Scenario from a "P&N resident troll" style playbook - Romney & Biden

[EagleKeeper]

It is possible that this election could result in a President Romney and a Vice President Biden.
...
If there is a tie in the electoral college (and, as I explain below, there could be), it will be up to the newly elected House of Representatives to elect a President and the newly elected Senate to elect the Vice President.

The rules are all outlined in the 12th Amendment to Constitution. Here's how it would work:
1) In the House vote for President, each state delegation gets a single vote. So California, with 53 Representatives (majority of them Democrats), would likely cast its single vote for Obama. South Dakota with just one Representative (Republican), would get equal weight and likely cast its vote for Romney, and so on.
All told, in the current House, Republicans have majority control of 33 state delegations; Democrats control 14 and 3 are evenly divided. Even if the Democrats win control of the House, the Republicans would almost certainly still control a majority of the state delegations. Bottom line: Romney wins.
2) In the Senate vote for Vice President, each Senator gets a single vote. If Democrats keep control of the Senate, Biden would likely win (unless somebody crosses party lines).


If the new Senate is divided 50-50 (a plausible outcome), the sitting Vice President would cast the tie-breaking vote. That sitting vice President: Joe Biden. Yes, Joe Biden would be the deciding vote in re-electing Vice President Joe Biden. Bottom line: If Democrats keep control of the Senate, Biden likely wins.

Talk about some pissed off people
Little guys standing up to the big states (as intended by the framers of the Constitution) :thumbsup:

There are a number of plausible scenarios which could result in a 269-269 electoral tie.
Here's just one: Obama wins OH, WI, NH. Romney wins FL, VA, NC, IA, CO, NV (and all other states go as expected).
Result: a 269-269 tie.

Link

 

[cybrsage]

I personally think the winner of the election should be president and the runner up should be Vice President. This would force the parties to work together to prevent damaging their own candidate.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Imagine an electoral college tie where Obama wins the popular vote ala 2000 election and the Senate appoints Romney President.

Now THAT would be fun!

 

[PokerGuy]

Not a very likely scenario, but certainly a very interesting one. That would be great

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I personally think the winner of the election should be president and the runner up should be Vice President. This would force the parties to work together to prevent damaging their own candidate.

That's how it used to work. They changed it for a reason.

In the current political environment I would be very scared for the president in such a scenario.

 

[cybrsage]

That's how it used to work. They changed it for a reason.

Politics became more partisan, which is why they changed it. Going back to the better way is what we should do.

In the current political environment I would be very scared for the president in such a scenario.

You think the VP would assassinate him?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Imagine an electoral college tie where Obama wins the popular vote ala 2000 election and the Senate appoints Romney President.

Now THAT would be fun!

Violates the Constitution/12th:\

 

[EagleKeeper]

You think the VP would assassinate him?

Some kook might.

Then the old VP becomes a target. See Ford

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Politics became more partisan, which is why they changed it.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about (as usual). The 12th Amendment was passed only a few years after the Constitution was ratified, and it was done for two main reasons: the executive branch becoming ineffective due to two rivals being forced to work together; and the unsavory possibility I outlined previously.

 

[cybrsage]

You don't know what the hell you're talking about (as usual). The 12th Amendment was passed only a few years after the Constitution was ratified, and it was done for two main reasons: the executive branch becoming ineffective due to two rivals being forced to work together; and the unsavory possibility I outlined previously.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about (as usual). The Constitution was ratified in 1789 and the 12th Amendment was ratified in 1804. That is 15 years later. By then, partisanship had already reared its ugly head, as I stated. Even George Washington himself railed against Democrats as being a group whose goal was to destroy the nation...sound pretty partisan to me.

But hey, why let something like actual history get in the way of your revisionism, right?

 

[cybrsage]

Some kook might.

Then the old VP becomes a target. See Ford

True, but those kooks already exist.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

The proximate impetus of the development of the 12th was what happened in 1800. The intent of the amendment is as I stated prior.

 

[dmcowen674]

Scenario from a McOwen style playbook - Romney & Biden

Talk about some pissed off people
Little guys standing up to the big states (as intended by the framers of the Constitution) :thumbsup:


Link

But that wouldn't happen because despite the differences in Electoral votes both sides play the same way, 110% partisan.

 

[cybrsage]

The proximate impetus of the development of the 12th was what happened in 1800. The intent of the amendment is as I stated prior.

Come on, stop only telling half the truth. I understand you are doing it because your point fails if you tell the entire truth. I will help out and post it, though, since you will not:

12th Amendment Annotations
Election of President
This Amendment, 1 which supersedes clause 3 of Sec. 1 of Article II, was adopted so as to make impossible the situation occurring after the election of 1800 in which Jefferson and Burr received tie votes in the electoral college, thus throwing the selection of a President into the House of Representatives, despite the fact that the electors had intended Jefferson to be President and Burr to be Vice- President.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment12/

It has nothing to do with what you claimed (rivals, people hating each other, ineffectiveness) and everything to do with a tie in the electoral college.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Yes, of course. You said the 12th came about because "politics became more partisan". I'm sure politics changed dramatically in 13 years.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Here's a question for the libs. No troll intended. What if by some chance Romney wins the popular vote, but loses the electoral vote, giving Obama a second term? The reason I ask it that it's generally the liberals that advocate for a true democracy and that we should scrap the electoral college - at least it's the opinion I've gathered from reading political forums for the last 10 years or so.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The system only needs fixing when it goes against you; not for you.

 

[xBiffx]

I never imagined a scenario where Biden could become more useless. Thanks for that.

 

[jackstar7]

Here's a question for the libs. No troll intended. What if by some chance Romney wins the popular vote, but loses the electoral vote, giving Obama a second term? The reason I ask it that it's generally the liberals that advocate for a true democracy and that we should scrap the electoral college - at least it's the opinion I've gathered from reading political forums for the last 10 years or so.

There are about 13+ states that will never allow that change, so it's basically a moot point.

 

[nextJin]

Another absurdly rare scenario would be what happens if there is an attack and the POTUS goes into a coma and the VP passes away. The Speaker of the House steps up to the plate becoming the Acting POTUS and Congress approves a new officially declared VP then later the POTUS passes away.

Who becomes the POTUS?

 

[FerrelGeek]

There are about 13+ states that will never allow that change, so it's basically a moot point.

Not disagreeing with you. It's just that in the 2000 election, it created quite a fuss when Gore won the popular vote but lost in the electoral votes. I read a lot of vitriol about the electoral college and that it needed to be abolished. Just asking the hypothetical here.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Another absurdly rare scenario would be what happens if there is an attack and the POTUS goes into a coma and the VP passes away. The Speaker of the House steps up to the plate becoming the Acting POTUS and Congress approves a new officially declared VP then later the POTUS passes away.

Who becomes the POTUS?

The speaker of the house, the acting potus in your example.

 

[nextJin]

The speaker of the house, the acting potus in your example.

You sure?

 

[EagleKeeper]

VP always step up to the POTUS slot.
Speaker of the House steps up to be POTUS ONLY IF there is no viable VP and no viable POTUS

POTUS that move up, selects their VP w/ approval from the Senate.

 

[nextJin]

The Speaker would never be the President, he would only ever be the acting President. However the VP once approved would be a legitimate Vice President.

The question comes up when in the said scenario the POTUS finally passes away with an acting POTUS and legitimate VP approved by Congress.