Say what you will about Chrysler

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: Black88GTA

Originally posted by: woodie1
It really doesn't matter what the big 3 are producing now if no one is buying them. I've read great reviews on some of the new models but without financing and buyers the showrooms are just gonna fill up with more unsold vehicles. Even Honda and Toyota are feeling the slowdown.

The argument could be made that customers needing cars will turn away from the higher priced Hondas and Toyotas (which have been slipping in quality over the last few years) in favor of a fresh domestic model with glowing reviews behind it, lower MSRP than a comparable H/T model, and rebates available on top of that. It's easier to get financing for a $18k Chevy than it is for a $25k Toyota. And remember, GM is still tops in overall sales.

As I recall Honda and Toyota are not asking for taxpayer money to stay in business.

As I recall Honda/Toyota have not been in business as long and do not have legacy cost like GM.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: Black88GTA

Originally posted by: woodie1
It really doesn't matter what the big 3 are producing now if no one is buying them. I've read great reviews on some of the new models but without financing and buyers the showrooms are just gonna fill up with more unsold vehicles. Even Honda and Toyota are feeling the slowdown.

The argument could be made that customers needing cars will turn away from the higher priced Hondas and Toyotas (which have been slipping in quality over the last few years) in favor of a fresh domestic model with glowing reviews behind it, lower MSRP than a comparable H/T model, and rebates available on top of that. It's easier to get financing for a $18k Chevy than it is for a $25k Toyota. And remember, GM is still tops in overall sales.

As I recall Honda and Toyota are not asking for taxpayer money to stay in business.

As I recall Honda/Toyota have not been in business as long and do not have legacy cost like GM.

Why should Joe the taxpayer have to pay for a bad business decision? Should we give every corporation a free ride when they make stupid business choices?

 

[DomS]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: Black88GTA

Originally posted by: woodie1
It really doesn't matter what the big 3 are producing now if no one is buying them. I've read great reviews on some of the new models but without financing and buyers the showrooms are just gonna fill up with more unsold vehicles. Even Honda and Toyota are feeling the slowdown.

The argument could be made that customers needing cars will turn away from the higher priced Hondas and Toyotas (which have been slipping in quality over the last few years) in favor of a fresh domestic model with glowing reviews behind it, lower MSRP than a comparable H/T model, and rebates available on top of that. It's easier to get financing for a $18k Chevy than it is for a $25k Toyota. And remember, GM is still tops in overall sales.

As I recall Honda and Toyota are not asking for taxpayer money to stay in business.

and Toyota passed GM for overall sales last year

 

[dirtboy]

I love my Jeep. It's the best vehicle I've ever owned.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Chrysler needs to do this if they're going to survive.

Cancel EVERY vehicle they have outside of the Ram Truck.

Make three motors total outside of their truck lineup , and make them all very very good.

A ~135hp 2.0 4Cyl that has almost zero emissions and can deliver 40mpg mixed driving in a 3000lb car when matched with a newly designed 5-speed auto.
A ~240hp 3.0 6Cyl that meets the above, but delivers ~35mpg mixed driving in a 3500lb car.
A ~350hp 5.0 8Cyl that meets the above, and delivers ~30mpg mixed driving for their higher-end vehicles.

Make three lines of cars.

A great economy car, available in either coupe or 5-door hatch.
A great midsize car, available in either sedan or wagon. (make an SUV variant)
A great large car, available in either sedan or wagon. (make an SUV variant)

Forget niche cars, Dodge is behind the curve.

GET THE BASICS DOWN, then come back with the occasional curve ball. Focus on lightweight, simplicity, fuel economy, while meeting excellent safety goals.

The Big 3 have too many different overlapping models and configurations.

While I am on the same page that Chyrsler's products are abysmal...your engine expectations are pretty stringent given what we have today.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender

Originally posted by: Bignate603
At least GM has some decent cars.

About as decent as a 55 year old toothless hooker.

Really...c'mon...GM has some fantastic products. Sure they have plenty of duds and are in no way as consistent across the board as some German and Japanese manufacturers...but there are plenty of Gem's in GM's lineup...

Chevy Malibu
GMC Acadia
Cadiallac CTS (especially V)
Chevy Silverado
Corvette (in ever trim)
Pontiac G8
Saturn Astra

And I really think the Cruze and the Volt will be quality offerings. I'm in no way saying GM is at the position they should be...but I think Lutz really has had a good effect on the company...and given another decade...we'll be impressed with what the company is putting out.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Chrysler needs to do this if they're going to survive.

Cancel EVERY vehicle they have outside of the Ram Truck.

Make three motors total outside of their truck lineup , and make them all very very good.

A ~135hp 2.0 4Cyl that has almost zero emissions and can deliver 40mpg mixed driving in a 3000lb car when matched with a newly designed 5-speed auto.
A ~240hp 3.0 6Cyl that meets the above, but delivers ~35mpg mixed driving in a 3500lb car.
A ~350hp 5.0 8Cyl that meets the above, and delivers ~30mpg mixed driving for their higher-end vehicles.

Make three lines of cars.

A great economy car, available in either coupe or 5-door hatch.
A great midsize car, available in either sedan or wagon. (make an SUV variant)
A great large car, available in either sedan or wagon. (make an SUV variant)

Forget niche cars, Dodge is behind the curve.

