Say what you want about George W.

[ivwshane]

Not being caught is hardly the most commendable thing one could say.




This argument is not going to serve you or Obama well. You are mostly correct. There are transition teams which advise and inform the incoming administration. This has been the case with every administration that I am aware of. When Bush took over from Clinton, Madeline Albright had a meeting with the National Security Advisor, one Condoleeza Rice, on what she believed was the greatest threat to the US, an organization known as Al Qaeda. In no time the incoming administration decided that Saddam was THE threat and promptly ignored Albrights words.

Now I note that you use "the very first day". Yes, the very first day the President is advised on national security issues. It's the first order of business. Now it may be true that "the first day" the President would not know precisely who was being targeted for intelligence gathering, however he will be informed of major operations, and it's beyond credulity to suggest that spying on the heads of major powers isn't mentioned somewhere. Note that no one suggested that "on the first day" Obama was aware of activities against Germany, however 2010 isn't "on the first day". Now perhaps Obama is so incompetent that he "forgot" to bother to learn about critical information gathering that he didn't know, but that's not an alternative that is attractive either.



Apparently Congress isn't briefed on a great many things, no surprise, and apparently you seem to not realize that the NSA and the CIA are executive branch entities which answer to the President above all others. They do exactly what the President says

Wrong on every count. The CIA reports to congress as does the NSA, both the CIA and NSA advise the president. Operations of both are approved by the congress and and details are usually kept on a need to know basis, including for the president. If the CIA or NSA came to the president about international spying it was done in an advisory fashion with details only given when asked.

Pretty standard stuff if you understood how our government works

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Wrong on every count. The CIA reports to congress as does the NSA, both the CIA and NSA advise the president. Operations of both are approved by the congress and and details are usually kept on a need to know basis, including for the president. If the CIA or NSA came to the president about international spying it was done in an advisory fashion with details only given when asked.

Pretty standard stuff if you understood how our government works

Ahh, so the Democrats were the ones who rearranged the intelligence agencies to give Bush what he wanted. That's good to know.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Maybe while you are at it you can read up on this group.Maybe you can edit the wiki

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Then you can tell the rest of the world that Obama couldn't have known or approved because he's powerless and kept in inland
ignorance

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Then call Obama and tell him he can't tell the CIA what to do.

 

[shady28]

Wrong on every count. The CIA reports to congress as does the NSA, both the CIA and NSA advise the president. Operations of both are approved by the congress and and details are usually kept on a need to know basis, including for the president. If the CIA or NSA came to the president about international spying it was done in an advisory fashion with details only given when asked.

Pretty standard stuff if you understood how our government works

You are either a liar or an idiot.

The NSA and CIA both report to the Director of National Intelligence (DNI).

That position reports to the President.

What IS true is that Congress has the power to abolish the organization either by passing a law or by simply de-funding it. But they could do that to anything, and it has happened before, but with the Gov't unions and politics being what it is that's pretty close to impossible these days.


But don't believe me, read for yourself :


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence


"The Director of National Intelligence (DNI) is the United States government official – subject to the authority, direction, and control of the President – required by the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 to:

Serve as principal advisor to the President, the National Security Council, and the Homeland Security Council about intelligence matters related to national security;
Serve as head of the sixteen-member Intelligence Community; and
Direct and oversee the National Intelligence Program. "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence

 

[shadow9d9]

You realize that due to how we collect data and react if another 9/11 has been stopped they can't really tell us right? Its the down side to these programs if they work right we never know it,but if they are abused everyone knows it, you only hear the negative never the positive.

It is not worth giving up our freedoms for, period, no matter how many 9/11s it prevents.

You want to stop another 9/11? Stop interfering with the middle east's affairs. Stop invading and indefinitely occupying random foreign countries in the ME. Stop propping up and supporting dictators in the middle east so we could have more access to oil. These same dictators keep their people poor and uneducated and have them focus their hate on the US. I could continue if you'd like.

 

[MagickMan]

This isn't bush's or obama's fault or anyone elses fault. It's Edward Snowden's fault.

His spite of the "government" has made us all look bad.

I'm not going to kiss any president's ass but I'll say this.. for the most part the NSA gets it right when they manage to thwart terror funds/ plans.

Is it perfect? No.
Is it better than doing nothing and just wishing that Americans can defend themselves when the time comes like Flight 93? Yes.

IMHO any president nowdays doesn't care what the NSA or the CIA do. They care what we get caught doing.. just like Abu Graib and Bush was just as stupid as Obama to get caught doing that!

You aren't serious? There's no way you can justify wiretaps on our allies' leaders, or even on their citizens, especially not for over a decade. This isn't Syria or Iran we're talking about, these are our friends (or at least, they were). Obama's a liar and an international criminal.

 

[MagickMan]

The retard is strong with this one!

