Scion brand is no more

[marincounty]

The Scion brand lost the magic. When it launched, fun ecobox type cars were not prevalent, but now all brands offer something and most are better than Toyota. Only selling 56k cars last year and with very little margin doens't make sense.

Most are better than Toyota? Name one. I remember when Scion was the most reliable car made, being a simpler Toyota.

 

[Drako]

Aw. I liked the FRS, though I suppose it will go back to toyota as the 86i, and it's already made by subaru anyway. The rest of the cars were meh at best.

They aren't selling enough of the FRS (and BRZ) to continue with it. It will in all likelihood be discontinued.

 

[Drako]

Most are better than Toyota? Name one.

I can name about 5 off the top of my head.

 

[marincounty]

I can name about 5 off the top of my head.

Reality disagrees with you. I notice you didn't name any.

 

[KentState]

Most are better than Toyota? Name one. I remember when Scion was the most reliable car made, being a simpler Toyota.

Which class would you like me to start with.

Sub-compact: Mazda 2, Ford Fiesta, Hyundai Accent
Compact cars: Mazda 3, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus. VZ Golf
Sedan: Honda Accord, Mazda 6, Ford Fusion
Truck: Ford F150, Chevrolet Silverado, Ram

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Compact-Cars/

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ditors-choice-for-best-compact-and-small-cars

http://www.edmunds.com/sedan/buying-guide/

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2455373

I don't recall the last time I saw one of Toyot's sub-compact or compact cars seen as best in class.

 

[marincounty]

Which class would you like me to start with.

Sub-compact: Mazda 2, Ford Fiesta, Hyundai Accent
Compact cars: Mazda 3, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus. VZ Golf
Sedan: Honda Accord, Mazda 6, Ford Fusion
Truck: Ford F150, Chevrolet Silverado, Ram

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Compact-Cars/

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ditors-choice-for-best-compact-and-small-cars

http://www.edmunds.com/sedan/buying-guide/

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2455373

I don't recall the last time I saw one of Toyot's sub-compact or compact cars seen as best in class.

Sorry, I consider reliability as the number one quality in a car. Toyota is the most reliable.
And I don't consider car and driver or usnews to be unbiased sources for info about cars.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

They aren't selling enough of the FRS (and BRZ) to continue with it. It will in all likelihood be discontinued.

I could see either Toyota or Subaru taking full control of the car. Two companies selling the same car for the same price isn't a great idea.

 

[foghorn67]

The only good one was the xB. And they killed that when it went from a dedicated micro-car platform to the Corolla's for the 2nd gen xB. It gained 600 lbs in one model year.

 

[KentState]

Sorry, I consider reliability as the number one quality in a car. Toyota is the most reliable.
And I don't consider car and driver or usnews to be unbiased sources for info about cars.

Any proof that Toyota is number one in quality across all makes? I would trust an actual publication over your biased rants.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Jack Baruth did a good article over on TTAC about the death of Scion. He gets a bit into politics but the underlying point was young people's ability to afford these cars. With so many people in the <25 age category having college debt and living in their parent's basement it's no surprise that a youth oriented brand had a hard time selling new cars. The kids were all getting hand me down cars.

My personal perspective on Scion was Toyota Corporate jumping on a trend WAY after it was already dead. The sport compact tuner culture of the late 80's and early 90's was dead and gone by the time Scion came to market.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Jack Baruth did a good article over on TTAC about the death of Scion. He gets a bit into politics but the underlying point was young people's ability to afford these cars. With so many people in the <25 age category having college debt and living in their parent's basement it's no surprise that a youth oriented brand had a hard time selling new cars. The kids were all getting hand me down cars.

My personal perspective on Scion was Toyota Corporate jumping on a trend WAY after it was already dead. The sport compact tuner culture of the late 80's and early 90's was dead and gone by the time Scion came to market.

Yeah, their coolest car was $27k new. Someone in their early twenties can't afford that.

 

[SAWYER]

I have a Scion XA I drive to work, damn good car and very reliable and was cheap. I bought it used and paid $2800, would buy another and get several years worth of driving for next to nothing. The only complaints I have is no cruise control and no temp guage

 

[AdamK47]

This is excellent news.

 

[marincounty]

Any proof that Toyota is number one in quality across all makes? I would trust an actual publication over your biased rants.

Here you go, but I don't know what time period this pertains to:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/how-car-brands-compare-for-reliability

In one of the magazines they have a ten-year reliability chart, Toyota #1, Honda #2
However, I doubt you will believe any information outside of your bubble.

 

[Drako]

Reality disagrees with you. I notice you didn't name any.