GET THE BASICS DOWN, then come back with the occasional curve ball. Focus on lightweight, simplicity, fuel economy, while meeting excellent safety goals.

The Big 3 have too many different overlapping models and configurations.

While I am on the same page that Chyrsler's products are abysmal...your engine expectations are pretty stringent given what we have today.

Oil probably won't stay cheap for very long, given the global market and when a rebound comes, it's gonna be a PITA once again at the pump.

They could use a turbo setup like Ford's Ecoboost system to fit on 'performance/enthusiast' models.

Probably get ~220hp from a decent 2.0 with tuning and moderate boost, 335hp from the 3.0, and 440+ from the 5.0, without going too crazy.

 

[woodie1]

And in Ford News ...

Ford announced that the Taurus X wagon and the Mercury Sable sedan will be discontinued early next year because of slow sales.

Mercury Sable sales are down 21 percent this year from 2007, Taurus X sales are down 41 percent.

I guess changing the names to protect the innocent doesn't always work.

 

[JDub02]

I think Chrysler needs to really slim down its product line.

Jeep - back down to 3 models - Wrangler, Cherokee (base SUV), and Grand Cherokee (luxury SUV) - forget all the bull**** crossover nonsense wearing a Jeep badge. They're not Jeeps

Dodge - hit and miss now. 2009 Ram is the best truck on the market, by far. Dakota - not a bad truck. Needs to be slimmed down and run by a nice V6 or I6. A compact truck shouldn't need a V8 just to get around. The Challenger is a homerun with the Hemi (the base V6 needs work to catch up to GM's offering in the upcoming Camaro). Grand Caravan has been a success for years. Durango - not bad, but not great. Should be slimmed down and built on the Dakota platform. Dodge needs some other decent cars or to just get out of the car business. The Calibur is a POS. Charger - V6 sucks and the styling is blah. Nitro - blah. Journey - blah. Whatever one is the Sebring clone - blah.

Chrysler - stop making the crap Sebring. The 300 was a hit, but now it's long overdue for a refresh. Aspen - it's a Durango with a different grill. Either make it a real luxury SUV or don't make it.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: Black88GTA

Originally posted by: woodie1
It really doesn't matter what the big 3 are producing now if no one is buying them. I've read great reviews on some of the new models but without financing and buyers the showrooms are just gonna fill up with more unsold vehicles. Even Honda and Toyota are feeling the slowdown.

The argument could be made that customers needing cars will turn away from the higher priced Hondas and Toyotas (which have been slipping in quality over the last few years) in favor of a fresh domestic model with glowing reviews behind it, lower MSRP than a comparable H/T model, and rebates available on top of that. It's easier to get financing for a $18k Chevy than it is for a $25k Toyota. And remember, GM is still tops in overall sales.

As I recall Honda and Toyota are not asking for taxpayer money to stay in business.

As I recall Honda/Toyota have not been in business as long and do not have legacy cost like GM.

They're also based in Japan where much of the pension/retirement is paid for by the government which takes out quite a bit of the legacy costs.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Chrysler needs to do this if they're going to survive.

Cancel EVERY vehicle they have outside of the Ram Truck.

Make three motors total outside of their truck lineup , and make them all very very good.

A ~135hp 2.0 4Cyl that has almost zero emissions and can deliver 40mpg mixed driving in a 3000lb car when matched with a newly designed 5-speed auto.
A ~240hp 3.0 6Cyl that meets the above, but delivers ~35mpg mixed driving in a 3500lb car.
A ~350hp 5.0 8Cyl that meets the above, and delivers ~30mpg mixed driving for their higher-end vehicles.

Make three lines of cars.

A great economy car, available in either coupe or 5-door hatch.
A great midsize car, available in either sedan or wagon. (make an SUV variant)
A great large car, available in either sedan or wagon. (make an SUV variant)

Forget niche cars, Dodge is behind the curve.

GET THE BASICS DOWN, then come back with the occasional curve ball. Focus on lightweight, simplicity, fuel economy, while meeting excellent safety goals.

The Big 3 have too many different overlapping models and configurations.

Those numbers would be great but aren't really reasonable. I have yet to see a V8 get 30 mpg in mixed driving. Maybe touch it on the highway where cylinder deactivation can kick in. AFAIK no car company has a V8 vehicle that's hitting 30 mpg mixed. You can say it would be great to have but that doesn't mean it's possible.

 

[Chunkee]

I think the Ford Fusion looks pretty sharp in its class...driven them all also, seems like a good player and the CONSUMER and MAG reviews seem good as well. They still arent dealing really...

most are still undercutting tradeins...they all still feel they need to make 5-6 grand on each deal.

JC

 

[slag]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender

Originally posted by: Bignate603
At least GM has some decent cars.

About as decent as a 55 year old toothless hooker.

Yes, the new CTS is a horrible car. Same with the C6 corvette and that ZR-1 is TERRIBLE. Who would want one? And motor trend must be on crack to think the Malibu was the car of the year. The solstice and sky completely missed the small and sporty market too :roll:

Your comment is a few years too late.

At least 11 years too late. My 97 GTP was a wonderful car, best car I've ever owned. Even better than my 95, 96, or 2003 maxima, and better than my 2000 infiniti.