Obama? That's going a little far, definitely a lying sack of shit, though. :hmm:

 

[LegendKiller]

You aren't serious? There's no way you can justify wiretaps on our allies' leaders, or even on their citizens, especially not for over a decade. This isn't Syria or Iran we're talking about, these are our friends (or at least, they were). Obama's a liar and an international criminal.

Friends? The French even admitted they spy, but we do it better. Where do you think the French got plans for the atomic bomb when Truman wouldn't give it to them? The Brits spy on us. The Israelis spy on us.

What don't you get about this? There are no "friends" when it comes down to international relations. This has been going on since the beginning of time.

Are you really this naive?

 

[iGas]

U.S. Spied on Merkel Since 2002

IMHO, at this moment it doesn't matter who spies on who, because at the moment the US admin are the one in the spot light, and has damage control to deal with.

 

[MagickMan]

Friends? The French even admitted they spy, but we do it better. Where do you think the French got plans for the atomic bomb when Truman wouldn't give it to them? The Brits spy on us. The Israelis spy on us.

What don't you get about this? There are no "friends" when it comes down to international relations. This has been going on since the beginning of time.

Are you really this naive?

Have you (the Dems) really sunk this low? Comparing yourselves to Bush, Cheney, et al? Saying that "they do it, we just do it better", isn't honorable or justified. You're right, right now we are no better than anyone else, and it's shameful to say. We have no friends anymore after this, you're right there, too.

Do you realize what that piece of shit in the White House, and the views of this administration, have reduced you people to? Accepting corruption, international fraud, and blatant violations of 15 treaties, just to continue to support the same person that has done more harm to our civil rights than any other single president in history? He's been caught snooping on the entire world, expanding international use of drones, and using the Justice Dept and IRS as his personal thugs to go after whomever he wants.

Jesus Christ, wake up everybody. He isn't your savior, he's dictator and a crook.

 

[cuafpr]

It is not worth giving up our freedoms for, period, no matter how many 9/11s it prevents.

You want to stop another 9/11? Stop interfering with the middle east's affairs. Stop invading and indefinitely occupying random foreign countries in the ME. Stop propping up and supporting dictators in the middle east so we could have more access to oil. These same dictators keep their people poor and uneducated and have them focus their hate on the US. I could continue if you'd like.

The first part is up to each person to decide and vote for leaders that agree with them on what they consider reasonable vs unreasonable.

i'm not arguing the second cause i generally agree, but the nature of intel work is such that the most protected asset is the source and we will never know if there has been 1,000 attacks stopped or 0 attacks stopped no matter what we do overseas. There is a careful balance to be kept and i'm kinda glad i don't have to be the one to do he balancing act... fail to act and people die and people scream you didn't do enough, do to much and people scream invasion of privacy and loss of liberty.

 

[LegendKiller]

Have you (the Dems) really sunk this low? Comparing yourselves to Bush, Cheney, et al? Saying that "they do it, we just do it better", isn't honorable or justified. You're right, right now we are no better than anyone else, and it's shameful to say. We have no friends anymore after this, you're right there, too.

Do you realize what that piece of shit in the White House, and the views of this administration, have reduced you people to? Accepting corruption, international fraud, and blatant violations of 15 treaties, just to continue to support the same person that has done more harm to our civil rights than any other single president in history? He's been caught snooping on the entire world, expanding international use of drones, and using the Justice Dept and IRS as his personal thugs to go after whomever he wants.

Jesus Christ, wake up everybody. He isn't your savior, he's dictator and a crook.

Dude, you are the one who needs to wake the fuck up. This is the way the world works. Allies spy on each other. It's been that way forever and it will always be that way.

The brits spy on us, we spy on them. That's about as close of an ally as you can get.

You need to grow the fuck up. This isn't some fairy tale world.

This level of naivete is really shocking. No wonder why we have such a brain drain in this country. Spoiled ass gen x/y-ers can't wake the fuck up. Its why the libertopians are even able to get off the ground. You guys just don't get basic human psychology and aren't competitive at all.

Everybody needs a medal, everybody is special, we all just "get along". No fucking motivation.

Bunch of pussies.

WHy don't you go and try to ask Merkel why she's waging economic war on the peripheral Euro members. Maybe she'll tell you she'll be honorable and stop so Germans become unemployed. Because, you know, she's honorable and everything and cares more about Greeks than she does about her own countrymen, that's the honorable thing to do, right?

Geez you guys are pathetic.

 

[ivwshane]

You are either a liar or an idiot.

The NSA and CIA both report to the Director of National Intelligence (DNI).

That position reports to the President.

What IS true is that Congress has the power to abolish the organization either by passing a law or by simply de-funding it. But they could do that to anything, and it has happened before, but with the Gov't unions and politics being what it is that's pretty close to impossible these days.


