were wondering George Washington made a Chief Justice recess appt.
Just following the Biden/Obama/Schumer Rule. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Naturally Obama and Biden would know that it is okay, one is a "constitutional professor" (lol) and the other was on the judiciary committee.

You guys were checkmated by your own party's dirty deeds in the last two decades. The "Biden Rule", how fucking glorious.

Eat the crow, bitch, eat it all.
 
Last edited:

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,355
32,982
136
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mitch-mcconnell-withhold-consent-obama-scotus

Ok so Republicans are refusing to do their constitutional duty to advise and consent. They should at least hold hearings and then vote no.

So Obama should just do a recess appointment since that is his right under the constitution. In case you were wondering George Washington made a Chief Justice recess appt.

GOP won't let the Senate go into recess. The backlash from independents is going to be harsh, haha.