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school votes to change it's name from Jefferson Davis Elementary to Barack Obama Elementary

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ch33zw1z said:
Or racist confederate traitors.

There was a city near me that was consistently failing the state requirements. They were taken over, all new people. The current administration will lose they're jobs.
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If they didn't teach the difference between their/there/they're...then they should... 😛
 
tweaker2 said:
Not sure I've mentioned this before, but it's not a coincidence that traditionalists/nativists are in concert with religious fundamentalists where many of those folks are all of the aforementioned.
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Not knowing the bounds between fantasy and reality is a real problem indeed.
 
zinfamous said:
good thing is, those people will soon be dead. From their ashes will grow subsequent generations of humans that will be disgusted by their ancestors, as it always will be.
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It is only a matter of time before Millennials too long for good ol' days around the turn of the century.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Or racist confederate traitors.

There was a city near me that was consistently failing the state requirements. They were taken over, all new people. The current administration will lose they're jobs.
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lol Apparently failing schools is a subject on which you are quite conversant. 😉

Spellcheck in general needs to get a freakin' clue, as its edits are about as often wrong as right. I still have no idea why whoever wrote my spellcheck thinks "guitar" must always be capitalized.
 
after two years of fighting my phone, i just disabled all the text entry garbage. i do know the correct usage those, i promice

sometimes it was correcting my legit words to gibberish.
 
Victim culture. Always destined to find something wrong with life. Their only historical knowledge is what has occurred in the last 5 years.

Simply put - Not surprising, everyone has their head up their arse. Either way I'm not going to cry about spilled milk, but it's not surprising how woefully ignorant people are in this country.

EDIT: Hopefully it's a school with lots of mexicans, so that you can have the ultimate irony in that they named it after the deporter-in-chief. hehehehe
 
I still don't get the "You're wiping out history if you take down that statue, rename that school/road/etc." rhetoric bs.

We don't record our history via statues, we record history in books. Statues, building naming, street naming are just vehicles to memorialize and aggrandize selected bits of history, like people, events, etc.

So, how is renaming a school or removing a statue erasing history, because that's the narrative more than a few conservatives have been using to justify not removing statues or renaming buildings, etc.?
 
Meghan54 said:
I still don't get the "You're wiping out history if you take down that statue, rename that school/road/etc." rhetoric bs.

We don't record our history via statues, we record history in books. Statues, building naming, street naming are just vehicles to memorialize and aggrandize selected bits of history, like people, events, etc.

So, how is renaming a school or removing a statue erasing history, because that's the narrative more than a few conservatives have been using to justify not removing statues or renaming buildings, etc.?
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You're erasing the history of triumphalism. By rinsing the salt out of the wound you are diminishing the history of the folks who poured the salt in there.

It's a variation on the Ulster Unionists demanding to march through Catholic neighborhoods on July the 12th. It's part of their heritage to put the papists in their place. Preventing the Unionists from marching through Catholic neighborhoods is an attack on Unionist culture and tradition.
 
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s0me0nesmind1 said:
Victim culture. Always destined to find something wrong with life. Their only historical knowledge is what has occurred in the last 5 years.

Simply put - Not surprising, everyone has their head up their arse. Either way I'm not going to cry about spilled milk, but it's not surprising how woefully ignorant people are in this country.

EDIT: Hopefully it's a school with lots of mexicans, so that you can have the ultimate irony in that they named it after the deporter-in-chief. hehehehe
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Your sheets are showing.
 
IronWing said:
You're erasing the history of triumphalism. By rinsing the salt out of the wound you are diminishing the history of the folks who poured the salt in there.

It's a variation on the Ulster Unionists demanding to march through Catholic neighborhoods on July the 12th. It's part of their heritage to put the papists in their place. Preventing the Unionists from marching through Catholic neighborhoods is an attack on Unionist culture and tradition.
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I can't tell if you are being sarcastic (or at least, to what degree). But that's probably a genuine point. It's why conflicts are unavoidable in this world.
 
pmv said:
People tend to operate on a need-to-know basis.

