Scam Alert: Hospitals All Over America Are Wildly Inflating Medical Bills

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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The next time you visit a hospital, it is your wallet that may end up hurting the most. All over the United States, it has become common practice for hospitals to wildly inflate medical bills. For example, it has been reported that some hospitals are charging up to 30 dollars for a single aspirin pill.

And as you will see below, some victims report being billed tens of thousands of dollars for a non-surgical hospital visit that lasts only a few hours. When something is seriously wrong with us, most of us never stop to ask our health professionals how much it will cost to actually treat us.

In that moment, we are desperate and we just want someone to help us. Many doctors and hospitals take full advantage of this by billing their “customers” as much as they feel they can possible get away with. It is a legal scam that is bilking ordinary Americans out of billions of dollars every single year.

Over the weekend, the New York Times reported on one case that is a perfect example of the outrageous medical billing that I am talking about…

Before his three-hour neck surgery for herniated disks in December, Peter Drier, 37, signed a pile of consent forms. A bank technology manager who had researched his insurance coverage, Mr. Drier was prepared when the bills started arriving: $56,000 from Lenox Hill Hospital in Manhattan, $4,300 from the anesthesiologist and even $133,000 from his orthopedist, who he knew would accept a fraction of that fee.

He was blindsided, though, by a bill of about $117,000 from an “assistant surgeon,” a Queens-based neurosurgeon whom Mr. Drier did not recall meeting.

“I thought I understood the risks,” Mr. Drier, who lives in New York City, said later. “But this was just so wrong — I had no choice and no negotiating power.”

The practice known as “drive-by doctoring” has gotten completely and totally out of control.

All over America, doctors are popping into surgeries or are stopping by to talk to another doctor’s patients for a few minutes and are charging thousands of dollars for this “assistance”.

It is a morally reprehensible scam that needs to be stopped.

Another thing that needs to be stopped is the practice that many hospitals have of billing patients for emergency medications at a rate that is thousands of times over cost.

For example, just check out what happened when 52-year-old Marcie Edmonds went in to a hospital in Arizona to get treated for a scorpion sting…

With the help of a friend, she called Poison Control and was advised to go to the nearest hospital that had scorpion antivenom, Chandler Regional Medical Center. At the hospital, an emergency room doctor told her about the antivenom, called Anascorp, that could quickly relieve her symptoms. Edmonds said the physician never talked with her about the cost of the drug or treatment alternatives.

Her symptoms subsided after she received two doses of the drug Anascorp through an IV, and she was discharged from the hospital in about three hours.

Weeks later, she received a bill for $83,046 from Chandler Regional Medical Center. The hospital, owned by Dignity Health, charged her $39,652 per dose of Anascorp.

Did that hospital actually need to charge that much?

Of course not.

Hospitals down in Mexico only charge $100 per dose of Anascorp.

And anyone that has ever been in for major surgery knows how outrageous some of these hospital bills can be.

For instance, consider the experience of an NBC News reporter that chose to have neck surgery for degenerative disc disease….

Once I got my itemized bill, the grand total was a little over $66,013.40! That was for a one night stay and a four level vertebrae fusion surgery. The charges included $22 for one sleeping pill, $427 for one dissecting tool, and $32,000 for four titanium plates and ten screws.

I brought it to Todd Hill, a fee based patient advocate who helps people decipher their medical bills. “The screws in your procedure were billed at $605 a piece for a total of $6050 dollars. We’ve seen those in our past research for $25 or $30,” he said. “In this case, the markup is tremendous,” he added.

One of the primary reasons why so many Americans die completely broke is because medical bills can run up to astronomical heights if you happen to have a terminal illness.

For example, a while back Time Magazine reported on one cancer patient in California that had run up nearly a million dollars in hospital bills before he died…

By the time Steven D. died at his home in Northern California the following November, he had lived for an additional 11 months. And Alice had collected bills totaling $902,452. The family’s first bill — for $348,000 — which arrived when Steven got home from the Seton Medical Center in Daly City, Calif., was full of all the usual chargemaster profit grabs: $18 each for 88 diabetes-test strips that Amazon sells in boxes of 50 for $27.85; $24 each for 19 niacin pills that are sold in drugstores for about a nickel apiece. There were also four boxes of sterile gauze pads for $77 each. None of that was considered part of what was provided in return for Seton’s facility charge for the intensive-care unit for two days at $13,225 a day, 12 days in the critical unit at $7,315 a day and one day in a standard room (all of which totaled $120,116 over 15 days). There was also $20,886 for CT scans and $24,251 for lab work.

The sad truth is that the U.S. health care system has become a giant money making scam, and all of us are the victims.

Those that work in this industry should be greatly ashamed for what they are doing to us.

Just consider the following numbers…

-It has been estimated that hospitals in the United States overcharge their patients by about 10 billion dollars every single year.

-Medical bills are the number one reason why Americans file for bankruptcy. One study found that approximately 41 percent of all working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.

