Scam Alert: Hospitals All Over America Are Wildly Inflating Medical Bills

[mchammer187]

Keep in mind a lot of those other countries are heavily taxed for their free healthcare. Personally I'd rather pay for services I use than have every single thing cost more.

US is the highest spender per capita on healthcare and its not even close

 

[Moonbeam]

Come on Moony, you can do so much better than this. Did you run out of weed or drugs again, or what?

So when you end up in a car crash because a drunk driver hits you, which happens constantly, that's because you are full of self hate? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the next time a plane, ship or a train wrecks killing hundreds, that's not the passengers fault because they harbor self hate. Seriously, you need to get a grip sometimes. And if that's supposed to have been some form of twisted sarcasm, then it sucks and you need a new random sarcasm generator.

No, I just decided to post as if I had a conservative brain defect and made shit up as I went along. Everything I said is guaranteed to be true just because I said it.

 

[Jeff7]

Not sure what anyone expected to happen, but this is what happens when you offer a high demand service that's necessary for life. You get to charge what you want.

"Free market! Free market!"


The people who want the service are at risk of unhealed injuries (bad for the economy, oh no) or death. Sounds to me like someone offering the service could indeed price it at whatever they want. If it pushes the buyer into the equivalent of indentured servitude, well, screw them. They shouldn't have gotten injured or sick in the first place. Now pay up or we'll destroy your credit rating too, just for good measure. We'd kick you while you're down...but you probably couldn't pay for that treatment either.

"Free" market indeed.

Keep in mind a lot of those other countries are heavily taxed for their free healthcare. Personally I'd rather pay for services I use than have every single thing cost more.

We also pay a great deal in taxes for healthcare and we have to pay high premiums, and frequently deductibles and co-pays, on top of that.

It's alleged that having multiple insurance providers will lead to competition.
Ways that a competitive market can work:
- Your competition lowers prices. You lower yours to keep up. Or the competition increases quality, so you have to improve yours in order to keep up. These are the only things that "pure free market" champions will see.
- Your competition reduces quality to save costs. You can now breathe easy and do the same, and also enjoy repeat business when your poorly-made products breaks in a year. Bonus points if you create multiple brand names in order to blur the line between what you sell and what your competition sells. ("I'm never buying Tide again. I'll switch to Gain instead!")
- Your competition raises prices because they figure that you'll understand to do the same.


Healthcare providers can charge whatever the hell they feel like, and their competition knows that they can do the same.




This is of course not to say that having it run as a public utility is going to lead to a paradise. Government does plenty of corrupt things itself. Governments or private corporations are just organizations of people, and it's all too often the sleazy, power-hungry, greedy, corrupt assholes who claw their way to the top, viewing other people as little more than disposable means to an end. So either way, you've got organizations that don't always have your best interests in mind.
At least with it regulated as a utility, you'll have one entity to deal with and work out pricing with, rather than any number of the hundreds of independent companies out there offering healthcare plans.

It's what happens when the value of your services are vastly inflated for a short period of time that coincides with price negotiations.

A $5 flotation device is worth substantially more than $5 to a person drowning in a lake. That doesn't mean you should be able to charge said drowning person $500 for leasing them a flotation device (i.e. tossing them a life preserver).

The thing to do in the US would be to make them sign a waiver form while they're busy drowning.


I was headed to the hospital in an ambulance once for some really odd chest pains (like someone had embedded a golf ball in my chest), and they gave me a nitro tab to see if that changed anything.
My blood pressure abruptly plummeted and I nearly passed out lying down. A short time later, we arrived at the hospital and they then told me that I had to sign some forms. I couldn't sit up, I could hardly move my arms, and my vision was still partially blacked out. The first time they gave me the pen, I found that I wasn't yet able to close my fingers to hold it.

Yup, that's a perfect time for paperwork. It didn't look like they were willing to unload me from the ambulance though until the forms were signed.



That 5 mile ambulance ride used up $850 of my $1000 deductible.

 

[squarecut1]

US is the highest spender per capita on healthcare and its not even close

And the quality of care is nowhere near the top.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So the high billing to your insurance company doesn't drive up insurance bills for you and your employer?

The plan I've had for year has reasonable max out of pocket for individuals/families, currently $2,000/$4,000 with a $300/$700 deductible respectively. In the event of an emergency the company covers "out of network" services until the patient can be moved to a "in network" hospital/facility. Yet in the 24 years (18 years of field service where I worked in 42 states) I've worked for the company I have yet to run across a hospital, medical facility, or doctors office that wasn't "in network".

 

[nickbits]

US is the highest spender per capita on healthcare and its not even close

Yeah but you can get a box of cereal for $2 instead of $5

 

[squarecut1]

Yeah but you can get a box of cereal for $2 instead of $5

And electronics are cheaper than elsewhere. So are clothes. Just don't get sick

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I was having this conversation with a friend of mine earlier today. His wife was in Singapore on business and she had a migrane, which she isn't really prone to, so she went to the hospital. They ordered an MRI which was performed within 2 hours. Cost her $150. What does an MRI cost here? $5,000?

