School cop throws high school girl to ground

[HamburgerBoy]

No one would be arguing that and you know it. The guy was a friggen bodybuilder so he could have easily pulled her and the desk out of the room. IF somehow, some crazy way, she was injured by the cop pulling the desk I would say that he showed proper restraint and managed the situation the best way possible for everyone involved. I would never call moving the desk of a kid who refuses to get out of her desk excessive. Once in the hallway he had plenty of time to reason with her and she wouldn't have much of a reason to stay in the desk. He also wouldn't be disrupting the class with violence.

HE DID TRY THAT. He tries scooting the two of them together. The chair/desk pops up multiple times before she hits him. THEN he flips the chair/desk. You guys are all suggesting solutions that were already tried. Apparently children should just be able to walk all over the class.

 

[OCNewbie]

Reverse neck hold and throwing chair you are seated in to the ground backwards. The natural reaction is to throw your arms up to defend your fall. He sees what he wants to see which is a menacing punch! W/E

It's not a punch (closed fist), but she does attempt to slap him, at least twice, and hits him on the right side of his face once, then seems to barely hit him a time or two on his shoulder.

Watch the third video on this page ("A third video, from yet another angle"). It all happens within the first 2 seconds.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/ben-f...odybuilder-cop-student-desk-video-complaints/

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I think his hand was actually on her left pant leg (which happened to be under the desk).

He's talking about his right arm/hand, which does wrap around her back and neck, hand near or covering her mouth. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as he wasn't suffocating her, which seems very unlikely.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You throw a lot of no-look punches? How does that usually work out on an effectiveness scale?

What's your point? That she didn't see where she was throwing that hit, therefore it must have been an accident, therefore he shouldn't have flipped the desk?

 

[OCNewbie]

All student desks should be bolted to the floor, from here on out, to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

 

[jackstar7]

What's your point? That she didn't see where she was throwing that hit, therefore it must have been an accident, therefore he shouldn't have flipped the desk?

No. That the 'punch' will have almost no force behind it due to the angle and lack of focus on any kind of target. It is flailing.

 

[OCNewbie]

Sort of reminds of this incident, except I never heard about this on the national news, for some odd reason:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqdWqMyNyNo

Yeah, for some odd reason *wink*wink*

 

[OCNewbie]

No. That the 'punch' will have almost no force behind it due to the angle and lack of focus on any kind of target. It is flailing.

Flailing with the intent to hit?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No. That the 'punch' will have almost no force behind it due to the angle and lack of focus on any kind of target. It is flailing.

Lack of focus is an assumption, and I'd argue a bad one since the target was obviously the cop. Lack of force is probably a slightly better assumption (she's clearly much weaker than him), but from the angle you can't say it was just a light swipe. In frame 6 I posted, showing her hand making direct contact with his right jaw, her arm is quite extended. Not fully, but since she managed to cock it back in the first frame, I'd imagine it was enough to elicit a reflexive response of "Hey, I'm being assaulted" by the cop. If frame 5 does indeed show his face's skin/fat vibrating from the impact of the force as it appears to be, then it was clearly a real strike.

 

[Spungo]

I'd fire the cop too...but only to make sure the issue dies and people don't fan the racism flames. Or the police brutality flames for that matter

This. Remember Rodney King? He kept getting up to attack police after being knocked down repeatedly. Eventually they got him down and beat the shit out of him so he couldn't get up again. The jury came to the conclusion that beating the shit out of him was the correct thing to do in those circumstances. People flipped the fuck out. Riots. Business owners protecting their buildings with guns. Sometimes it's easier to just fire people.

Also, remember Michael Brown? The CSI team came to the conclusion that Brown was charging the police officer when he was shot and killed. The investigation concluded that the police officer did nothing wrong, and people freaked out. Riots, "black lives matter", etc.

 

[Darwin333]

When does he "slam" her? His hand appears higher than her neck; in the first frame posted it is clearly near (potentially covering) her mouth.

So your counter argument, which is bull there are plenty of stills with his hand clearly around her neck, is that he was suffocating her?

 

[Indus]

Ever wonder why we're taxed so much? This is why.. these things require settlements.

I wonder if there will be civil rights charges and of course how much the money settlement for this unnecessary roughness/ excessive force.

 

[Darwin333]

HE DID TRY THAT. He tries scooting the two of them together. The chair/desk pops up multiple times before she hits him. THEN he flips the chair/desk. You guys are all suggesting solutions that were already tried. Apparently children should just be able to walk all over the class.

