School Uniforms or Dress Code

[piasabird]

You dont have to have Uniforms or Formal Apparrel to have some kind of dress code. The problem is there are always students who will go too far. There are always some girls who think it is cute to wear a mini-skirt so short that they can not bend over for fear of flashing their ass. Since a lot of schools are not air conditioned they should still be able to wear shorts in the hotter months.

When I went to a catholic school once upon a time 1960's the uniform was blue jeans or slacks and the boys wore light blue shirts with collars and tails, but even that would seem a little bit too formal for me for today. I dont think we need suits and ties because I dont even like coats and ties and the schools are not cool enough for even that. As a parent I have had to sweat myself silly going to these stupid school events where the auditorium or the gym at school in the evening was so hot that people were just about passing out from the heat.

Teaching discipline is far more important at the grade school level, but if people dont have discipline by the time they reach high school, they should just be kicked out. Kids need to know who is running the show. Apparently in some schools they think they are running the show.

Maybe a sensible uniform might be a good idea if it was cheap and easily complied with. The problem is some uniforms cost like $50-$60 for some stupid plaid Jumper (Yuck, Yuck, Barf, Barf). So I say just make the parents come pick up the kids if a girl wears a skirt too short or a halter top or kids have on cutoff jeans or clothes with holes in them, or whatever. Either that or send a note home and tell them they can not come back until the parents come talk to the principal. There is something about girls and short skirts. My own sister use to take the skirt off she left the house with and put on a shorter one to go to the public high school in. Girls just cant resist short skirts for some reason. Use to drive my mom nuts.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I spent grades 1,2,6-12 in private school and grades 3-5 in public school. I've seen first hand the benefits, the calming effect that uniforms have. I am 100% for them.

Make them simple. Make them cheap. And enforce them.

Makes boys and girls wear a certain brand/style of blue jeans. Same for the shirt. Same for the tennis shoes. Also have a standard cold-weather coat as well.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I went to most of grade school and middle school at a Catholic school that required fairly strict uniforms. After that, I went to public schools that barely qualified as having any sort of dress standards at all.

Having those two different perspectives, I can honestly say that it makes no difference at all. Really. Uniforms don't solve any sort of widespread issue, and while there may be isolated instances where they are a good idea, I think they rank about 657th on the list of things we should be working on in education, right under a regulation on which kind of graphite students should have in their mechanical pencils.

The reason I believe in uniforms stems from my own personal experience, as well as that of my friends and family.

Putting on certain attire is more than symbolic, it is part of a mental ritual. We put on white to celebrate, black to mourn. The uniform gives the soldier confidence. It's about getting into a state of mind that is appropriate for whatever it is that you're going to be doing. The clothes are nothing more than an external reflection of that.

What is inside my head does not change, but when I put on a white coat, I feel as if it's part of the ritual which allows me to concentrate and assume whatever duties and responsibilities I have. Certainly I do not NEED this formality in order to do my job, but it certainly helps.

I feel that the same can be said for school. Putting on a uniform in the morning may very well help someone assume a receptive and inquisitive state of mind, and be ready to learn.

In addition, I think that uniforms or standardized attire will act to enhance the cohesiveness of the school community, and frankly, give people one less reason to pick on someone.

I'll accept that theory, but think about the message uniforms send. It's not just putting on "certain" attire as part of a mental ritual, it's about putting on attire that was chosen for you, and that you have virtually no say in. While I personally don't find particular clothes all that necessary to my mental preparation, I can understand the concept of putting on attire to get into a particular state on mind.

What is left unsaid, however, is what state of mind that attire brings. There is nothing wrong with the idea of a child having special school clothes, in fact I'd encourage that sort of thing for exactly the reasons you stated. But making the choice of what to wear for them, and making them wear something virtually identical to what everyone else is wearing, sends exactly the wrong message to foster a good learning environment, which is the opposite of what we are going for. It suggests that learning isn't so much about what the student wants as what everyone else wants the student to do.

The little mental preparation techniques often work well because they are personal, attempting to force everyone to follow the SAME path will probably have the opposite affect. I like to get ready for work by getting up and eating a quick breakfast while reading Slashdot, AT, and Google News. I then take a long, hot shower to really get me fully awake. I dress in my work clothes (defined as clothes that look reasonably clean). Then I drive to work, listening to techno to get me pumped up and ready to go. This works for me, but it would be stupid to try to make it work for anybody else. There is nothing wrong with mental rituals, we all have them, but by far the most effective way to use them is to allow kids to come up with their own, regarding their attire and everything else.

