School Board Passes Rule To Block Pagan Club

[Nitemare]

I wonder when they will be either banning the FCA or allowing the Goat & small animal Sacrificer club

 

[Phoenix86]

Paganism is an nationally registered religion, iirc, what religion is associated with "the Goat & small animal Sacrificer club?"

 

[Jzero]

THe problem is that they seemed to have cooked up these requirements in response to her wanting to start this club.
If this rule had always been in place, she would have no excuse.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Jzero
THe problem is that they seemed to have cooked up these requirements in response to her wanting to start this club.
If this rule had always been in place, she would have no excuse.

Yep, I'm surprised the school doesn't have a policy on the books about forming new clubs. It doesn't take a genius to realize that having such a policy in place would eliminate a lot of potential problems down the road. The simplest policy: If you want to have a club, you need a teacher or other staff member as an advisor.

Students just came to me, with a request that I be an advisor for a chess club... they just wanted to meet after school to play some games and needed a place to be with adult supervision. I told them I'd get back to them, double-checked with the principal, double-checked with the union president (to make sure I wasn't stepping on someone's toes such as if, for example, someone had been getting paid for extracurricular time in the past for such an event). Everyone told me it was fine, so I returned to the students and said "it's a go, I'd be happy to be your advisor."

Now, if someone had come to me with legitimate concerns such as "didn't you know there's a strong correlation between chess clubs and goat slayings?" then I'd have returned to the students with an "I can't. You'll have to find someone else."

Nonetheless, the previous little paragraph is meant as a joke. I really don't have any concerns with people who practice paganism. I think some of you, and possibly the school district in question, are confusing it with satanism. I'm far from an expert on paganism, but I thought the beliefs were somewhat similar to the older Indian beliefs of "mother earth." and treating nature with more respect. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[datalink7]

Good.

She can have her own Pagan club if she wants. But I'm for seperation of religion from schools and government. Therefore, I don't think the school should sponsor a club that is religious in nature, be it Pagan, Christian, or whatever.

 

[DrPizza]

You know... I think the "separation of church and state" is the amendment that it most mis-interpretted from what I believe the original meaning was.

I grabbed this from a site... I stumbled across it while looking for a copy of the 1st amendment:

Anytime religion is mentioned within the confines of government today people cry, "Separation of Church and State". Many people think this statement appears in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution and therefore must be strictly enforced. However, the words: "separation", "church", and "state" do not even appear in the first amendment. The first amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The statement about a wall of separation between church and state was made in a letter on January 1, 1802, by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. The congregation heard a widespread rumor that the Congregationalists, another denomination, were to become the national religion. This was very alarming to people who knew about religious persecution in England by the state established church. Jefferson made it clear in his letter to the Danbury Congregation that the separation was to be that government would not establish a national religion or dictate to men how to worship God. Jefferson's letter from which the phrase "separation of church and state" was taken affirmed first amendment rights. Jefferson wrote:

I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. (1)
The reason Jefferson choose the expression "separation of church and state" was because he was addressing a Baptist congregation; a denomination of which he was not a member. Jefferson wanted to remove all fears that the state would make dictates to the church. He was establishing common ground with the Baptists by borrowing the words of Roger Williams, one of the Baptist's own prominent preachers. Williams had said:
When they have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the Church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself, removed the candlestick, and made his garden a wilderness, as at this day. And that there fore if He will eer please to restore His garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world...(2)

The "wall" was understood as one-directional; its purpose was to protect the church from the state. The world was not to corrupt the church, yet the church was free to teach the people Biblical values.

The American people knew what would happen if the State established the Church like in England. Even though it was not recent history to them, they knew that England went so far as forbidding worship in private homes and sponsoring all church activities and keeping people under strict dictates. They were forced to go to the state established church and do things that were contrary to their conscience. No other churches were allowed, and mandatory attendance of the established church was compelled under the Conventicle Act of 1665. Failure to comply would result in imprisonment and torture. The people did not want freedom from religion, but freedom of religion.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: mugs
I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.

the contreversy comes from the superintendent saying no, not from the girl starting the club

I guess if you're that naive.

if the guy didn't say no, the aclu wouldn't be involved, there would be no press and we wouldnt be discussing it on atot.