But don't believe me, read for yourself :


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence


"The Director of National Intelligence (DNI) is the United States government official – subject to the authority, direction, and control of the President – required by the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 to:

Serve as principal advisor to the President, the National Security Council, and the Homeland Security Council about intelligence matters related to national security;
Serve as head of the sixteen-member Intelligence Community; and
Direct and oversee the National Intelligence Program. "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence

Did you read the fucking part about the DNI's primary duty is to advise the president? Of course you didn't!

 

[ivwshane]

Then you can tell the rest of the world that Obama couldn't have known or approved because he's powerless and kept in inland
ignorance

Lol! So new evidence comes out and that changes anything I said? No it doesn't, all it does is confirm the process that I stated. In this case if the report is true then, under the advice from the NSA OBAMA allowed it to continue. Hmm how does one authorize an action that's already been taking place if he is the one directing the NSA?

Logic fail on your part again.


So where does that leave us? The NSA spying on allies? Is that illegal? Do you have some information that says this particular spying wasn't warranted?

Exactly what is your problem?

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'm pretty sure that on the first day of a new presidency, all the top security heads meet with the prez and tell him every fucking program that is going on an it's details.

Makes sense! The president has to not only know everything but he also has to have his hand in day to day operations.

I mean it's not like congress is briefed on these things in their intelligence committees.

I am pretty sure that you have no clue what you are babbling about! There are department heads to run the day to day operations od the various departments! nievety is strong in this one!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Snowden is a HERO!!!

 

[shady28]

Did you read the fucking part about the DNI's primary duty is to advise the president? Of course you didn't!

Did you read the bolded part about taking direction from the president? Of course not, your kind selectively edits out that which doesn't fit with your lies. If you read the link you'll find that they're subject to executive orders as well. Of course you won't do that, as you've just demonstrated.

 

[ivwshane]

Did you read the bolded part about taking direction from the president? Of course not, your kind selectively edits out that which doesn't fit with your lies. If you read the link you'll find that they're subject to executive orders as well. Of course you won't do that, as you've just demonstrated.

Yeah, no shit he can tell them to do something, ie he can tell them to go ahead with a strike to kill bin laden. He doesn't direct their operations and he certainly doesn't come up with specific directions with no prior information on his own. He is advised, and based on the advise given he picks the option presented to him that he feels is the best decision.

How this doesn't make sense to you is beyond me. But I guess you think he is an evil genius who sits around and comes up with these crazy plots you guys seem to think he is capable of creating.

 

[ivwshane]

I am pretty sure that you have no clue what you are babbling about! There are department heads to run the day to day operations od the various departments! nievety is strong in this one!!

Yep and it's the president at the helm who says, "we should be doing x".

You guys are fucking retarded!


The surge, btw, was Obamas idea, he came up with the idea and told the military to make it happen.

NSA wire tapping was also bushs idea, he thought we should be doing more spying and he told the NSA who might be some good targets to start with.

It was Reagan who came up with the "star wars" program. He just had the military figure out how to make it work.

/s

 

[CanOWorms]

Germany is not an ally.

 

[OutHouse]

The surge, btw, was Obamas idea, he came up with the idea and told the military to make it happen.

the surge was in 2007 how can a senator tell the military to make it happen?? oh and obama was against the surge.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ck-was-obama-against-the-troop-surge-in-iraq/

please learn how our government works.

 

[ivwshane]

the surge was in 2007 how can a senator tell the military to make it happen?? oh and obama was against the surge.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ck-was-obama-against-the-troop-surge-in-iraq/

please learn how our government works.

Holy fuck you are stupid! My point was none of the actions by any president were done in a vacuum, the surge was presented to the president as an option along with the pros and cons, the president didn't come up with the idea himself.

Thanks for ignoring the sarcasm tag btw

 

[ivwshane]

Oops...looks like you guys have egg on your face once again!

From the liberal mag-wsj
http://m.us.wsj.com/article_email/S...0180138036-lMyQjAxMTAzMDIwNzEyNDcyWj?mobile=y

The White House cut off some monitoring programs after learning of them, including the one tracking Ms. Merkel and some other world leaders, a senior U.S. official said. Other programs have been slated for termination but haven't been phased out completely yet, officials said.
The account suggests President Barack Obama went nearly five years without knowing his own spies were bugging the phones of world leaders. Officials said the NSA has so many eavesdropping operations under way that it wouldn't have been practical to brief him on all of them.
They added that the president was briefed on and approved of broader intelligence-collection "priorities," but that those below him make decisions about specific intelligence targets.
The senior U.S. official said that the current practice has been for these types of surveillance decisions to be made at the agency level. "These decisions are made at NSA," the official said. "The president doesn't sign off on this stuff." That protocol now is under review, the official added.