-According to a report published in The American Journal of Medicine, medical bills cause more than 60 percent of the personal bankruptcies in the United States.

-Health insurance is not nearly as much protection as you might think. According to a report published in the American Journal of Medicine, of all bankruptcies caused by medical debt approximately 75 percent of the time the people actually did have health insurance.

-Hospitals are not shy about sending debt collection agencies after people with unpaid medical bills. In fact, collection agencies seek to collect unpaid medical bills from approximately 30 million Americans every year.

-Back in 1980, less than 10 percent of U.S. GDP went to health care. Today, about 18 percent of U.S. GDP goes toward health care.

-If the U.S. health care system was a nation, it would be the 6th largest economy on the entire planet.

Does anyone out there have any doubt that the system is completely broken?

Please share this article with as many people as you can. Hospitals all over America are brazenly ripping us off, and we need to stand up and say that enough is enough.

Link to news article
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Sounds like these people didn't have insurance. I had rotator cuff surgery last December 31st but due to the fact I had hit my max out of pocket limit for the year prior to the surgery I paid didn't a cent of the approximately $38,000 bill (hospital/doctors).
 

master_shake_

Diamond Member
May 22, 2012
6,425
291
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I dont pay one red cent for any doctor or hospital visit or any surgeries or xrays

Thank you ohip.
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
You just have to play their game in reverse. Don't pay. Let them try to collect for months and months. Then let them threaten you with them sending it to collections. Collection agencies aren't going to buy medical bills except for pennies on the dollar so you will now have the hospital negotiate a reasonable bill. I did this for a couple of stitches they wanted to charge me over a thousand for....a couple of months later I gave them $250. They got what they should have charged in the first place and their scam was avoided.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
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Nothing New here, Rick Scott made a living out of it here and made a lot of money in Florida, somehow he dodged the charges when he was abusing the system and became Governor.
 
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her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
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I was picking up some prescription medications from the local pharmacy and I was told by the pharma tech that was helping retrieve my medication that one of them was sold over the counter and would actually be a lot cheaper versus paying the co-pay (which was already more than the OTC price) plus the insurance covering the rest.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,248
6,635
126
It's spiritually backward people who always get sick. They don't harbor tons of self destroying self hate. They are always happy and that produces chemicals in the brain and body that heal it and protect it from illness. It also awakens precognitive abilities that guard against accidents. The enlightened also recognize each other and can always turn to another of their kind to use their healing hands to fix any stray unavoidable event.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
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You just have to play their game in reverse. Don't pay. Let them try to collect for months and months. Then let them threaten you with them sending it to collections. Collection agencies aren't going to buy medical bills except for pennies on the dollar so you will now have the hospital negotiate a reasonable bill. I did this for a couple of stitches they wanted to charge me over a thousand for....a couple of months later I gave them $250. They got what they should have charged in the first place and their scam was avoided.

The problem with that is they are now sending these debts to debt collectors. I was just reading in another news article about how debt collectors are now getting judgements against people for unpaid medical debt. Then once they get the judgement they wipe out peoples bank accounts with garnishment and also get money from garnishment of peoples wages. It has become very problematic. What the article stated is the deceptive practices where in some states if the debt collectors main office is say in one state and you live in another they can file for the court judgement in their state. This makes it very difficult for people because they would have to travel to that state for court date. In addition there is some common practice of debt collectors hiring huge teams of lawyers and they purposefully don't sent the court summons to people, so they never know that they are suppose to appear in court.

It is a very nasty business that is enslaving the common American into debt slavery now.

I really do believe that government should step in on this with the hospitals and stop this.
 

SlickSnake

Diamond Member
May 29, 2007
5,235
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It's spiritually backward people who always get sick. They don't harbor tons of self destroying self hate. They are always happy and that produces chemicals in the brain and body that heal it and protect it from illness. It also awakens precognitive abilities that guard against accidents. The enlightened also recognize each other and can always turn to another of their kind to use their healing hands to fix any stray unavoidable event.

Come on Moony, you can do so much better than this. Did you run out of weed or drugs again, or what?

So when you end up in a car crash because a drunk driver hits you, which happens constantly, that's because you are full of self hate? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the next time a plane, ship or a train wrecks killing hundreds, that's not the passengers fault because they harbor self hate. Seriously, you need to get a grip sometimes. And if that's supposed to have been some form of twisted sarcasm, then it sucks and you need a new random sarcasm generator.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,128
2,399
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Sounds like these people didn't have insurance. I had rotator cuff surgery last December 31st but due to the fact I had hit my max out of pocket limit for the year prior to the surgery I paid didn't a cent of the approximately $38,000 bill (hospital/doctors).

The problem is out of network issues with health insurance. Usually Insurance companies negotiate rates for charges for the Hospital/Doctor etc. The problem that can arise is if you wind up at a Hospital out of network or even a In-network Hospital. You will see on your bill something like $30k for XYZ procedure and then the network negotiated amount will be something like $3k. So the insurance company will only pay this amount and you are not responsible for the rest because the Hospital has a contract with the Insurance Company.