My friend's Dad was in the Philippines and had a medical problem, they thought he may have been dehydrated, he spent 3 days in the hospital, they monitored him, got him hydrated and sent him on his way, cost him a few hundred dollars. What does 3 days in a hospital cost here? $25,000?

I was in Spain with my wife and son a few years ago and our son had a high fever and vomiting so we took him to urgent care there, they saw him and prescribed antibiotics and sent us to the pharmacy... on a Sunday Cost me nothing for the visit and about $20 Euro for the prescription.

It is fucking insane what healthcare costs here and it is fucking insane what we charge for treatment.

I paid $92 for the MRI on my shoulder last year and $43 for the CT Scan I had last week. I pay 20% so with the company's negotiated rates they paid approximately $350 for the MRI and $150 for the CT Scan. When I worked overseas I submitted the receipts to the insurance company for any medical services and received 80% reimbursement.

 

[Victorian Gray]

And the quality of care is nowhere near the top.

Not completely true. For those who can afford it it's certainly top notch.

 

[Engineer]

The plan I've had for year has reasonable max out of pocket for individuals/families, currently $2,000/$4,000 with a $300/$700 deductible respectively. In the event of an emergency the company covers "out of network" services until the patient can be moved to a "in network" hospital/facility. Yet in the 24 years (18 years of field service where I worked in 42 states) I've worked for the company I have yet to run across a hospital, medical facility, or doctors office that wasn't "in network".

That doesn't change the fact that your employer pays more for the type of stuff in the OP.

 

[Grey_Beard]

Not sure many of you understand healthcare. Many take of their cars better than they take of themselves. We criticize hospitals but there is not really a "free market system". If IBM got paid extra for making bad products, you would never get innovation. Hospitals are paid for services rendered. The more services, the more money. Why would they invest in "wellness" or education, as this reduces revenue. So the less healthy people are, the more hospitals make. The more insurance companies make. The more pharmaceutical companies make and so. We think insurance companies will balance things out. Why would they. They can pass all additional costs on to any purchaser of their services. The investors love it, as returns are always robust. Even if the company or person uses less than they paid, why would they give it back. The system of payment is perverse. Passing more costs onto the people who use the service. Imagine if you buy two computers or more toilet paper, that these additional purchases get you no savings but exponentially more costs. On top of that, imagine that the only people purchasing insurance actually use it. This happens with healthcare, as most healthy people say I do not need it nor will I purchase it. If car insurance was that way, no one could afford that too. There is too much misinformation on this subject. Taxes are part if it. Insurance is part of it. Investors in the large companies that supply the drugs, medical supplies, equipment, technology and everything want great returns. Why do we not criticize GE for charging $1,000,000 for a CAT scan or an X-ray machine. Where is the railing against big pharmaceutical companies that charge outrageous amounts for the medicines they make to overcome the poisons they feed us. This is bigger than what hospitals charge. Looking at just that is not looking at whole picture. On top of that when we do not take of ourselves we do not realize that the cost to fix the medical,problems we have increase greatly. This is a complex issue. But one sensationalized by these headlines.

 

[Grey_Beard]

Not completely true. For those who can afford it it's certainly top notch.

Is not everything this way. A Mercedes cost more than a Hyundai. So those that can afford a Mercedes are buying a top notch car, right?

 

[JEDIYoda]

If we had to pay for my wife`s medicine out of our own pocket, it would cost us monthly in excess of $1,500.00. We pay $1.20 a month!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

^^ This..

Hospitals down in Mexico only charge $100 per dose of Anascorp.

So a lawyer makes a sensationalistic article full of lies and half truths and you naturally swallow it. Take the most extreme cases, misrepresent and create a falsehood which is completely misleading and you buy it because you want to believe. Take the above quote for example. There were cases of wild inflation but then the snake lawyer mentions $100 in Mexico? Do you even know how absurd that is, even assuming it's true?


Well, let's look at your brilliant idea about government. Why don't I pay pennies compared to dollars? Trillions in waste!

You can find stuff at the dollar store cheap so they are ripping us off.

Well CBD strikes I guess. Write nonsense based on ignorance and deception and you bite because your mindset forces square pegs into round holes. For others it's Obama being the Kenyon Muslim terrorist. You just picked a different flavor of foolishness.

Business as usual.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That doesn't change the fact that your employer pays more for the type of stuff in the OP.

I've never seen where the company didn't get a good negotiated rate for services. They weren't charged $20k for a CT scan like in the OP, it was $450.

 

[Engineer]

I've never seen where the company didn't get a good negotiated rate for services. They weren't charged $20k for a CT scan like in the OP, it was $450.

