Saudi Arabia captures, tortures and dismembers critic of Muhammad bin Salman

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
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Saudi Arabia very reform. Much human rights.



This is supposedly how it went down: Kasshogi was lured to the Saudi embassy in Turkey in order to obtain documents for his marriage. He arrived at the Saudi Embassy and went inside. He was tied up, tortured and eventually killed. 2 Diplomatic jets arrived carrying 15 Saudi Diplomats (agents) who brought with them a bone saw and 15 Diplomatic bags. Kasshogi was chopped into 15 pieces each of roughly 15lbs and was then smuggled out of the country in pieces.

XCWFJMZ.jpg



https://www.newsweek.com/turkey-believes-missing-journalist-killed-cut-saudi-consulate-1158976
 
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FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
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I don't see anything about this in P&N. You're welcome to link the thread if you like but I've seen no discussion of this hilarious story.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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Yeah I take it back. It must have been imbedded in another thread.

Mea culpa. Carry on!

Original post edited for accuracy.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
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Trump did speak about it. He said Saudi Arabia should investigate themselves. I'm 99% sure that's what will actually happen.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,284
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This is only the beginning of this story. The point I find significant is that the CIA had intelligence the guy was in danger and didn't warn him and had an obligation to. That means that Trump prevented the CIA from warning the journalist and participated in his murder. Unfortunately, as we know, murder for the Republican congress is not an impeachable offense.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
25,946
23,711
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Op's masters use nerve agents or radioactive elements instead when they want to try and get rid of critics.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,793
32,491
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This is between the Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

None of our business.

Basically a matter of time at this point before the Arabs and Russians start offing people on US soil who are inconvenient for them.

This, like Russia’s, actions demand consequences be imposed.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,251
4,385
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Basically a matter of time at this point before the Arabs and Russians start offing people on US soil who are inconvenient for them.

This, like Russia’s, actions demand consequences be imposed.

Suggestions?
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,800
8,999
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This is between the Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

None of our business.

Except, our intelligence agencies are still operating under a 2015 directive that they have a duty to warn anyone when they receive intelligence of a credible threat to that person. They don't even have to be a US citizen, though in this case Khashoggi was a US resident with the intention of becoming a citizen.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,251
4,385
136
Except, our intelligence agencies are still operating under a 2015 directive that they have a duty to warn anyone when they receive intelligence of a credible threat to that person. They don't even have to be a US citizen, though in this case Khashoggi was a US resident with the intention of becoming a citizen.

Do you have a factual link where the CIA Knew of the murder setup prior to the actual murder?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
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Basically a matter of time at this point before the Arabs and Russians start offing people on US soil who are inconvenient for them.

This, like Russia’s, actions demand consequences be imposed.


Except, our intelligence agencies are still operating under a 2015 directive that they have a duty to warn anyone when they receive intelligence of a credible threat to that person. They don't even have to be a US citizen, though in this case Khashoggi was a US resident with the intention of becoming a citizen.

Do as I say not as I do, it's OK for the CIA to use rendition and take out enemies of the state with drones on foreign soil , the occasional wedding party not withstanding, but if other countries do it their way then it's a no no?

https://news.antiwar.com/2018/09/09...rise-in-africa-strikes-expected-to-come-soon/
CIA Drone Flights on the Rise in Africa, Strikes Expected to Come Soon
Early in President Obama’s time in office, CIA drone strikes became hugely common and extremely controversial. The large-scale killing, done publicly but with the CIA refusing even basic transparency, was ultimately scaled back shortly before Obama left office, with a transfer of much of the drone campaign from the CIA to the Pentagon.

With growing focus on Africa, and the Pentagon not having a substantial existing infrastructure there, however, the CIA is making a comeback. After former CIA Director Mike Pompeo started pushing the matter with Trump, limits on CIA drone flights were scaled back.

Across Africa, but especially in Niger and Libya, CIA flights are soaring. Officials say that so far, they have mostly been surveillance flights, but lethal attacks are a virtual certainty, and very soon, because of growing CIA interest in attacks in southern Libya.

