Saw this question on r/atheism today.

[Cerpin Taxt]

"Improbable"? Just admit you have no evidence and are holding your position based on what you think, what you want to believe... not what you know and can prove. Your position is as irrational as those whom you accusing of being irrational. You're obviously oblivious to this, or are simply ignoring it.

Total nonsense.

For example, we have literally millions if not billions of data points recording dead people staying dead after being dead for three days.

The Christ myth represents a single statistical outlier. It is not unreasonable to conclude that it is a measurement error, absent some extraordinary evidence to contrary.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That's all well and good, but one's personal spirituality far too often spills over into the things we do to each other and the rules beyond the basics we impose on one another in the name of "fixing" or "preventing" a problem... and that is never good.

In my opinion the problem is not spirituality per se...it's actually the inherent nature of man that's the problem. Stalin wasn't spiritual and he killed millions. Hitler was "spiritual" in some twisted way and he killed millions. Evil has no qualms about using the guise of spirituality...all it takes is a good look at what happened during the Spanish Inquisition to realize that.

 

[zsdersw]

In my opinion the problem is not spirituality per se...it's actually the inherent nature of man that's the problem. Stalin wasn't spiritual and he killed millions. Hitler was "spiritual" in some twisted way and he killed millions. Evil has no qualms about using the guise of spirituality...all it takes is a good look at what happened during the Spanish Inquisition to realize that.

To be sure, spirituality isn't the only vehicle for imposing upon others in heinous and violent ways, but inasmuch as this thread is about religion and spirituality I thought it best to address it specifically.

 

[soulcougher73]

I wouldn't doubt Jesus's existence if I were you.

Odin is going to smite you. You've been smoted.

 

[zsdersw]

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Couple of videos of Neil DeGrasse Tyson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxff0k_TEzI

The first one is rebuking Richard Dawkins and is a short video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3mtDC2fQo

The second one is explaining why some scientists believed in a deity and is 41 minutes long, but a very good read. Why does it seem like reading when you watch Neil Tyson?


Some of my thoughts on the 1st video: Think of a kid, let's say 13 years old. He is clinging to his mom, and you think to yourself, he is too old to be clinging to his mom like that! So you take out your trusty chain saw, you fire it up and exclaim: "Stop clinging to your mom or I'll cut your arms off!"

What do you suppose he will do? Probably cling to his mom even more so.

Militant atheists like Richard Dawkins have probably never converted a religious person for this reason. He may get much applause from his base, but will make religious folks just cling to their religion even more.

____________________________________________________________

The second video summary: Scientists invoke a deity when they reach the limit of their understanding (for lack of a better word).

Thank for for the video links. I watched it with concentration. Neil is someone I can respect because he understands and know what is the limits of knowledge.

 

[Ausm]

I think Bill Maher nailed it here folks!

 

[FelixDeCat]

I think Bill Maher nailed it here folks!

Bill Maher is such a loser. First he tried comedy and failed. Then he tried game shows and got accidentally smacked in the face by Erik Estrada and went into a fetal position (glass chin). Then he finally turned to religious hatred producing one sided, lol worthy trash videos on Youtube to make a cheap buck from atheist extremists. He has scraped the bottom of the barrel.

The worst part is, one day he will not want to pay his last bill when it comes due - a trip to hell - for helping to turn people away from God.

Poor man, maybe he will wake up and embrace his Judaism or even Christianity before his final day. Death can come at any time and then its game over. :'(

 

[FelixDeCat]

I've been waiting for over 30 years for someone to tell me where Cain's wife came from.

Her parents.

 

[shadow9d9]

Bill Maher is such a loser. First he tried comedy and failed. Then he tried game shows and got accidentally smacked in the face by Erik Estrada and went into a fetal position (glass chin). Then he finally turned to religious hatred producing one sided, lol worthy trash videos on Youtube to make a cheap buck from atheist extremists. He has scraped the bottom of the barrel.

The worst part is, one day he will not want to pay his last bill when it comes due - a trip to hell - for helping to turning people away from God.

Poor man, maybe he will wake up and embrace his Judaism or even Christianity before his final day. Death can come at any time and then its game over. :'(

Can you cry more?

 

[FelixDeCat]

You're not irrational for sharing what you believe to be true.

What's wrong with you people? I guess free speech means nothing to you, since you think it's irrational to exercise the right.

I told him he is on ignore until 2014. His trolling is transparent and obvious. Maybe by then he will learn to communicate in a civil manner.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Can you cry more?

Sure. Dont tell me you've never cried.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Her parents.

And who were they?

 

[sandorski]

You're not irrational for sharing what you believe to be true.

What's wrong with you people? I guess free speech means nothing to you, since you think it's irrational to exercise the right.

lol, now you're going to make a Free Speech argument?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I told him he is on ignore until 2014. His trolling is transparent and obvious. Maybe by then he will learn to communicate in a civil manner.

Are you a Christian?

 

[FelixDeCat]

And who were they?

Never met them.

On a side note, I didnt know you wrote the TCIP/IP guide. I stumbled upon that back around 99/00 I think and tried to read most of it. I had it bookmarked for at least 8 or 9 years. Good work.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

And who were they?

