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Scapegoat for black america before hiphop?

S

slackerinabox

Lifer
Was listening to some great hip hop (Lil Wayne mixtapes) on the way to work and had the weird thought- hip hop is the easiest way to criticize black america without coming off as racist... For example, gang violence, drugs, crime, etc. were not caused by hip hop and existed before the 80s, but its more PC to blame these things on a simple genre of music instead of really thinking of what the root cause is.

My question is - back in say the 60s and 70s, did white people with a chip on their shoulder about black america blame "disco culture?"

EDIT: P.S. I'm not black and love every genre of music.. Even country.. Hell, Blue Grass = awesome
 
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dwell said:
Was there ever mass media glorification of violence, drugs, crime, etc before Hip Hop?
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Most songs I've listened to from the 60s and 70s were about drugs, rampant sexuality, and sometimes subversive Satanism... And this is the stuff playing on classic rock FM!
 
I think it's actually the genre more than anything else. Not every song or artist, but a large enough segment of rap and hip-hop in the past was about not-so-subtly glorifying - or at least describing - gang life, drugs, sex, and violence.

Yes, criticizing hip-hop has been a scapegoat for some. Disco (and jazz before that) have been used, but they became mainstream music eventually, so the stigma has mostly disappeared. That's the way it is with sub-culture music that gains popularity and then changes when interacting with other forms and mainstream culture.

I don't think dislike of genres is strictly a racial thing, though. There was an outcry against rock even after it had become mostly white, and against metal and alternative rock in the 80s and early 90s.

There are valid criticisms of artists out of nearly every genre of music, but music itself doesn't cause anyone to become anything. Even the "worst" music simply has bad lyrics, and you can personally solve your aversion by not listening to that music.
 
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freedomsbeat212 said:
Was listening to some great hip hop (Lil Wayne mixtapes) on the way to work and had the weird thought- hip hop is the easiest way to criticize black america without coming off as racist... For example, gang violence, drugs, crime, etc. were not caused by hip hop and existed before the 80s, but its more PC to blame these things on a simple genre of music instead of really thinking of what the root cause is.

My question is - back in say the 60s and 70s, did white people with a chip on their shoulder about black america blame "disco culture?"

EDIT: P.S. I'm not black and love every genre of music.. Even country.. Hell, Blue Grass = awesome
Click to expand...


why did i always think you were black?!
 
Crono said:
I think it's actually the genre more than anything else. Not every song or artist, but a large enough segment of rap and hip-hop in the past was about not-so-subtly glorifying - or at least describing - gang life, drugs, sex, and violence.

Yes, criticizing hip-hop has been a scapegoat for some. Disco (and jazz before that) have been used, but they became mainstream music eventually, so the stigma has mostly disappeared. That's the way it is with sub-culture music that gains popularity and then changes when interacting with other forms and mainstream culture.
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As Chuck D called it, hip hop is ghetto CNN. I drive through the ghetto living in NYC and there are drug dealers, gangs, hookers - but was any of this CAUSED by hip hop? BUt it does exist, and it surely existed before RUN DMC.

eminem often says, hip hop isn't a problem in Harlem but in Boston, because parents are terrified that their kids will emulate the lifestyle, without the same context. You know, there's nothing more terrifying than a white kid speaking in a fake accent wearing baggie pants, at least to suburban parents.. But then, isn't that bad parenting and not the fault of what is essentially just a genre of music.

Were there pick up trucks, whiskey, and standing by your man before country music? Of course, because country music is ABOUT a lifestyle, not the cause of it.
 
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DougK62 said:
"great hip hop" = Lil Wayne?
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OH, I could be pretentious and talk about clouddead, anticon, def jux, and a bunch of underground labels/artists you've never heard of.. But I like Lil Wayne, his singles are made to (duh) be sickly catchy (that's why he has more money than you), but his mix tapes are good listens.
 
freedomsbeat212 said:
Most songs I've listened to from the 60s and 70s were about drugs, rampant sexuality, and sometimes subversive Satanism... And this is the stuff playing on classic rock FM!
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Satanism is a joke. Count the number of people who have been killed due to Satanism vs those killed because some stupid kid thought he was gangsta.

