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Scientists just got closer to understanding the link between genetics and crime.

P

PokerGuy

Lifer
Interesting read on yahoo about it here, with the full study from nature.com here.

It is well documented that ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) is wildly over represented in jails. About 1-3% of the general population has the disorder, while 40-70% of jail inmates have the disorder. Nothing about that is all that surprising -- duh, you're more likely to find people with "aggression, irritability, disregard for rules, disregard for other people, and dishonesty" in jail (or running for president!). What is new is that scientists have now been able to start mapping specific genes that appear to cause or are strongly related with ASPD.

Scientists are obviously concerned about this research being incorrectly used (for example in court or as a predictive tool), but If this research is accurate, it could have rather wide ranging implications. With breast cancer, some people with certain genetic markers know they are tremendously more likely to develop the disease, and some take rather drastic pre-emptive actions to reduce or eliminate the risk. What if we get to the point where you can determine based on genetic markers that someone is tremendously more likely to be or become a criminal? What if you do statistical analysis and can start making inferences for groups?
 
PokerGuy said:
Interesting read on yahoo about it here, with the full study from nature.com here.

It is well documented that ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) is wildly over represented in jails. About 1-3% of the general population has the disorder, while 40-70% of jail inmates have the disorder. Nothing about that is all that surprising -- duh, you're more likely to find people with "aggression, irritability, disregard for rules, disregard for other people, and dishonesty" in jail (or running for president!). What is new is that scientists have now been able to start mapping specific genes that appear to cause or are strongly related with ASPD.

Scientists are obviously concerned about this research being incorrectly used (for example in court or as a predictive tool), but If this research is accurate, it could have rather wide ranging implications. With breast cancer, some people with certain genetic markers know they are tremendously more likely to develop the disease, and some take rather drastic pre-emptive actions to reduce or eliminate the risk. What if we get to the point where you can determine based on genetic markers that someone is tremendously more likely to be or become a criminal? What if you do statistical analysis and can start making inferences for groups?
Click to expand...

Insurance companies are going to love this!
 
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A former teacher of mine used to work in a prison school, and an interesting thing he noticed was that a quite disproportionate number of students there were left handed.

So precedent for this kind of thing might well already exist, and I suppose opinions vary on what to do about it, particularly with the left handed and maybe gingers.
 
Here's the worst part... we will stereotype everyone who fits into the category even though there will be plenty of folks in said group who rise above the statistical odds.
 
Seems to me common sense that being incarcerated would pretty much lead to getting this condition. I know I almost certainly would. I'm not seeing any proof that genetics are the causation.
 
Thump553 said:
Seems to me common sense that being incarcerated would pretty much lead to getting this condition. I know I almost certainly would. I'm not seeing any proof that genetics are the causation.
Click to expand...

That's not really how genes/alleles work. What they're looking at is heritable and part of a person's genome (DNA containing differences in the sequence from most people, which in turn leads to production of proteins different from most people, which in turn can lead to a phenotype/condition). There's plenty of stuff involving epigenetics out there, where experiencing a trauma causes a modification to DNA which in turn changes personality, but the chemical basis for that is through an entirely different mechanism. A rough analogy is that if our genome is like a book, our cells have the ability to choose which pages to read more or less frequently based on experience (epigenetics, methylation of DNA modulates accessibility of genes by transcription factors), but the actual text only gets edited when random errors/mutations are incorporated (genetics, base pairs get changed).
 
bshole said:
Isn't it true that most leaders have these qualities? The gene that predicts criminality also predicts leaders.
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Dunno about most leaders but it seems obvious that many raised under the right conditions turn out to be among the fabled Jerb Creators (AKA the Lootocracy) while those who are not end up in prison.

Imagine living in a time when arrogant pampered assholes like Trump ruled by Divine Right.
 
bshole said:
Isn't it true that most leaders have these qualities? The gene that predicts criminality also predicts leaders.
Click to expand...

Some degree of sociopathy can be a useful tool either in the path to or in leadership positions. It's interesting you mention the leadership/criminality dichotomy because the theme of modern egalitarian ideals are rules which forbid conduct which might've led to particularly bold or fearsome leaders in the past. For example, consider the proverbial alpha-male. Contradictory to common belief, the kind of behavior generally exhibited by alphas in the wild if acted out by people tend to land them in prison instead of some mgmt role.
 
It's MAOA, the "Warrior Gene," all over again.

On an unrelated note, I think I'm about to hit capacity on acronyms.

Edit: I'm realizing I don't know what MAOA stands for so I may already be at capacity!
 
agent00f said:
Some degree of sociopathy can be a useful tool either in the path to or in leadership positions. It's interesting you mention the leadership/criminality dichotomy because the theme of modern egalitarian ideals are rules which forbid conduct which might've led to particularly bold or fearsome leaders in the past. For example, consider the proverbial alpha-male. Contradictory to common belief, the kind of behavior generally exhibited by alphas in the wild if acted out by people tend to land them in prison instead of some mgmt role.
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I think it would be mandatory. If you gave a crap about what other people thought about you, the amount of bashing you would receive as a leader would destroy you emotionally. There is no way I could withstand that kind of abuse. I am a follower and I am comfortable as such. Of course I am the back-biting, bitching, never satisfied, hateful kind of follower. I couldn't be happy if I wasn't.
 
Thump553 said:
Seems to me common sense that being incarcerated would pretty much lead to getting this condition. I know I almost certainly would. I'm not seeing any proof that genetics are the causation.
Click to expand...

Someone didn't read the article 😉

That's essentially what they are doing, identifying genes that are connected with people having the condition. If you have this particular gene or set of genes, you are x times more likely to have the condition and thus x times more likely to be a criminal and end up in prison. What the scientists want to avoid is it being used like this: "hey, Thump553, you have this set of genes so you must be a criminal, you just haven't been caught yet". Or, "jury members, Thump553 has this set of genes strongly connected with being a criminal, he's obviously guilty of this crime we've charged him with!". The potential for misuse is high, but this is cool research, thanks for the link OP.
 
Jhhnn said:
Dunno about most leaders but it seems obvious that many raised under the right conditions turn out to be among the fabled Jerb Creators (AKA the Lootocracy) while those who are not end up in prison.

Imagine living in a time when arrogant pampered assholes like Trump ruled by Divine Right.
Click to expand...

Must you bring this bullshit into an actual interesting thread? This science is about genes and connecting them to certain traits, not about anyone "raised under the right conditions" and your jerb creator bullshit.
 
How about the big "criminals", Banksters, self serving CEOs Wall street tycoons along with their bought and paid for politicians, you know the ones that can cause more damage to society than a prison full of little people,

is it genetics or narcissism acquired from their parents and peers that lets them put aside any ethics or morality that allows them not only to create but justify the environments that help enable the problems we have in society?
 
1prophet said:
How about the big "criminals", Banksters, self serving CEOs Wall street tycoons along with their bought and paid for politicians, you know the ones that can cause more damage to society than a prison full of little people,

is it genetics or narcissism acquired from their parents and peers that lets them put aside any ethics or morality that allows them not only to create but justify the environments that help enable the problems we have in society?
Click to expand...

What does this drivel have to do with tying genetic markers to a particular condition closely associated with criminality?
 
PokerGuy said:
What does this drivel have to do with tying genetic markers to a particular condition closely associated with criminality?
Click to expand...

It ties into the nature vs nurture side of it. Master criminals are as much made as born that way. If it's heritable rather than random it opens up a whole new line of thought.
 
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