Scientists find "possibly habitable" distant planet

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: OS
Besides, none of those points really address general relativity and how we are going to get around it if we plan to realistically send people there.

We are not going to send people there, at least not in any materialistic biological form. Acceleration and decceleration are far bigger problems than the actual speed of travel. Making the whole thing habitable for a biological human would exponentiate that problem to ridiculous proportions.

Again, we could get there, and eventually it's inevitable that we will, but considering the pace of technology, sooner or later humans themselves will be just as different as the technology around them and the trip to a different system will be nothing like you could imagine today. If you have to make assumptions about what great technological hurdles we must overcome to even attempt such a thing, you cannot ignore the great technological changes to the human condition itself.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: OS
Besides, none of those points really address general relativity and how we are going to get around it if we plan to realistically send people there.

We are not going to send people there, at least not in any materialistic biological form. Acceleration and decceleration are far bigger problems than the actual speed of travel. Making the whole thing habitable for a biological human would exponentiate that problem to ridiculous proportions.

Again, we could get there, and eventually it's inevitable that we will, but considering the pace of technology, sooner or later humans themselves will be just as different as the technology around them and the trip to a different system will be nothing like you could imagine today. If you have to make assumptions about what great technological hurdles we must overcome to even attempt such a thing, you cannot ignore the great technological changes to the human condition itself.

Ya know it's things like this that make me upset to have not been born later in time...

At the same time, though, I can't even imagine living without the knowledge we have now. I guess it's just our time... I just really wish I could see what life will be like a few hundred years from now.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: OS
Besides, none of those points really address general relativity and how we are going to get around it if we plan to realistically send people there.

We are not going to send people there, at least not in any materialistic biological form. Acceleration and decceleration are far bigger problems than the actual speed of travel. Making the whole thing habitable for a biological human would exponentiate that problem to ridiculous proportions.

Again, we could get there, and eventually it's inevitable that we will, but considering the pace of technology, sooner or later humans themselves will be just as different as the technology around them and the trip to a different system will be nothing like you could imagine today. If you have to make assumptions about what great technological hurdles we must overcome to even attempt such a thing, you cannot ignore the great technological changes to the human condition itself.

Yup...imagine people back in B.C. times...they probably couldn't fathom what we're able to do today...and we probably can't fathom what people in 1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000 years from now are able to do.

 

[NanoStuff]

BC times? People 100 years ago couldn't 'fathom' the world today. There's no reason to imagine 1000 years out, 50 years from now our lives will be nothing like most people would be willing to believe today. The human is great at creating technology, but terrible at predicting it's implications. Realistically, all the technology created in the last 2000 years will pale in comparison to the next 50. The more technology you have, the faster you can make more technology. An explosive feedback loop is what it is.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
BC times? People 100 years ago couldn't 'fathom' the world today. There's no reason to imagine 1000 years out, 50 years from now our lives will be nothing like most people would be willing to believe today. The human is great at creating technology, but terrible at predicting it's implications. Realistically, all the technology created in the last 2000 years will pale in comparison to the next 50. The more technology you have, the faster you can make more technology. An explosive feedback loop is what it is.

That's gotta be bad news somewhere down the line.

 

[WildHorse]

Here's a picture of the place:
Gliese 581 and the Habitable Zone

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
BC times? People 100 years ago couldn't 'fathom' the world today. There's no reason to imagine 1000 years out, 50 years from now our lives will be nothing like most people would be willing to believe today. The human is great at creating technology, but terrible at predicting it's implications. Realistically, all the technology created in the last 2000 years will pale in comparison to the next 50. The more technology you have, the faster you can make more technology. An explosive feedback loop is what it is.

That's gotta be bad news somewhere down the line.

Probably. Wouldn't surprise me if we're all gone by 2050. We either achieve utopia or dystopia in this century, there will be no middle ground.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
BC times? People 100 years ago couldn't 'fathom' the world today. There's no reason to imagine 1000 years out, 50 years from now our lives will be nothing like most people would be willing to believe today. The human is great at creating technology, but terrible at predicting it's implications. Realistically, all the technology created in the last 2000 years will pale in comparison to the next 50. The more technology you have, the faster you can make more technology. An explosive feedback loop is what it is.

That's gotta be bad news somewhere down the line.

Our technology does seem to be growing at a rate faster than our primate brains can keep up with. The majority of the population isn't trained to be able to properly integrate the technology into their lives. For example, look at cars. They can be quite dangerous when used improperly, and people get careless or even wreckless with them. They use their cars as extensions of ego, a way of trying to exert power over others. That kind of behavior might have been useful hundreds of thousands of years ago to scare off predators or rivals. Many people seem to think we've come a long way from those times.

