School Board Passes Rule To Block Pagan Club

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Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
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School Board Passes Rule To Block Pagan Club

CRESTVIEW, Fla. -- The Okaloosa County School Board passed a rule to prevent a 12-year-old girl from forming a pagan club at her school.

The board passed a requirement that clubs have at least five members and a faculty sponsor after the girl's mother, Stephney Aigret, had approached officials at Max Bruner Jr. Middle School in Fort Walton Beach.

"She doesn't have enough people to start her club," Aigret told the board during an hour-long debate Monday. "So this, in my opinion, is just one way the government can shut down undesirable clubs."

American Civil Liberties Union members also argued the rule would violate the girl's rights and federal laws on equal access. "We can beat this to death, but I personally think the policy is more than adequate to protect students' rights," board member Rodney Walker said.

The girl had asked about forming a club based on her pagan beliefs because the school had Christian clubs, her mother said. Bruner officials, however, told her she would have to gather 200 signatures to form such a club.

When the Aigrets complained to district officials, school Superintendent Don Gaetz proposed the districtwide policy with a five-student minimum. The Aigrets and ACLU say any numerical limit violates federal law.

School district lawyer Jeff McInnis said the law does not bar schools from setting rules regarding meetings on school property and the formation of groups or clubs.

The girl's father, Marcel Aigret, said the family may pursue the issue further.

Two years ago, the board also rebuffed the Aigrets' request to remove the Pledge of Allegiance from classrooms. They contended the phrase "under God" violates the separation of church and state doctrine of the First Amendment.



Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
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Sounds like another family using their child as a means of pushing their idealogical agenda on the rest of society.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
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81
Yep, like the case that made it to the supreme court for 'under god.' That guy didn't even have custodial rights over his child either, did he...? :roll:

Doesn't a club by definition have to have members, plural, so at least two.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=club
A group of people organized for a common purpose, especially a group that meets regularly:

I wonder if they all got clubs to get 5 signatures...
 

Shelly21

Diamond Member
May 28, 2002
4,111
1
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Nothing wrong with having a pagan club by youself. The school should've allowed it and make this a non-issue and this wouldn't even make it to the news.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
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Originally posted by: MacBaine
Sounds like another family using their child as a means of pushing their idealogical agenda on the rest of society.

word im sure a 12 year old girl has a lot of pagan believes
 

TheBDB

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2002
3,176
0
0
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Sounds like another family using their child as a means of pushing their idealogical agenda on the rest of society.

word im sure a 12 year old girl has a lot of pagan believes

What about the 12 year olds that are in a Christian club. Are they brainwashed by their parents too? :roll:
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
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Originally posted by: TheBDB
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Sounds like another family using their child as a means of pushing their idealogical agenda on the rest of society.

word im sure a 12 year old girl has a lot of pagan believes

What about the 12 year olds that are in a Christian club. Are they brainwashed by their parents too? :roll:

Yes.
 

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
7,735
0
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i'm guessing she doesn't actually worship the Greco-Roman gods/goddesses.

paganism just ain't what it used to be...
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
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They should not have religious clubs at the school. If they allow Xian club, they should allow other clubs too.
What if there are only 4 Jews at the school who want to start a Judaism club? Will the school ban them?
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
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Originally posted by: Shelly21
Nothing wrong with having a pagan club by youself. The school should've allowed it and make this a non-issue and this wouldn't even make it to the news.

No, that would be a pagan individual. Also, individuals don't need meeting places, which is the prescribed use for public facilities, and why it's not against church/state seperation.

The school isn't (supposed to) support religion, just using otherwise non-used public facilites.

I agree the 5 person thing is a cop-out, but so is trying to make a club for one person...

What part of club means single person?

"A group of people (plural) organized for a common purpose, especially a group that meets regularly: a garden club."
 

flxnimprtmscl

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2003
7,962
2
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Originally posted by: Shelly21
Nothing wrong with having a pagan club by youself.

Are you at all familiar with the definition of club? If you talk to yourself do you think that means you're having a conversation too?
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
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Originally posted by: TheBDB
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Sounds like another family using their child as a means of pushing their idealogical agenda on the rest of society.

word im sure a 12 year old girl has a lot of pagan believes

What about the 12 year olds that are in a Christian club. Are they brainwashed by their parents too? :roll:

absolutely.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
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Originally posted by: mugs
I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.

the contreversy comes from the superintendent saying no, not from the girl starting the club
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.

the contreversy comes from the superintendent saying no, not from the girl starting the club

I guess if you're that naive.
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
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Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.

the contreversy comes from the superintendent saying no, not from the girl starting the club

I'd put money on the fact that her parents put her up to it, hoping they would reject it.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
0
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.

the contreversy comes from the superintendent saying no, not from the girl starting the club

I guess if you're that naive.

if the guy didn't say no, the aclu wouldn't be involved, there would be no press and we wouldnt be discussing it on atot.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.

the contreversy comes from the superintendent saying no, not from the girl starting the club

well, what isn't explained is what the school said "no" to...I mean, I doubt she went up to them and said, "I'd like to form a club, we won't do anything on school property, we don't want to put up posters, and we don't want school funding".

I'm willing to bet she was asking for one of those things...at which point the school said that it was ridiculous.

Heck, if I could have gotten away with that stuff in high school I would have formed a "jagec club" and gotten school funding :)
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.

the contreversy comes from the superintendent saying no, not from the girl starting the club

I guess if you're that naive.

if the guy didn't say no, the aclu wouldn't be involved, there would be no press and we wouldnt be discussing it on atot.

And if she hadn't tried to set up the club, the superintendant wouldn't have said no... my point is that in all likelyhood she couldn't care less if she started a pagan club at her school, there probably wouldn't be anyone else in it anyway, not may people claim to be "pagans." As others have mentioned, her parents probably put her up to it, knowing what would happen, to create this controversy. Note that they also complained that she had to say the pledge of allegiance (not sure why she can't just say "under gods" instead of "under God"). People have this need to feel persecuted for some reason.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Sounds like another family using their child as a means of pushing their idealogical agenda on the rest of society.

I tend to agree. However, IF there are christian or other religious clubs that are allowed/sanctioned by the school, and IF she is really interested in starting a pagan club (for the purpose of studying and celebrating pagan religious concepts), THEN I am totally ok with it.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: mugs
I'm all for equal rights, but it gets old when people do stuff like this just for the sake of causing controversy. Them and the ones who start "whites only" scholarships, or have bake sales where different races pay different amounts for their cookies... bunch of whiners.

the contreversy comes from the superintendent saying no, not from the girl starting the club

I guess if you're that naive.

if the guy didn't say no, the aclu wouldn't be involved, there would be no press and we wouldnt be discussing it on atot.

Did you even read my post? Club != single person. Meetings cannot happen between one person, no more than a conversation, unless of course you have psychological issues...

well, what isn't explained is what the school said "no" to...I mean, I doubt she went up to them and said, "I'd like to form a club, we won't do anything on school property, we don't want to put up posters, and we don't want school funding".
All a club can get is meeting space, nothing else, iirc. That's why there is not separation of church/state arguments, and why they can have Christian clubs. All the school is providing is meeting space, space that would otherwise be unused (after school hours). She was likely just applying for a club, which includes meeting space, and was told no.