Of course I'm assuming that you and I are on the same page when it comes to what's most important about education. I personally think teaching kids to think critically, and independently, is FAR, FAR more important than whatever piece of useless knowledge you happen to be talking to them about. If your goal is to develop students as students first, and individuals second, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

I've never read so much bullcrap in my life!

I've never seen so much individual motivation and achievement as I did the 7 years I attended private middle and high school. Kids quit competing on clothing and focus that energy in competing in academics.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I went to most of grade school and middle school at a Catholic school that required fairly strict uniforms. After that, I went to public schools that barely qualified as having any sort of dress standards at all.

Having those two different perspectives, I can honestly say that it makes no difference at all. Really. Uniforms don't solve any sort of widespread issue, and while there may be isolated instances where they are a good idea, I think they rank about 657th on the list of things we should be working on in education, right under a regulation on which kind of graphite students should have in their mechanical pencils.

The reason I believe in uniforms stems from my own personal experience, as well as that of my friends and family.

Putting on certain attire is more than symbolic, it is part of a mental ritual. We put on white to celebrate, black to mourn. The uniform gives the soldier confidence. It's about getting into a state of mind that is appropriate for whatever it is that you're going to be doing. The clothes are nothing more than an external reflection of that.

What is inside my head does not change, but when I put on a white coat, I feel as if it's part of the ritual which allows me to concentrate and assume whatever duties and responsibilities I have. Certainly I do not NEED this formality in order to do my job, but it certainly helps.

I feel that the same can be said for school. Putting on a uniform in the morning may very well help someone assume a receptive and inquisitive state of mind, and be ready to learn.

In addition, I think that uniforms or standardized attire will act to enhance the cohesiveness of the school community, and frankly, give people one less reason to pick on someone.

I'll accept that theory, but think about the message uniforms send. It's not just putting on "certain" attire as part of a mental ritual, it's about putting on attire that was chosen for you, and that you have virtually no say in. While I personally don't find particular clothes all that necessary to my mental preparation, I can understand the concept of putting on attire to get into a particular state on mind.

What is left unsaid, however, is what state of mind that attire brings. There is nothing wrong with the idea of a child having special school clothes, in fact I'd encourage that sort of thing for exactly the reasons you stated. But making the choice of what to wear for them, and making them wear something virtually identical to what everyone else is wearing, sends exactly the wrong message to foster a good learning environment, which is the opposite of what we are going for. It suggests that learning isn't so much about what the student wants as what everyone else wants the student to do.

The little mental preparation techniques often work well because they are personal, attempting to force everyone to follow the SAME path will probably have the opposite affect. I like to get ready for work by getting up and eating a quick breakfast while reading Slashdot, AT, and Google News. I then take a long, hot shower to really get me fully awake. I dress in my work clothes (defined as clothes that look reasonably clean). Then I drive to work, listening to techno to get me pumped up and ready to go. This works for me, but it would be stupid to try to make it work for anybody else. There is nothing wrong with mental rituals, we all have them, but by far the most effective way to use them is to allow kids to come up with their own, regarding their attire and everything else.

Of course I'm assuming that you and I are on the same page when it comes to what's most important about education. I personally think teaching kids to think critically, and independently, is FAR, FAR more important than whatever piece of useless knowledge you happen to be talking to them about. If your goal is to develop students as students first, and individuals second, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

I've never read so much bullcrap in my life!

I've never seen so much individual motivation and achievement as I did the 7 years I attended private middle and high school. Kids quit competing on clothing and focus that energy in competing in academics.

Did you learn, in all your academic competitive glory, that anecdotal evidence of the kind you're presenting really doesn't mean squat.

 

[Red Dawn]

Catholic School Girls anyone? When I was in High School they were the easiest and they all wore School uniforms.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I went to most of grade school and middle school at a Catholic school that required fairly strict uniforms. After that, I went to public schools that barely qualified as having any sort of dress standards at all.

Having those two different perspectives, I can honestly say that it makes no difference at all. Really. Uniforms don't solve any sort of widespread issue, and while there may be isolated instances where they are a good idea, I think they rank about 657th on the list of things we should be working on in education, right under a regulation on which kind of graphite students should have in their mechanical pencils.

The reason I believe in uniforms stems from my own personal experience, as well as that of my friends and family.