What I see are technological extensions of our animal behavior. Animals may use colorful plumage to attract mates, or engage in mating dances. We give small sparkly rocks, and dance to electronically replicated music. Animals engage in local conflicts over resources, often using their own bodies as weapons. We have technology to augment this behavior, for more effective killing. Animals may make loud noise to make themselves appear more menacing than they actually are. We put "fart pipes" on cars and revel in loud stereo systems. Animals eat foods that taste good, which happens to provide them with the nutrients they require; that's how they evolved. That which was nutritious came to evoke the reaction of "Damn that's some delicious fruit!" in animals that ate it. We've learned to separate the taste from the nutrition, and chronic weight problems are becoming more severe.

More technology, and the power it brings, requires the knowledge and discipline to be able
to use it in a way that is beneficial. I worry that we may progess far too quickly in the future, faster than our brains are able to keep up with. At best, it may simply result in a sort of "market correction," wherein progress is slowed, or else something is done to improve our minds over what nature provided. Or, at worst, it may result in some unforseen advance that makes endangerment of our species possible, perhaps something like antimatter weaponry, or even things we haven't yet imagined.

 

[OS]

it's great when people try to predict the future, complete with hypersonic airliners and flying cars.

 

[gerwen]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Our technology does seem to be growing at a rate faster than our primate brains can keep up with. The majority of the population isn't trained to be able to properly integrate the technology into their lives. For example, look at cars. They can be quite dangerous when used improperly, and people get careless or even wreckless with them. They use their cars as extensions of ego, a way of trying to exert power over others. That kind of behavior might have been useful hundreds of thousands of years ago to scare off predators or rivals. Many people seem to think we've come a long way from those times.

What I see are technological extensions of our animal behavior. Animals may use colorful plumage to attract mates, or engage in mating dances. We give small sparkly rocks, and dance to electronically replicated music. Animals engage in local conflicts over resources, often using their own bodies as weapons. We have technology to augment this behavior, for more effective killing. Animals may make loud noise to make themselves appear more menacing than they actually are. We put "fart pipes" on cars and revel in loud stereo systems. Animals eat foods that taste good, which happens to provide them with the nutrients they require; that's how they evolved. That which was nutritious came to evoke the reaction of "Damn that's some delicious fruit!" in animals that ate it. We've learned to separate the taste from the nutrition, and chronic weight problems are becoming more severe.

More technology, and the power it brings, requires the knowledge and discipline to be able
to use it in a way that is beneficial. I worry that we may progess far too quickly in the future, faster than our brains are able to keep up with. At best, it may simply result in a sort of "market correction," wherein progress is slowed, or else something is done to improve our minds over what nature provided. Or, at worst, it may result in some unforseen advance that makes endangerment of our species possible, perhaps something like antimatter weaponry, or even things we haven't yet imagined.

Agreed. We are closer to the animals we descended from than most people are willing to believe, and our animal behaviors are responsible for much of our trouble. If technology could provide us a way to separate our instincts from us, we could consider our motivations rather than be ruled by them.

If you haven't read Naked Ape by Desmond Morris, you should. You're paralleling a lot of his ideas, and it's a truly interesting read.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: paulxcook
There's no guarantee this planet even exists anymore.

The light data we're reading is only 20 years old. While true, the planet probably hasn't been destroyed in the last 20 years.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Oscar1613

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: dman
I wonder what the scientists on that planet would calculate the temperature on MARS to be based on the size of our sun and it's perceived distance from it? I'm just guessing that Mars probably looks like a reasonably hospitable planet from 20LY away.

That said, It's still cool information. That is, until we see the colony and war ships heading towards us that left 19.9years ago at the speed of light.

Mars is pretty habitable. I mean, we could, with current technology build a self sustaining colony. The hard part is getting the stuff to build it over there. Same for Venus, which would be the perfect home for a "cloud city" but we can't afford to send people there...yet.

yeah and the temperatures that can melt lead and constant sulfuric acid rain... piece of cake to inhabit

Yeah im not getting the venus assertion, mars is much more habitable.

Ahem, bold added for clarification

Actually, there is an altitude range in Venus' atmosphere at which the air pressure is the same as Earth's sea level, and the temperature is just right. Of course the air isn't breathable, but the major hurdles are still removed.

Also, "all" we have to do is remove most of Venus' carbon dioxide and the planet should be entirely habitable. Removing the CO2 would fix the suffocation and air pressure problems because there simply is so much of it.