Cain's wife was his sister according to Christian apologists.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Are you a Christian?

You mean do I forgive? Yes. And I am open to doing that but I dont think he is open to an apology. Over time I have have reconsidered people on ignore and released them before their scheduled release dates. Im a compassionate person but religious hatred is my sore spot.

I wont force Christianity on you if you dont try to force your atheism on me.

 

[Ausm]

Bill Maher is such a loser. First he tried comedy and failed. Then he tried game shows and got accidentally smacked in the face by Erik Estrada and went into a fetal position (glass chin). Then he finally turned to religious hatred producing one sided, lol worthy trash videos on Youtube to make a cheap buck from atheist extremists. He has scraped the bottom of the barrel.

The worst part is, one day he will not want to pay his last bill when it comes due - a trip to hell - for helping to turning people away from God.

Poor man, maybe he will wake up and embrace his Judaism or even Christianity before his final day. Death can come at any time and then its game over. :'(

A loser? He makes a living on Republican hypocrisy which really shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Retro Rob]

lol, now you're going to make a Free Speech argument?

No, just pointing out the irrationality in saying that it is irrational to share what one believes in.

You know, I don't like what you say, but I support your right to say it.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You mean do I forgive? Yes. And I am open to doing that but I dont think he is open to an apology. Over time I have have reconsidered people on ignore and released them before their scheduled release dates. Im a compassionate person but religious hatred is my sore spot.

I wont force Christianity on you if you dont try to force your atheism on me.

I thought I asked a simple question. Anyway, if anti-Christian bigotry is your sore spot....I believe you may be in the wrong place as P&N is rife with it.

Thank you for not "forcing" your understanding of Christianity on me. Any effort on your part would only be wasting your time.

And lastly, I'm not an atheist and you may want to reexamine how you came to that conclusion.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I thought I asked a simple question. Anyway, if anti-Christian bigotry is your sore spot....I believe you may be in the wrong place as P&N is rife with it.

Thank you for not "forcing" your understanding of Christianity on me. Any effort on your part would only be wasting your time. And lastly, I'm not an atheist and you may want to reexamine how you came to that conclusion.

After leaving that response I wondered if you would think, that I thought, you were atheist. I know you are not. I meant those that are and those that do try to force atheism upon me. I just used your response as an opportunity to explain that.

There is bigotry and then there is downright hatred. Ive dealt with both over the last 13 years on Anandtech. I used to be a quite confrontational back around 2002 but then learned that was not the right approach. It turns people off and stops communication. I try give people a lot of leeway.

 

[LunarRay]

Imagine if you were an idiot savant of all the types there are and had full access to all your faculties, that you could open all the doors to all the functions your brain can perform, but you did it all without any effort and just knew.

You might be able to sail up the Mekong Delta in war time by navigating a course you were sure to survive or God knows what else.

Perhaps...

I'd suspect that one must never doubt the choice one made and one simply moves on from that to the next bit... IOW, now is always upon us in intervals so small that to doubt what was affects what is now and the course has changed from what would have been... Seems to me, anyhow.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

After leaving that response I wondered if you would think, that I thought, you were atheist. I know you are not. I meant those that are and those that do try to force atheism upon me. I just used your response as an opportunity to explain that.

Most of us know that forcing one's beliefs on others is impossible. People are either interested in honest discussion or they aren't. If you're unable to honestly answer honest challenges to your beliefs where are you? You put them on ignore and walk away? Or perhaps do you attempt to reconcile your beliefs with reality when it presents itself? This is very difficult for many Christians. The perfect example is evolution and the creation story. For some reason many Christians desperately want to believe that the creation story is literal. I don't get this as these passages scream allegory. Anyway..to me...it's all about being honest with one's self.

There is bigotry and then there is downright hatred. Ive dealt with both over the last 13 years on Anandtech. I used to be a quite confrontational back around 2002 but then learned that was not the right approach. It turns people off and stops communication. I try give people a lot of leeway.

Yes...there is bigotry and downright hatred. Yes...it's ugly but you really don't have much choice other than getting used to it. And I'm glad you learned that being confrontational is not the right approach. I'm probably one of the worst communicators on this planet (I blame my engineer gene)...but it does seem to me that it works best if one tries to talk 'with' people instead of 'at' people. Thanks for giving me leeway. Peace.

 

[LunarRay]

But if so, you can imagine, I hope, why those who don't have it might be a bit upset that they can't be convinced to by something that approached logic, or why you, might just prefer not to pay too much attention to what they would call logic, no? It would seem, in short, that believers can be said to have a motivation to believe and deniers a motivation not to. It would also explain the fascination each has for the other and why both sides argue and why also, a third alternative never sees the light of day.

I'd think one cannot 'see' using the eyes of another. That what one does see using their 'eyes' is always at least a bit different than what another sees using their eyes as they gaze upon the same thing.

We may agree that some Mathematical equation produces an universally accepted outcome but that is really a limited understanding... Limited by the language of the Mathematics. When freed from limits the mind can see to infinity but that too will always be construed to mean what the mind is programed by what ever force does the programming to interpret its truth. Each, therefore, can see Truth as each alows itself to be confronted by Truth.
Truth, however, is fixed and universal.