Why the hell would he try to move the entire desk from the side with one hand around her neck and his other hand on her leg which is under the desk? He never had to touch the girl. Grab the front or the back of the desk and pull. It really is that simple and he not once attempted that unless you are saying that he was trying to move the desk by pulling her face/neck/head. If that is the case he's a fucking idiot and should be fired just for being a fucking idiot.

I don't recall seeing this argument being made until very recently in the thread, I could be wrong and if I am I'll apologize, but it seems like people are backtracking now.

 

[Vic]

It is possible to have a situation where multiple parties are in the wrong. Just because the girl was being disruptive did not give the officer carte blanche to use violent force. And just because the officer violated his departmental policy does not condone the girl's disruptive behavior (or excuse her from punishment).
I know that this kind of critical thinking is difficult for some, but just because you can't or won't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The big difference here though is that she's just a little girl, and he was supposed to be the adult and trained professional.

 

[Spungo]

So your counter argument, which is bull there are plenty of stills with his hand clearly around her neck, is that he was suffocating her?

Suffocating is what unskilled grapplers do. It's what killed that big black guy who was attacked by 3 cops a few months ago. When done properly, the choke is supposed to stop blood from flowing. The person will immediately blackout.

It doesn't look like that's what he was going for. The neck was just the most obvious thing to grab. He's muscling her around, but that's not a choke. Let's at least be honest about what's going on.

 

[Darwin333]

It is possible to have a situation where multiple parties are in the wrong. Just because the girl was being disruptive did not give the officer carte blanche to use violent force. And just because the officer violated his departmental policy does not condone the girl's disruptive behavior (or excuse her from punishment).
I know that this kind of critical thinking is difficult for some, but just because you can't or won't understand it means it doesn't exist.

The child should definitely receive the appropriate punishment for what she did, no more and no less. I'm not sure if refusing to get out of your chair is grounds for expulsion, especially given the background circumstances of her recently being orphaned, but I wouldn't have a problem if the school decided it appropriate. She is being criminally charged, as per SC law. I was never arguing that she shouldn't face the consequences of her actions. I was, and am, arguing that both of them should face the consequences of their actions.

 

[DrDoug]

No. That the 'punch' will have almost no force behind it due to the angle and lack of focus on any kind of target. It is flailing.

But you're wrong! She was sitting there like a coiled spring, waiting for that cop to come close enough for her to slap him.

His boss said he fucked up and fired him. You would think that would be the end of it except for the idiots who are still grasping at anything to excuse his behavior. He was taking her down and anything she did was a reaction to that. I wonder how the optics of this would be for the same idiots who are excusing this if it was a big burly black cop taking down a little white girl. I'm sure some of them would say that was fine and fair but we all know that would be bullshit. There was no racism in what he did but there are plenty of racists who are enjoying and excusing what he did to her.

The cop blew it, his boss hates the law that put him in the school and he got fired.

 

[KK]

Of course there is no outrage about this. No thread posted by cop haters on these boards. It is cool to hate the cops, not the other way around. Interested to hear the cop haters reaction to this, but I suppose it will be the cops fault, administrators fault, etc. Never, ever the students fault. Certainly the school should have handled it better!

Video posted on youtube to be the cool kids. Defying authority is exactly what this teaches. If you don't think the cop there had it in the back of his mind what happened with this case, you're delusional.

No, that punk should have been executed, either that or beat so badly he drinks out of a straw for the rest of his life.

 

[Darwin333]

Suffocating is what unskilled grapplers do. It's what killed that big black guy who was attacked by 3 cops a few months ago. When done properly, the choke is supposed to stop blood from flowing. The person will immediately blackout.

It doesn't look like that's what he was going for. The neck was just the most obvious thing to grab. He's muscling her around, but that's not a choke. Let's at least be honest about what's going on.

Oh I agree that it doesn't appear that he was trying to choke her, I was simply responding to the idiot. If his hand was in fact over her mouth as he was contending and she couldn't breath it's just another reason for the natural response of flailing around. I don't think that's the case though, I think she was flailing because she was being flipped over. He was pulling back on her neck/face and up with her leg, you know damn well you are going for a ride. I didn't once see him try to pull her towards him.

Again, this guy is a bodybuilder against a small girl. If he was trying to forcefully remove her from her desk he could have grabbed her under the armpit with one arm, put his hand on the desk with the other, and easily removed her from the chair. She can hold on all she wants but he would have easily overpowered her and if she somehow got injured from her holding onto the desk I'd say it was her own fault.