Rap is the real devils music, not metal.
 
dwell said:
Satanism is a joke. Count the number of people who have been killed due to Satanism vs those killed because some stupid kid thought he was gangsta.

Rap is the real devils music, not metal.
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Actually, I'd like you to count the number of people who have been killed due to stupid kids thinking they were "gangsta" (as inspired directly by the music), and not as symptoms of poverty (drug trade, etc) or personal stupidity.

Though, you're right, those kids in Columbine would still be alive if it wasn't for Marilyn Manson..
 
freedomsbeat212 said:
Though, you're right, those kids in Columbine would still be alive if it wasn't for Marilyn Manson..
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I don't know of any Marilyn Manson song that promotes kids to shooting up their school. I know a lot of rap songs that promote guns, violence, drugs, abuse of women, etc.
 
mainstream 'gangster' (i'm not spelling that shit with an 'a') rap isn't the cause of societal problems, but it certainly doesn't help. if you think there aren't legitimately people out there who think life is about shiny shit, shitty booze, and demoralizing women, you've been living in a box.
 
freedomsbeat212 said:
As Chuck D called it, hip hop is ghetto CNN. I drive through the ghetto living in NYC and there are drug dealers, gangs, hookers - but was any of this CAUSED by hip hop? BUt it does exist, and it surely existed before RUN DMC.

eminem often says, hip hop isn't a problem in Harlem but in Boston, because parents are terrified that their kids will emulate the lifestyle, without the same context. You know, there's nothing more terrifying than a white kid speaking in a fake accent wearing baggie pants, at least to suburban parents.. But then, isn't that bad parenting and not the fault of what is essentially just a genre of music.

Were there pick up trucks, whiskey, and standing by your man before country music?
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In the ghetto rap music isn't the cause behind while people act the way they act. Music doesn't make them rob and shoot shit up, the fact they have little money and often times no food in their fridge is generally enough to make them act out. As for the suburban kids, they never take it beyond a fantasy in their head. I remember I went to Watts with a few lsemi upper class little chodes who listened to gangsta rap and wanted to be like their idols (so they thought) When we got there nobody but me got out of the car, and they ended up locking the doors and ducking in the seats lol. When it became real, they wanted nothing to do with it. Reminded me of the scene in Office Space where Michael is rapping along with the Geto Boys thinking he's super hard. And just the sight of a black dude caused him to shut up, lock his doors and almost shit himself. I know that's just a movie, but that scene was very accurate to stuff I've seen in real life.


Rap isn't to blame for anything in America, except maybe some suburban kids using slang which makes them look ridiculous.

dwell said:
I don't know of any Marilyn Manson song that promotes kids to shooting up their school. I know a lot of rap songs that promote guns, violence, drugs, abuse of women, etc.
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Rap doesn't promote any of that, talk about it? Sure, but talking and promoting are 2 different things. If you say rap music promotes shit like that, it's only fair you say Al Pachino promotes sniffing coke, shooting people and basically being a ruthless POS. I mean he was Scarface. And I would say easily that a super graphic movie like Scarface is a 1,000 times worse than any song could ever be. But he gets a pass right??? Thank god Al Pachino decided to be an actor and not a rapper...
 
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brblx said:
mainstream 'gangster' (i'm not spelling that shit with an 'a') rap isn't the cause of societal problems, but it certainly doesn't help. if you think there aren't legitimately people out there who think life is about shiny shit, shitty booze, and demoralizing women, you've been living in a box.
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I think people thought life was about shiny shit, booze, and demoralizing women WELL before rap. Watch SHAFT! There were crack addicts in that.. Dealers.. Pimps and hos.. Yet no beat boxing and rhyme slinging.
 
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