Putting on certain attire is more than symbolic, it is part of a mental ritual. We put on white to celebrate, black to mourn. The uniform gives the soldier confidence. It's about getting into a state of mind that is appropriate for whatever it is that you're going to be doing. The clothes are nothing more than an external reflection of that.

What is inside my head does not change, but when I put on a white coat, I feel as if it's part of the ritual which allows me to concentrate and assume whatever duties and responsibilities I have. Certainly I do not NEED this formality in order to do my job, but it certainly helps.

I feel that the same can be said for school. Putting on a uniform in the morning may very well help someone assume a receptive and inquisitive state of mind, and be ready to learn.

In addition, I think that uniforms or standardized attire will act to enhance the cohesiveness of the school community, and frankly, give people one less reason to pick on someone.

I'll accept that theory, but think about the message uniforms send. It's not just putting on "certain" attire as part of a mental ritual, it's about putting on attire that was chosen for you, and that you have virtually no say in. While I personally don't find particular clothes all that necessary to my mental preparation, I can understand the concept of putting on attire to get into a particular state on mind.

What is left unsaid, however, is what state of mind that attire brings. There is nothing wrong with the idea of a child having special school clothes, in fact I'd encourage that sort of thing for exactly the reasons you stated. But making the choice of what to wear for them, and making them wear something virtually identical to what everyone else is wearing, sends exactly the wrong message to foster a good learning environment, which is the opposite of what we are going for. It suggests that learning isn't so much about what the student wants as what everyone else wants the student to do.

The little mental preparation techniques often work well because they are personal, attempting to force everyone to follow the SAME path will probably have the opposite affect. I like to get ready for work by getting up and eating a quick breakfast while reading Slashdot, AT, and Google News. I then take a long, hot shower to really get me fully awake. I dress in my work clothes (defined as clothes that look reasonably clean). Then I drive to work, listening to techno to get me pumped up and ready to go. This works for me, but it would be stupid to try to make it work for anybody else. There is nothing wrong with mental rituals, we all have them, but by far the most effective way to use them is to allow kids to come up with their own, regarding their attire and everything else.

Of course I'm assuming that you and I are on the same page when it comes to what's most important about education. I personally think teaching kids to think critically, and independently, is FAR, FAR more important than whatever piece of useless knowledge you happen to be talking to them about. If your goal is to develop students as students first, and individuals second, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

I've never read so much bullcrap in my life!

I've never seen so much individual motivation and achievement as I did the 7 years I attended private middle and high school. Kids quit competing on clothing and focus that energy in competing in academics.

Did you learn, in all your academic competitive glory, that anecdotal evidence of the kind you're presenting really doesn't mean squat.

I doubt it, especially because he missed my point. I wasn't talking about academics, I was talking about LEARNING. Schooling is important, but as Oscar Wilde would say, it's worth remembering that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught. Perhaps having some sort of dress code to prevent clothes from being TOO silly is ok, to make sure students are able to spend at least some time focusing on academics, but forcing them to look like a bunch of carbon copies doesn't exactly encourage the OTHER kind of learning.

Read my last paragraph again, I'm 140% positive (yes, my lack of a uniform in later years prevented me from correctly understanding percetages) that you fall into the latter catagory, one of those people who thinks our academic model should be Japan. Which is fine, but the reason you think my idea is bullcrap is because you have different goals for education than I do. The funny thing is, though, they aren't mutually exclusive goals.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I went to most of grade school and middle school at a Catholic school that required fairly strict uniforms. After that, I went to public schools that barely qualified as having any sort of dress standards at all.

Having those two different perspectives, I can honestly say that it makes no difference at all. Really. Uniforms don't solve any sort of widespread issue, and while there may be isolated instances where they are a good idea, I think they rank about 657th on the list of things we should be working on in education, right under a regulation on which kind of graphite students should have in their mechanical pencils.

The reason I believe in uniforms stems from my own personal experience, as well as that of my friends and family.

Putting on certain attire is more than symbolic, it is part of a mental ritual. We put on white to celebrate, black to mourn. The uniform gives the soldier confidence. It's about getting into a state of mind that is appropriate for whatever it is that you're going to be doing. The clothes are nothing more than an external reflection of that.

What is inside my head does not change, but when I put on a white coat, I feel as if it's part of the ritual which allows me to concentrate and assume whatever duties and responsibilities I have. Certainly I do not NEED this formality in order to do my job, but it certainly helps.

I feel that the same can be said for school. Putting on a uniform in the morning may very well help someone assume a receptive and inquisitive state of mind, and be ready to learn.