 

[OrByte]

After his verbal order, and her non-compliance, he has the right to physically arrest and restrain her and force her to comply

He has the right to put his hands on her and remove her from the room, He doesn't NEED to handle the desk, he needs to evaluate and determine the course of action that gets her safely out of the room. He chose to attempt to separate her from the desk. I don't think you will see any "excessive force" claim in that action

And then she punched him. And then he pulled her away from the desk and tossed her to the ground. The toss is what was considered "excessive" from the eyes of his supervising officer, and that is what got him fired.

"What he should not have done is throw the student," Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said. "Police officers make mistakes too. They're human and they need to be held accountable, and that's what we've done with Deputy Ben Fields."

"When you make an arrest of someone who does not have a weapon, you never let go of the subject. When he threw her across the room, he let go of her. That's what violates our policy," Lott said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...icer-tosses-student-video-20151028-story.html

I wish he would have staggered back from the punch and pull out his taser and took her down that way...then we could have had a whole different and interesting conversation!! 🙂

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So your counter argument, which is bull there are plenty of stills with his hand clearly around her neck, is that he was suffocating her?

My argument is having his arm around her neck was likely not extreme enough to warrant throwing punches. She was being restrained. You have to touch her in some way to restrain her.

Oh I agree that it doesn't appear that he was trying to choke her, I was simply responding to the idiot. If his hand was in fact over her mouth as he was contending and she couldn't breath it's just another reason for the natural response of flailing around. I don't think that's the case though, I think she was flailing because she was being flipped over. He was pulling back on her neck/face and up with her leg, you know damn well you are going for a ride. I didn't once see him try to pull her towards him.

Again, this guy is a bodybuilder against a small girl. If he was trying to forcefully remove her from her desk he could have grabbed her under the armpit with one arm, put his hand on the desk with the other, and easily removed her from the chair. She can hold on all she wants but he would have easily overpowered her and if she somehow got injured from her holding onto the desk I'd say it was her own fault.

For the nth time, SHE HADN'T BEEN FLIPPED OVER YET WHEN SHE THREW THE HIT. It could not be a response to being flipped over because that hadn't happened yet, which is clearly obvious when looking at the stills where she has made contact with his face with her hand, and the desk is arched by only a few degrees max.

 

[dmcowen674]

It's amazing how much rationalizing is going on here by some people trying to justify this cop's actions.

Things like this show just how whacked a majority of the posters on here are.

Scary that they roam free in Society.

 

[michal1980]

I and others are still waiting for the proper solution your side has for removing a kid from the classroom.

Saying 'you don't remove them' is not answering the question.

Like I posted before, If they drag her out with the desk, and she once again resists, and now gets injured because of the desk, you would be saying its better to remove them from the desk first, and the cop was stupid not to have done that.

Having to use force on a person refusing to move, will almost always look violent.

You're not waiting. You were given a perfectly reasonable answer and you hand waved it away. That's your fault.

still refusing to answer.

How simple do I have to make it for you.

If you have to remove a student that refuses to what do you do?

or should I answer for you

let her sit there

So you are letting the kids dictate to adults how classrooms should be run, and telling adults that really, the kids are in charge and adults cant do shit to kids that dont listen.

 

[michal1980]

No one would be arguing that and you know it. The guy was a friggen bodybuilder so he could have easily pulled her and the desk out of the room. IF somehow, some crazy way, she was injured by the cop pulling the desk I would say that he showed proper restraint and managed the situation the best way possible for everyone involved. I would never call moving the desk of a kid who refuses to get out of her desk excessive. Once in the hallway he had plenty of time to reason with her and she wouldn't have much of a reason to stay in the desk. He also wouldn't be disrupting the class with violence.

Yes they would.

This is the same situation and you are arguing it. He tried to remove her, she resisted which caused the desk to flip, while flipping she hit him, which then made him pull her from the desk she was still in, and arresting her.

If she didnt resist, this wouldn't have happened now would it?

 

[Wreckem]

An Officer isn't trained (nor is it their job) to "Play nice" like you are CLEARLY stating here. Get bent.

The teacher is the one who plays nice. When you call the authority figure, that is a CLUE that force is necessary, and you will be forced by any means. It's not play time anymore. It's not time to drag them in a desk or consult them and their feelings. They had that chance BEFORE the officer was called.

You millennial yuppies make me sick.

SRO's have additional training. So yes they are trained to work in an environment with children and how to handle children.

That said, a teacher having to call and SRO to deal with a cellphone issue is a failure of a teacher.