Reality seems to be your weak point. You equate Consumer report reliability numbers with what makes a better car. Most of us here are a little more sophisticated than that.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I've owned three Toyota's as well as Nissan's and an Acura and in my personal experience the quality Toyota made a name on isn't what it once was. The 79 Corolla I has was a great car made very well but pretty spartan as one might expect for a car in that segment in the late 70's. I could shift it with one finger.

I then upgraded to a 85 Celica and it was similarly well made and reliable and a step up in amenities from the Corolla.

My last Toyota, a 2004 Matrix XR was reliable from a drive train point of view, but the fit and finish was pathetic. Most of the front underside panels and covers constantly popped out of there plastic fasteners and had to be pushed back in only to pop out a few miles later. The cover around the drivers side front wheel well kept popping off and rubbing against the tire which eventually burned a hole in it.

So, Toyota may still do well in some studies of quality as there drive trains tend to be bullet proof, but the fit and finish, at least for the lower model cars, is not what it used to be.


Brian

 

[marincounty]

I've owned three Toyota's as well as Nissan's and an Acura and in my personal experience the quality Toyota made a name on isn't what it once was. The 79 Corolla I has was a great car made very well but pretty spartan as one might expect for a car in that segment in the late 70's. I could shift it with one finger.

I then upgraded to a 85 Celica and it was similarly well made and reliable and a step up in amenities from the Corolla.

My last Toyota, a 2004 Matrix XR was reliable from a drive train point of view, but the fit and finish was pathetic. Most of the front underside panels and covers constantly popped out of there plastic fasteners and had to be pushed back in only to pop out a few miles later. The cover around the drivers side front wheel well kept popping off and rubbing against the tire which eventually burned a hole in it.

So, Toyota may still do well in some studies of quality as there drive trains tend to be bullet proof, but the fit and finish, at least for the lower model cars, is not what it used to be.


Brian

You can always buy a BMW if you want beautiful paint and nice fit and finish. If you want to get from point A to point B there is nothing more economical than Toyota.

 

[marincounty]

Reality seems to be your weak point. You equate Consumer report reliability numbers with what makes a better car. Most of us here are a little more sophisticated than that.

By sophisticated you mean you use anecdotal evidence, like your family always drove Fords so Fords are the best right?
I am constantly hearing that CR auto studies are garbage, but what have you got?
Your sources are publications that accept auto advertising or use the JD power 90 day quality study. Any car can seem like quality for 90 days. How about after 9 years?

 

[Brian Stirling]

You can always buy a BMW if you want beautiful paint and nice fit and finish. If you want to get from point A to point B there is nothing more economical than Toyota.

I don't think it's too much to ask that the body panels don't just decide to fall off -- even for an economy car. Back in the day Toyota was able to make and sell cars, even economy cars, that were both reliable and had decent to very good fit and finish. The drive trains have almost always been very good and that's been a major factor in there generally high place on the quality reports, but one should not have to accept poor fit and finish in order to get a decent drive train.


Brian

 

[marincounty]

I don't think it's too much to ask that the body panels don't just decide to fall off -- even for an economy car. Back in the day Toyota was able to make and sell cars, even economy cars, that were both reliable and had decent to very good fit and finish. The drive trains have almost always been very good and that's been a major factor in there generally high place on the quality reports, but one should not have to accept poor fit and finish in order to get a decent drive train.


Brian

It's called a Lexus.

 

[Brian Stirling]

It's called a Lexus.

Thirty five years ago you got that with a sub $8K Corolla.


Brian

 

[xaeniac]

never understood scion tbh

 

[MongGrel]

The Scion brand lost the magic when 20 somethings started slapping fart cans on them thinking they were fast and furious.

Fart cans, I'll remember that now.

I kind of wondered what to reference that to, I made a comment about that to the wife the other day about why anyone would want to do that to an exhaust, it just sounds a bit pathetic.

I guess I had custom dual glass packs on my Camaro back in the 70's, was a bit of a different thing.

 

[NutBucket]

Yeah, their coolest car was $27k new. Someone in their early twenties can't afford that.

Huh? At 23 my wife bought a WRX and I bought a Legacy GT. Damn, that was a decade ago!

 

[ChronoReverse]

I don't think it's too much to ask that the body panels don't just decide to fall off -- even for an economy car. Back in the day Toyota was able to make and sell cars, even economy cars, that were both reliable and had decent to very good fit and finish. The drive trains have almost always been very good and that's been a major factor in there generally high place on the quality reports, but one should not have to accept poor fit and finish in order to get a decent drive train.


Brian

Anecdotal evidence isn't useful. I have a 10 year old Matrix base model and panels are not falling off. I guess we cancel out.