In addition, I think that uniforms or standardized attire will act to enhance the cohesiveness of the school community, and frankly, give people one less reason to pick on someone.

Wow... that is all I could say to that.. very scary...

Our school system is a joke as it is.. to force people to wear certain clothes(uncomfortable and strict) would simply create more anger towards to establishment you are forced to go to school in. Kids hate going to school as it is.. do you think they would be more willing to learn after being forced to wear ridiculous getups? Nope.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We don't want children to become educated. We want them to grow up to be the tiny limited conforming mental midgets that we are. And our success rate is tremendous. It is truly amazing that people can't see that everything is exactly as they wish it to be. If we actually cared about our kids they would thrive, uniforms or no. But we live in a world of delusions because truth hurts.

Can you please stop threadcrapping in my topic.

You mean, you want him to stop saying things that you don't like...

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I went to most of grade school and middle school at a Catholic school that required fairly strict uniforms. After that, I went to public schools that barely qualified as having any sort of dress standards at all.

Having those two different perspectives, I can honestly say that it makes no difference at all. Really. Uniforms don't solve any sort of widespread issue, and while there may be isolated instances where they are a good idea, I think they rank about 657th on the list of things we should be working on in education, right under a regulation on which kind of graphite students should have in their mechanical pencils.

The reason I believe in uniforms stems from my own personal experience, as well as that of my friends and family.

Putting on certain attire is more than symbolic, it is part of a mental ritual. We put on white to celebrate, black to mourn. The uniform gives the soldier confidence. It's about getting into a state of mind that is appropriate for whatever it is that you're going to be doing. The clothes are nothing more than an external reflection of that.

What is inside my head does not change, but when I put on a white coat, I feel as if it's part of the ritual which allows me to concentrate and assume whatever duties and responsibilities I have. Certainly I do not NEED this formality in order to do my job, but it certainly helps.

I feel that the same can be said for school. Putting on a uniform in the morning may very well help someone assume a receptive and inquisitive state of mind, and be ready to learn.

In addition, I think that uniforms or standardized attire will act to enhance the cohesiveness of the school community, and frankly, give people one less reason to pick on someone.

I'll accept that theory, but think about the message uniforms send. It's not just putting on "certain" attire as part of a mental ritual, it's about putting on attire that was chosen for you, and that you have virtually no say in. While I personally don't find particular clothes all that necessary to my mental preparation, I can understand the concept of putting on attire to get into a particular state on mind.

What is left unsaid, however, is what state of mind that attire brings. There is nothing wrong with the idea of a child having special school clothes, in fact I'd encourage that sort of thing for exactly the reasons you stated. But making the choice of what to wear for them, and making them wear something virtually identical to what everyone else is wearing, sends exactly the wrong message to foster a good learning environment, which is the opposite of what we are going for. It suggests that learning isn't so much about what the student wants as what everyone else wants the student to do.

The little mental preparation techniques often work well because they are personal, attempting to force everyone to follow the SAME path will probably have the opposite affect. I like to get ready for work by getting up and eating a quick breakfast while reading Slashdot, AT, and Google News. I then take a long, hot shower to really get me fully awake. I dress in my work clothes (defined as clothes that look reasonably clean). Then I drive to work, listening to techno to get me pumped up and ready to go. This works for me, but it would be stupid to try to make it work for anybody else. There is nothing wrong with mental rituals, we all have them, but by far the most effective way to use them is to allow kids to come up with their own, regarding their attire and everything else.

Of course I'm assuming that you and I are on the same page when it comes to what's most important about education. I personally think teaching kids to think critically, and independently, is FAR, FAR more important than whatever piece of useless knowledge you happen to be talking to them about. If your goal is to develop students as students first, and individuals second, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

I've never read so much bullcrap in my life!

I've never seen so much individual motivation and achievement as I did the 7 years I attended private middle and high school. Kids quit competing on clothing and focus that energy in competing in academics.

Umm, I never "competed" on clothing.. I wore what I always wore... Only a complete and utter loser would "compete" over clothing...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I was a nothing until I put on a uniform and afterward, well afterward I was still a nothing.

An astute observation.

And one you will never understand.

I have no desire to resign myself to babbling incoherently about the ultimate truth of the universe, while my life passes me by.

This "truth" that you either seek, or have accepted as impossible to discover, is actually quite simple - it is merely the drive to act.