A key factor in this shift was the Niger ambush incident, in which four US soldiers were killed. The US almost immediately started hectoring the Nigerien government for permission to use the drone base there for armed flights, as previously only surveillance was allowed. Niger gave in, and now the base that had been growing is launching armed US drones.

With President Trump pushing the Pentagon to be less and less transparent, the CIA resumption of drone killings will lead to even more opacity, as fatal drone strikes will be able to be unreported by both sides, leaving it uncertain which actually carried out any specific attack.

https://www.opensocietyfoundations....-extraordinary-rendition-and-secret-detention

20 Extraordinary Facts about CIA Extraordinary Rendition and Secret Detention

After the attacks against the United States of September 11, 2001, the Central Intelligence Agency conspired with dozens of governments to build a secret extraordinary rendition and detention program that spanned the globe. Extraordinary rendition is the transfer—without legal process—of a detainee to the custody of a foreign government for purposes of detention and interrogation.

The program was intended to protect America. But, as described in the Open Society Justice Initiative’s new report, it stripped people of their most basic rights, facilitated gruesome forms of torture, at times captured the wrong people, and debased the United States’ human rights reputation world-wide.

To date, the United States and the vast majority of the other governments involved—more than 50 in all—have refused to acknowledge their participation, compensate the victims, or hold accountable those most responsible for the program and its abuses. Here are 20 additional facts from the new report that expose just how brutal and mistaken the program was:

  1. At least 136 individuals were reportedly extraordinarily rendered or secretly detained by the CIA and at least 54 governments reportedly participated in the CIA’s secret detention and extraordinary rendition program; classified government documents may reveal many more.
  2. A series of Department of Justice memoranda authorized torture methods that the CIA applied on detainees. The Bush Administration referred to these methods as “enhanced interrogation techniques.” “Enhanced interrogation techniques” included “walling” (quickly pulling the detainee forward and then thrusting him against a flexible false wall), “water dousing,” “waterboarding,” “stress positions” (forcing the detainee to remain in body positions designed to induce physical discomfort), “wall standing” (forcing the detainee to remain standing with his arms outstretched in front of him so that his fingers touch a wall five four to five feet away and support his entire body weight), “cramped confinement” in a box, “insult slaps,” (slapping the detainee on the face with fingers spread), “facial hold” (holding a detainee’s head temporarily immobile during interrogation with palms on either side of the face), “attention grasp” (grasping the detainee with both hands, one hand on each side of the collar opening, and quickly drawing him toward the interrogator), forced nudity, sleep deprivation while being vertically shackled, and dietary manipulation.
  3. President Bush has stated that about a hundred detainees were held under the CIA secret detention program, about a third of whom were questioned using “enhanced interrogation techniques.”
  4. The CIA’s Office of Inspector General has reportedly investigated a number of “erroneous renditions” in which the CIA had abducted and detained the wrong people. A CIA officer told the Washington Post: “They picked up the wrong people, who had no information. In many, many cases there was only some vague association” with terrorism.
  5. German national Khaled El-Masri was seized in Macedonia because he had been mistaken for an Al Qaeda suspect with a similar name. He was held incommunicado and abused in Macedonia and in secret CIA detention in Afghanistan. On December 13, 2012, the European Court of Human Rights held that Macedonia had violated El-Masri’s rights under the European Convention on Human Rights, and found that his ill-treatment by the CIA at Skopje airport in Macedonia amounted to torture.
  6. Wesam Abdulrahman Ahmed al-Deemawi was seized in Iran and held for 77 days in the CIA’s “Dark Prison” in Afghanistan. He was later held in Bagram for 40 days and subjected to sleep deprivation, hung from the ceiling by his arms in the “strappado” position, threatened by dogs, made to watch torture videos, and subjected to sounds of electric sawing accompanied by cries of pain.
  7. Several former interrogators and counterterrorism experts have confirmed that “coercive interrogation” is ineffective. Col. Steven Kleinman, Jack Cloonan, and Matthew Alexander stated in a letter to Congress that that U.S. interrogation policy “came with heavy costs” and that “[k]ey allies, in some instances, refused to share needed intelligence, terrorists attacks increased world wide, and Al Qaeda and like-minded groups recruited a new generation of Jihadists.”
  8. After being extraordinarily rendered by the United States to Egypt in 2002, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, under threat of torture at the hands of Egyptian officials, fabricated information relating to Iraq’s provision of chemical and biological weapons training to Al Qaeda. In 2003, then Secretary of State Colin Powell relied on this fabricated information in his speech to the United Nations that made the case for war against Iraq.
  9. Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded at least 83 times by the CIA. FBI interrogator Ali Soufan testified before Congress that he elicited “actionable intelligence” from Zubaydah using rapport-building techniques but that Zubaydah “shut down” after he was waterboarded.
  10. Torture is prohibited in all circumstances under international law and allegations of torture must be investigated and criminally punished. The United States prosecuted Japanese interrogators for “waterboarding” U.S. prisoners during World War II.
  11. On November 20, 2002, Gul Rahman froze to death in a secret CIA prison in Afghanistan called the “Salt Pit,” after a CIA case officer ordered guards to strip him naked, chain him to the concrete floor, and leave him there overnight without blankets.
  12. Fatima Bouchar was abused by the CIA, and by persons believed to be Thai authorities, for several days in the Bangkok airport. Bouchar reported she was chained to a wall and not fed for five days, at a time when she was four-and-a-half months pregnant. After that she was extraordinarily rendered to Libya.
  13. Syria was one of the “most common destinations for rendered suspects,” as were Egypt and Jordan. One Syrian prison facility contained individual cells that were roughly the size of coffins. Detainees report incidents of torture involving a chair frame used to stretch the spine (the “German chair”) and beatings.
  14. Muhammed al-Zery and Ahmed Agiza, while seeking asylum in Sweden, were extraordinarily rendered to Egypt where they were tortured with shocks to their genitals. Al-Zery was also forced to lie on an electrified bed frame.
  15. Abu Omar, an Italian resident, was abducted from the streets of Milan, extraordinarily rendered to Egypt, and secretly detained for fourteen months while Egyptian agents interrogated and tortured him by subjecting him to electric shocks. An Italian court convicted in absentia 22 CIA agents and one Air Force pilot for their roles in the extraordinary rendition of Abu Omar.
  16. Known black sites—secret prisons run by the CIA on foreign soil—existed in Afghanistan, Lithuania, Morocco, Poland, Romania, and Thailand.
  17. Abd al Rahim al Nashiri was secretly detained in various black sites. While secretly detained in Poland, U.S. interrogators subjected al Nashiri to a mock execution with a power drill as he stood naked and hooded; racked a semi-automatic handgun close to his head as he sat shackled before them; held him in “standing stress positions;” and threatened to bring in his mother and sexually abuse her in front of him.
  18. President Obama’s 2009 Executive Order repudiating torture does not repudiate the CIA extraordinary rendition program. It was specifically crafted to preserve the CIA’s authority to detain terrorist suspects on a short-term, transitory basis prior to rendering them to another country for interrogation or trial.
  19. President Obama’s 2009 Executive Order also established an interagency task force to review interrogation and transfer policies and issue recommendations on “the practices of transferring individuals to other nations.” The interagency task force report was issued in 2009, but continues to be withheld from the public. It appears that the U.S. intends to continue to rely on anti-torture diplomatic assurances from recipient countries and post-transfer monitoring of detainee treatment, but those methods were not effective safeguards against torture for Maher Arar, who was tortured in Syria, or Ahmed Agiza and Muhammed al-Zery, who were tortured in Egypt.
  20. The Senate Select Intelligence Committee has completed a 6,000 page report that further details the CIA detention and interrogation operations with access to classified sources. In December, 2014, the committee released a redacted 525-page portion of the report, which included its key findings and an executive summary of the full report. The rest of the report remains classified. (Updated with publication of summary of SSIC report.)