And if she hadn't tried to set up the club, the superintendant wouldn't have said no... my point is that in all likelyhood she couldn't care less if she started a pagan club at her school, there probably wouldn't be anyone else in it anyway, not may people claim to be "pagans." As others have mentioned, her parents probably put her up to it, knowing what would happen, to create this controversy. Note that they also complained that she had to say the pledge of allegiance (not sure why she can't just say "under gods" instead of "under God"). People have this need to feel persecuted for some reason.

There's most likely far more pagans than you're aware of. Due to the current ignorance in the general public about paganism, people don't exactly walk around introducing themselves as pagan. Some do, sure, but definitely not all.
And I'm not sure why "under god" needs to be in a pledge of allegiance at all. That way no one is excluded, and it's more like it's original form.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
You know... I think the "separation of church and state" is the amendment that it most mis-interpretted from what I believe the original meaning was.

I grabbed this from a site... I stumbled across it while looking for a copy of the 1st amendment:

Anytime religion is mentioned within the confines of government today people cry, "Separation of Church and State". Many people think this statement appears in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution and therefore must be strictly enforced. However, the words: "separation", "church", and "state" do not even appear in the first amendment. The first amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The statement about a wall of separation between church and state was made in a letter on January 1, 1802, by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. The congregation heard a widespread rumor that the Congregationalists, another denomination, were to become the national religion. This was very alarming to people who knew about religious persecution in England by the state established church. Jefferson made it clear in his letter to the Danbury Congregation that the separation was to be that government would not establish a national religion or dictate to men how to worship God. Jefferson's letter from which the phrase "separation of church and state" was taken affirmed first amendment rights. Jefferson wrote:

I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. (1)
The reason Jefferson choose the expression "separation of church and state" was because he was addressing a Baptist congregation; a denomination of which he was not a member. Jefferson wanted to remove all fears that the state would make dictates to the church. He was establishing common ground with the Baptists by borrowing the words of Roger Williams, one of the Baptist's own prominent preachers. Williams had said:
When they have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the Church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself, removed the candlestick, and made his garden a wilderness, as at this day. And that there fore if He will eer please to restore His garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world...(2)

The "wall" was understood as one-directional; its purpose was to protect the church from the state. The world was not to corrupt the church, yet the church was free to teach the people Biblical values.

The American people knew what would happen if the State established the Church like in England. Even though it was not recent history to them, they knew that England went so far as forbidding worship in private homes and sponsoring all church activities and keeping people under strict dictates. They were forced to go to the state established church and do things that were contrary to their conscience. No other churches were allowed, and mandatory attendance of the established church was compelled under the Conventicle Act of 1665. Failure to comply would result in imprisonment and torture. The people did not want freedom from religion, but freedom of religion.

I don't know if you were refering to me or not, but if you were, I wasn't mis-interpretting anything because I wasn't interpreting anything. Whether it is in the constitution or not, I strongly believe in the seperation of church and state.

 

[DrPizza]

Nope, wasn't referring to you specifically. I just find it ridiculous the extent to which people push the separation part of it. The 1st amendment is supposed to give you the freedom to worship as you please. These days, people are using the 1st amendment to restrict other's rights to worship as they please... if some people want to say a prayer before a football game, so be it. IMHO, you're really stretching it to say your 1st amendment rights were trampled on because someone else said a prayer in front of you.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: datalink7
Good.

She can have her own Pagan club if she wants. But I'm for seperation of religion from schools and government. Therefore, I don't think the school should sponsor a club that is religious in nature, be it Pagan, Christian, or whatever.

The Fellowship of Christian Athletes is in most schools.

Since when is paganism a nationally registered religion? How can someone lump a large diverse group of many types of religious belief into one registered religion?