I have seen this go off the rails. The first situation is you go to a In network Hospital but some group of Dr's that are inside the Hospital don't have a agreement with a Insurance company so they are out of network. The Health Insurance company will only offer compensation for what they consider reasonable and customary charges for a procedure. So if a certain visit by a Dr out of network with xyz medical code(everything has a certain code) costs say $10k and the Insurance company says the reasonable and customary charge for this code is say $1.5k guess who is on the hook for $8.5K? You are and somewhere in the blizzard of paperwork you signed you assume responsibility for this even though you went to a in network hospital. I had this issue with the birth of my two daughters. The hospital, OB DR, birthing unit etc. all in network for my insurance. The Neo-natal specialist Dr's where not in network so I got stuck with the bill for what these Dr's charge above reasonable and customary even though everything else was in-network. Apparently my Insurance company expected me to inquire of everyone that did anything for my wife and or newborns if they where in network.

The other problem arises if you wind up at a Hospital in a emergency that is not in network. The Hospital has a captive audience and they can fleece you even with Insurance because the Hospital's is out of network.

Personally I think there needs to be some type of Govt master charge list for Health Procedures. They already have one for MediCare/MediCaid. I would say something like a Hospital can only charge say 200-300% for a specific coded procedure above what MediCare/MediCaid reimburse at. I know they both reimburse crappy so that is why I am saying 200-300% because even that would be a improvement. So in the $10k procedure example above they can maybe charge maximum of $3k for the procedure. The problem with medical insurance is so much of the normal price negotiation has broken down because everything is done before hand and you are not told the price until months later.
 
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Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
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Here is the info on the debt collectors on medical debt: With Debt Collection, Your Bank Account Could Be At Risk

in the article: ...lawyers for debt collectors will sometimes ask for delays or continuance on cases if they see a debtor is taking time off from work to show up in court. They will do that several times over weeks or months until the person finally gives up and doesn't come to court anymore, allowing the debt collector to get a default judgment against the debtor.

I thought this poster was very insightful in his comments:
The people who are defending "capitalism", for the most part, don't understand that they can't live in "capitalism". They have to live in a country, and a country has a system of government. And, that system of government has requirements. They mistakenly believe that they can live inside an economic theory. Theories aren't real. They are hypothesis that exist in the vapors.

Some think that capitalism is still something that is up for debate. It isn't. Knowledgable people know that stable democracies have examples of several different economic theories working inside them at one time.

The ignorant run around trying to champion one economic theory over another in the real world with little understanding of the impact of their wishes on the real world or on the system of government where they live.

Championing economic ideals that transfer wealth from the bottom to the top as a principle is a recipe for destroying your democracy. Stable democracies redistribute wealth downwards. Rightwing authoritarian countries redistribute wealth upwards.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Sounds like these people didn't have insurance. I had rotator cuff surgery last December 31st but due to the fact I had hit my max out of pocket limit for the year prior to the surgery I paid didn't a cent of the approximately $38,000 bill (hospital/doctors).

So the high billing to your insurance company doesn't drive up insurance bills for you and your employer?
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
Not sure what anyone expected to happen, but this is what happens when you offer a high demand service that's necessary for life. You get to charge what you want.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,380
448
126
How else are we supposed to pay for all the "children" streaming across the border getting free service at hospitals with no copay or id. Cost of getting votes for democrats isn't free you know.
 

Cozarkian

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,352
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Not sure what anyone expected to happen, but this is what happens when you offer a high demand service that's necessary for life. You get to charge what you want.

It's what happens when the value of your services are vastly inflated for a short period of time that coincides with price negotiations.

A $5 flotation device is worth substantially more than $5 to a person drowning in a lake. That doesn't mean you should be able to charge said drowning person $500 for leasing them a flotation device (i.e. tossing them a life preserver).
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,544
924
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I was having this conversation with a friend of mine earlier today. His wife was in Singapore on business and she had a migrane, which she isn't really prone to, so she went to the hospital. They ordered an MRI which was performed within 2 hours. Cost her $150. What does an MRI cost here? $5,000?

My friend's Dad was in the Philippines and had a medical problem, they thought he may have been dehydrated, he spent 3 days in the hospital, they monitored him, got him hydrated and sent him on his way, cost him a few hundred dollars. What does 3 days in a hospital cost here? $25,000?

I was in Spain with my wife and son a few years ago and our son had a high fever and vomiting so we took him to urgent care there, they saw him and prescribed antibiotics and sent us to the pharmacy... on a Sunday Cost me nothing for the visit and about $20 Euro for the prescription.

It is fucking insane what healthcare costs here and it is fucking insane what we charge for treatment.
 

nickbits

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2008
4,122
1
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Keep in mind a lot of those other countries are heavily taxed for their free healthcare. Personally I'd rather pay for services I use than have every single thing cost more.