 
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FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
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If MBS feels like he needs Saudi Washington Post reporters to be in little pieces, that's OK with me. Why is WaPo hiring Saudi citizens? What did this reporter report on? My guess is typical Neocon BS and anti-resistance axis BS.


I'm also glad he picked Turkey for the location to pull this stunt. All of it is quite hilarious. Even funnier is people claiming the CIA should "do something" in retaliation to "protect" America.

Let me tell you something about the CIA: They do way, way worse stuff than chopping up reporters. WAY worse. If you want Saudi Arabia prosecuted for this, then you should want every CIA agent in prison.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Basically a matter of time at this point before the Arabs and Russians start offing people on US soil who are inconvenient for them.

This, like Russia’s, actions demand consequences be imposed.

It is about time for us Americans to suffer for the actions of our government in other countries. We had a good, long run of killing whoever we wanted whenever we wanted and facing zero consequences. You are correct that this is a harbinger of things to come.


The fact that US reporters are being killed in NATO countries is a sign that soon we will have shitty American reporters killed on US soil by foreign governments. This would only be fair, as we have killed millions of foreign citizens to promote "freedom" and "democracy" over the last century. Hopefully we will learn our lessons. Class is now in session.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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Suggestions?

I think any other President, Republican or Democrat, would have already threatened to cancel any arms orders unless the Saudis can explain what happened to Mr. Khashoggi. No need to wait for Magnitsky sanctions.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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Do you have a factual link where the CIA Knew of the murder setup prior to the actual murder?

There is reporting that intelligence already knew of a rendition/detention plan, and that this intelligence had been widely disseminated. I don't think the CIA is in the business of making any public statements confirming or denying.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,350
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This is only the beginning of this story. The point I find significant is that the CIA had intelligence the guy was in danger and didn't warn him and had an obligation to. That means that Trump prevented the CIA from warning the journalist and participated in his murder. Unfortunately, as we know, murder for the Republican congress is not an impeachable offense.

Benghazi?
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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This is only the beginning of this story. The point I find significant is that the CIA had intelligence the guy was in danger and didn't warn him and had an obligation to. That means that Trump prevented the CIA from warning the journalist and participated in his murder. Unfortunately, as we know, murder for the Republican congress is not an impeachable offense.

I think it's a bit premature to say that Trump directly knew of this intelligence before the murder ...more likely he was informed thru intelligence after the fact and is now annoyed that the media is blowing this up and pushing him to confront his new bestie MBS.

Watch his body language in his first public statements, and then his most recent discussion with press, on video: first he speed mumbles "I knew nothing". Later, when asked about confronting Saudis, he has his arms crossed in a defensive position the whole time.

https://youtu.be/j_zOliSN4Ec
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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I think it's a bit premature to say that Trump directly knew of this intelligence before the murder ...more likely he was informed thru intelligence after the fact and is now annoyed that the media is blowing this up and pushing him to confront his new bestie MBS.

Watch his body language in his first public statements, and then his most recent discussion with press, on video: first he speed mumbles "I knew nothing". Later, when asked about confronting Saudis, he has his arms crossed in a defensive position the whole time.

https://youtu.be/j_zOliSN4Ec
Very liberal of you trying to read the most likely explanation Into the evidence that’s available to you. I skipped all that and went straight to what I want to believe. Trump has to be guilty of murder because I hate him. Have fun trying to change my mind.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,903
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This is between Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

None of our business.
Our support of Saudi Arabia makes it our business.

Also support for the rights of journalists is in the world's interest. SA gets a pass on this what makes you think other autocrats and dictators won't follow suit to a greater degree?
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,022
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This is between Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

None of our business.
The guy is a legal us resident. It's no different than you going over to England for a bit and then English government murdering you in secret.
Also it really is a massive problem for nation's that advocate free speech and democracy to not protect journalists.
 
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