If you have sufficient power and security you don't _need_ to know the difference between fantasy and reality.
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Can you say more? I think I have an adequate concept of what you're expressing, but I'm curious.
 
interchange said:
Can you say more? I think I have an adequate concept of what you're expressing, but I'm curious.
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Well, it's why women tend to know more about men than men do about women, why black people are more aware of white people's behaviour and circumstances than the reverse, and why Trump has been able to go through life being only on nodding terms with reality and believing all kinds of untrue things.

Its why motorists in this country have an invincible belief in the existence of a 'road tax', that gives them ownership of the road, even though there's no such thing.

If you are in a position of vulnerability there's a Darwinian effect that means delusions can be self-limiting.

Am tempted to mention that this also applies to psychiatrists vs some of their clients. A lot of mental-health professionals have believed a lot of irrational, non-evidence-based, things for much of history. And did much better out of it than their clients did.

(What's that word for mentioning something by saying you aren't going to mention it?...consults wikipedia...oh yeah, apophasis! I can never remember that word!)
 
pmv said:
Well, it's why women tend to know more about men than men do about women, why black people are more aware of white people's behaviour and circumstances than the reverse, and why Trump has been able to go through life being only on nodding terms with reality and believing all kinds of untrue things.

Its why motorists in this country have an invincible belief in the existence of a 'road tax', that gives them ownership of the road, even though there's no such thing.

If you are in a position of vulnerability there's a Darwinian effect that means delusions can be self-limiting.

Am tempted to mention that this also applies to psychiatrists vs some of their clients. A lot of mental-health professionals have believed a lot of irrational, non-evidence-based, things for much of history. And did much better out of it than their clients did.

(What's that word for mentioning something by saying you aren't going to mention it?...consults wikipedia...oh yeah, apophasis! I can never remember that word!)
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Thanks. I like philosophical discussions, and really that's what I get out of being here. If anyone objects to this direction of the thread, let me know and I'll be happy to refrain and/or engage via PM.

I will say a few things to your points:
  • Regardless of the scenario, no person can know all of themselves without the aid of others
  • I think your point is more speaking to the reasons why this is the case and observing (correctly) that sufficient power and security are serious inhibitors of the pursuit of knowing yourself in ways that may be plainly obvious to others; simply put, any motivations a person might have to challenge their mastery of their perceptions is easily overpowered if they are lavishly rewarded by their faulty understandings
  • While this observation correlates with whiteness, maleness, money, occupation, possession (e.g. of a vehicle), I would caution in holding it absolute on a basis of those observations; our minds are very good at transforming or discarding observations when they challenge our world view;
  • to automatically presume you are more expert in the behavior of, say a white man if you were a black woman, would be to repeat the same error you are fighting against
  • This loop reinforces our separation. We see these faults more easily in those who hold power over us because that power makes these faults more impactful. I believe that, if we are dedicated to humankind challenging the injustices of those with power, it can only be successful through reciprocally challenging ourselves
In regard to your observation about psychiatrists (et al.), it is an astute one. But, funny enough, the actual success of a psychiatric treatment rests more in the patient's and provider's belief in said treatment than the objective efficacy of the treatment itself. For example, the COMBINE study for alcohol dependence was revolutionary because it demonstrated that the placebo alone for alcohol dependence was superior to even intensive behavioral intervention. Other studies have shown that the outcomes of antidepressant trials are more dependent upon which doctor is prescribing the medication than whether a patient is receiving placebo or active drug. There is a bunch of literature on the placebo effect overall.

But herein lies the importance. The fantasy aspect of what we do is a more powerful determinant of behavior, happiness, etc., than the reality. The above results are replicated in many non-psychiatric treatments. The vast majority of benefit that nearly any doctor provides rests within the beliefs inherent in the patient and physician that something will be understood, cared about, and benefited, in the authority the patient perceives in the doctor, and in the institutional ritual that supports this dynamic. This leads us to conclude (correctly) that society's more realistic understandings about the authority and integrity of physicians has actually served to undermine their efficacy despite making positive gains in the ethics of a physician.

But this circles back to my point and yours. It is helpful to engage in fantasy, to idealize, ritualize, and believe in what you are doing. Eschewing that would be the same as taking Christmas off the calendar because we have learned that Santa does not exist. But, instead, we must indulge fantasy and bracket it with a parallel awareness of our biases and recognize when, in reality, those assumptions which are pivotal to our success in general are failing us in a particular case.
 
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