I never said that your company pays $20k, I said that it effect your company rates (i.e. they will go higher as EVERY scan will now inch up in price). And 'good negotiated rate' is relative (to the $20k). Compared to the rest of the world, it sucks donkey balls.

 

[NoStateofMind]

"Free market! Free market!"

The people who want the service are at risk of unhealed injuries (bad for the economy, oh no) or death. Sounds to me like someone offering the service could indeed price it at whatever they want. If it pushes the buyer into the equivalent of indentured servitude, well, screw them. They shouldn't have gotten injured or sick in the first place. Now pay up or we'll destroy your credit rating too, just for good measure. We'd kick you while you're down...but you probably couldn't pay for that treatment either.

"Free" market indeed.

Hi Jeff7. Are you making the claim that the healthcare system in place now is a "free market"?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

In the 24 years I've worked the company our rates have not increased by more than 4% in a year and that size increase has occurred in the past couple of years. In all the procedures and operations I've had the company never experience any of these hugely inflated cost shown in the OP. They always had reasonable negotiated rates for the services whether Aetna or BCBSIL was administering the program.

 

[Matt1970]

Hi Jeff7. Are you making the claim that the healthcare system in place now is a "free market"?

The government just wrote the largest piece of legislation to nationalize/fix health insurance yet you still cant shop across your own states border for it. Sounds like free market to me.

 

[WilliamM2]

Please share this article with as many people as you can. Hospitals all over America are brazenly ripping us off, and we need to stand up and say that enough is enough.
[/QUOTE]

I remember reading articles just like this over 20 years ago.

Luckily we have the ACA in effect now, practices like this no longer exist, and everybody can afford top notch healthcare...

[url]http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/[/url]

:D:D:D:D

 

[unokitty]

How much is good health care worth to you?
$8,233 per year? That’s how much the U.S. spends per person.

Worth it?

That figure is more than two-and-a-half times more than most developed nations in the world, including relatively rich European countries like France, Sweden and the United Kingdom. On a more global scale, it means U.S. health care costs now eat up 17.6 percent of GDP.

In the United States:
There are fewer physicians per person than in most other OECD countries. In 2010, for instance, the U.S. had 2.4 practicing physicians per 1,000 people — well below below the OECD average of 3.1.

The number of hospital beds in the U.S. was 2.6 per 1,000 population in 2009, lower than the OECD average of 3.4 beds.

Life expectancy at birth increased by almost nine years between 1960 and 2010, but that’s less than the increase of over 15 years in Japan and over 11 years on average in OECD countries. The average American now lives 78.7 years in 2010, more than one year below the average of 79.8 years.

When we look across a broad range of hospital services (both medical and surgical), the average price in the United States is 85 percent higher than the average in other OECD countries. To put this in perspective, a hospital stay in the United States costs over $18,000 on average. The countries that come closest to spending as much — Canada, the Netherlands, Japan — spend between $4,000 and $6,000 less per stay. Across OECD countries, the average cost of a hospital stay is about one-third that of the U.S., at $6,200.

A coronary bypasses costs between nearly 50 percent more than in Canada, Australia and France, and are double the price in Germany.

Hip and knee replacements are generally cheaper in other countries than the U.S.
PTCAs (coronary angioplasty) are much more expensive in the United States than elsewhere.

...with so many different kinds of insurance, no one organization has a strong incentive to cut out wasteful practices and ensure that all Americans get value for the very high levels of expenditure incurred when they are sick.

Most expensive health care in the world.
Fewer physicians and hospital beds than most other industrialized nations.
No incentive to cut wasteful practices and insure that all Americans get value...
And oh, "Overall, the life expectancy of a U.S. citizen, at 78.2 years, is shorter than the average among OECD countries of 79.5 years..."

With all of the recent conflict and legislation about US healthcare, anyone surprised that there is still no incentive to cut waste or assure value to the client?

Uno

 

[TheSlamma]

Time for the government to start regulating hospitals as public utilities.

Japans seems to work really well like this.

 

[Newell Steamer]

It's OK, the market will correct and regulate itself.

And, if not, then don't use medical assistance.



Also, if you can't afford these kind of charges, you are clearly a drug taking, tattoo getting, iPhone buying, abortion getting lazy person - clearly.

 

[Matt1970]

It's OK, the market will correct and regulate itself.

And, if not, then don't use medical assistance.



Also, if you can't afford these kind of charges, you are clearly a drug taking, tattoo getting, iPhone buying, abortion getting lazy person - clearly.

It might have if we actually had a free market.

 

[Engineer]

From unokitty's post...

...with so many different kinds of insurance, no one organization has a strong incentive to cut out wasteful practices and ensure that all Americans get value for the very high levels of expenditure incurred when they are sick.

It might have if we actually had a free market.

Yep, just like all the other FREE MARKET's on unokitty's chart.