The drive to act, eh? Hum! I do have a wind up soldier that is very proud of it's spring.
Feel free to continue pondering the meaning of nothingness... but know that it's not some great unknown that you're exploring, it's only your own apathy and idleness.

Please cease hijacking my thread or I will refer this to a moderator.

Says the person who first launched ad hominems in this thread.

 

[Legend]

School uniforms are worthless.

What our education system needs most is for students to want to learn.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I spent grades 1,2,6-12 in private school and grades 3-5 in public school. I've seen first hand the benefits, the calming effect that uniforms have. I am 100% for them.

Make them simple. Make them cheap. And enforce them.

Makes boys and girls wear a certain brand/style of blue jeans. Same for the shirt. Same for the tennis shoes. Also have a standard cold-weather coat as well.

Are you sure the differences you saw had nothing at all to do with how the students were raised, beyond the school? If parents aren't going to raise kids to learn (not necessarily be schooled easily), I don't see how a uniform is going to miraculously change them into ones that do. If so, how do you explain the kids in unforms acting just like those not in them?

 

[daniel49]

I was leaning towards school uniforms till I read aclu was against it.
Now I am wholly on board

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: robphelan
i support uniforms in school.

i went to an inner city school - a third of it was a magnet school which I was a student.

we didn't have much money by any means (maybe very low middle class). it was very evident by the clothes I wore, that my family had more than most of theirs.

it does build up resentment.

Man, that's the opposite here. In schools with uniforms, the kids try to show off their wealth in other ways. Expensive backpacks, shoes, socks... and on casual fridays, the kids would go shopping the night before just to buy clothes for the next day that they could show off with. But these are Catholic schools, so i'm not surprised that they rebel.

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I spent grades 1,2,6-12 in private school and grades 3-5 in public school. I've seen first hand the benefits, the calming effect that uniforms have. I am 100% for them.

Make them simple. Make them cheap. And enforce them.

Makes boys and girls wear a certain brand/style of blue jeans. Same for the shirt. Same for the tennis shoes. Also have a standard cold-weather coat as well.

Are you sure the differences you saw had nothing at all to do with how the students were raised, beyond the school? If parents aren't going to raise kids to learn (not necessarily be schooled easily), I don't see how a uniform is going to miraculously change them into ones that do. If so, how do you explain the kids in unforms acting just like those not in them?

Exactly. The public High School that I went to outranks most of the private schools in my state. Why? Because it's a very affluent suburb, and the students wanted to learn because their parents raised them that way.

 

[Moonbeam]

No society wants people who can think especially a society that thinks it wants people who can think. Thinkers have special names in all societies. They are called fools. Of course, to think, on needs to be able to feel. Did you learn to feel?

Oh wait, feeling is for girls.

When the ignorant become teachers education becomes a joke. For fools the fix for a joke is a tome of humor.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
No society wants people who can think especially a society that thinks it wants people who can think. Thinkers have special names in all societies. They are called fools.

Is that so? Care to elaborate and demonstrate how this is reality? I have a feeling your explanation would be rife with tautologies though, hardly worth my time reading it.

Of course, to think, on needs to be able to feel. Did you learn to feel?

Nope, see above please.

Oh wait, feeling is for girls.

Yeah, pretty much. Well not really, but combining feeling and thinking is for girls.

When the ignorant become teachers education becomes a joke. For fools the fix for a joke is a tome of humor.

Cool, I guess you're right there.

 

[TheSlamma]

Germany was big on uniforms too, got them good and ready for the Nazi party

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Germany was big on uniforms too, got them good and ready for the Nazi party

I invoke Godwin's law. Does that mean the thread is over? Or was it over when I was first called a fascist on the first or second page.

Somehow you're assuming that wearing same/similar clothing will make you/your children alike with others. Is that because you think that clothes are the only thing that differentiates you/them from others? Frankly, I am tired of these half-assed comparisons, given that they have no real basis in reality. If your child will start thinking alike with others when he wears the same clothing, perhaps school uniforms are not your biggest problem.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Germany was big on uniforms too, got them good and ready for the Nazi party

Does that mean the thread is over? Or was it over when I was first called a fascist.

Somehow you're assuming that wearing same/similar clothing will make you/your children alike with others. Is that because you think that clothes are the only thing that differentiates you/them from others? Frankly, I am tired of these half-assed comparisons, given that they have no real basis in reality. If your child will start thinking alike with others when he wears the same clothing, perhaps school uniforms are not your biggest problem.

Meuge you're cool dude.

You're real, tasted success and I know you are not an asshole.