Yes, yes, linky. I'm tired, so look it up yourself, it's on Wikipedia.

Anyway, I don't really care about this planet, anything that may come of it is too far in the future to predict with any reliability, meanwhile I still have college to pay for and all that fun stuff.

 

[ribbon13]

I'd say 300 years before this planet becomes Miranda.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Jgtdragon
my question is how many years is one light year?!?!

It's a measurement of distance, not time

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
<blockquote>quote:
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
LOL I cant believe there are so many skeptics here... Of course we will make it there, and it wont take long

I bet people in 1900 laughed at the idea of going to outer space, or having satellites around earth, and now its been done... Science always advanced faster than you would think, so never say "never"</blockquote>

I don't think people are skeptical of life outside our solar system.. Statistically speaking, it would be almost impossible for there not to be thousands, if not millions of planets that could support life, given the vast nature of the universe. However, given the distances and time required to reach those planets, you don't have to be a skeptic to understand that there is a very high likelyhood that we will NEVER be able to travel those distances.. We can't even imagine the possiblity of traveling 1/100th the speed of light, what makes you think we could actually reach the speed of ligth while maintaining the structural integrity of the craft? If it was possible don't you think a few UFO's would have visited us by now???

What has always been incredible to me about these discussions is the obtuse assumption that simply increasing speed in the current way we understand it now is the only possible means of going from one place to another. We cannot violate relativity? Maybe not, but that doesn't mean we cannot get around it. Warping space, wormholes, some ideas. The more accurate and honest answer IMO is that we really have no idea.

We speak about incredible distances that characterize the universe. Well there are also incredible timescales as well. 500 light years is a long way. 5 million years is a long time. Both are relatively miniscule in comparison to the sheer vastness of space, and time gone by.

Consider what leaps in technology have occurred in the last 300 years.

Imagine three million years from now, (assuming non-destruction) what magnitude of advances will have taken place?

Consider the concept of the technological singularity. Humans advance faster and faster. But then they begin integrating with technology.

Hypothetical example:

80 years from now, humans begin modifying genes to increase their potential. They also begin integrating technology to do the same. A Moore's Law of mental capability begins. The first have their IQ's boosted to 200. Supersmart, and able to further improve the technology, a few years later, intellectual ability or IQ's of 500 arise, and then 1000, 10,000, 100,000, 3 million, 6 billion, 5 trillion, 10 trillion

3 million years of advancement from there?


Of course the IQ example is just to illustrate the point. If not human beings, perhaps computing power, or both.



My point is this:


Perhaps vast distances require vast timescales in order to be traversed. 5,000 light years is not a large distance relatively speaking. Neither is 5 million years of existence in the history of the universe.

Let's not be too arrogant in our total knowlege of existence.

 

[Raiden256]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Bah, we needs to find the Stargate and fast!

EDIT: Then find some people to play Russian Roulette to find this place!

Der... we'd obviously send a MALP first!

 

[Modelworks]

I always hate listening to astronomers talk.
They say things like "its really not that far from us" and "Fairly soon this star will be close enough to interact with planet x"
Then they reveal , not far , is 6 billion miles, and fairly soon is, within the next 5 million years.

I get my hopes up its going to be something to look forward to, then learn its something to look forward to , millions of years from now

 

[JTsyo]

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/070425-habitable-planet.htm

I'd say take the page for what it's worth, but if this is indeed true, what do you think the chances of actually spending time and energy researching it further are?

Edit: CNN Link

Looks like they put more effort into it.

new planet found

 

[Albatross]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heim_theory
Maybe this guy had it right..He is German,after all.

 

[rasczak]

Looks like they put more effort into it.

new planet found

I wonder how much time it has left as a habitable planet, considering it's circling around a dwarf star.

"The average temperature on the planet is estimated to be between -31 to -12C, but the ground temperature would vary from blazing hot on the bright side and freezing on the dark side."

That's habitable? How would anyone grow anything for food there?

 

[mizzou]

So if you are moving at the speed if light and continuosly send a message to earth every seconds, would earth not recieve a message every second?

 

[mizzou]

On a side note , terraforming is a better alternative obviously

 

[surfsatwerk]

On a side note , terraforming is a better alternative obviously

Yeah until we stumble upon one of these and have to nuke the site from orbit.

 

[FTM0305]

That's approx 120,246,768,000,000 miles away, right? [correct me if wrong]... (I don't think anyone will be gettin o'er there too soon )

Ok there was already a thread on this article. Worm holes is the way to go.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Necro thread!