SATA NCQ Compatability

Sigma1071

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Nov 2, 2004
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I am looking to build a new rig, but want to make sure I do not run into compatibility issues. I am considering buying the massive Maxtor HDD with 16MB cache and 300GB storage space. This drive is SATA 250 and supports native command queuing. I know that not all boards support NCQ. I am considering NF3 and K8T800. Can anyone tell me if either option will support NCQ or if I should just pass on the Maxtor and get a different drive?

Also, I'm told the some boards (perhaps just the NF3?) have poor SATA controllers. Apparently some require more processor power and are not recommended for overclocking. Can anyone shed some light on this matter and possibly recommend a board that will not have this problem?

Many thanks!
 

gobucks

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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Go for the maxtor - the NCQ is nice, but the real boost is from the 16MB cache. In fact, it is what allows the drive to give the Raptor some needed competition. Don't get me wrong, the raptor is still faster, but it's not leaps and bounds ahead like with other 7200RPM drives. It's the best drive you can get without severely sacrificing in the size department.

Anyways, in order to take advantage of NCQ, your mobo needs to specifically support it. Currently the only AMD mobo to support it is nForce4 (Ultra and SLI), which in fact supports full SATA-II. The K8T890 will also support it, but only with its upcoming VT8251 southbridge. The first K8T800 (pro and non-pro) boards all use the older VT8237 southbridge, and that doesn't support it. The only other option is to buy one of Intel's new LGA775 chipsets, which have NCQ but not SATA-II.

Personally, I'm gonna wait for NF4 so I can take full advantage of a Diamondmax 10 drive, but running it in an older SATA motherboard will still yield impressive results, and I think the drive is an exceptional value for the performance and size, with or without NCQ. NF4 boards are supposed to be in stores by the end of the month, but I guess worst case scenario they would still be out before christmas. I'd say that your best bet is for one of these, paired up with a 6600GT or X700XT video card. Of course, if you absolutely can't wait another minute, just make sure you get a board from the latest generation, i.e. NF3 250 (not the 150) or a K8T890 PRO (the earlier non-pro had no locks on its AGP/PCI bus speeds, which limited overclocking, and was particularly bad with SATA drives, due to their lower tolerance for working out of their normal frequency range.
 

Sigma1071

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Nov 2, 2004
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Thank you for the detailed reply! I have a new question now though. NF4 supports PCI express and will not support AGP, correct? I had my heart set on a 6800 GT. I do not think I could afford to buy that card anymore if I get the PCI express version. Can anyone comment on how a PCI express 6600 GT compares to a 6800 GT AGP 8x card?

Also, can anyone still comment on my original question about poor overclocking results due to certain SATA controllers?
 

gobucks

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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6600GT is slower, but it's still a damn good card. Put it at slightly faster than a 9800XT. It also holds up extremely well against the $300 6800NU, being slightly faster at low resolutions (higher fill rate), equal throughout the whole middle range, and a bit slower in eye candy mode (lower memory bandwidth). So you can use that as your basis of comparison. I'd say a 6600GT has about 60-70% of 6800GT performance, depending on the level of eye candy. Also, at $180 street, the 6600GT will save you enough money to upgrade to a better card in the future. When Longhorn's Aero Glass visual system finally hits PCs in 2006, you can take that $200 you saved and get yourself a brand new card with all the newest features (DX10, PS4.0, and better use of the PCIe bus, which will allow for the GPU to calculate more stuff, like physics models, due to increased upstream bandwidth). I'd much rather spend less knowing I have a great upgrade path, than to go all out just to be pissed off when I end up with a $400-500 equivalent of a 9800XT or 5950 Ultra, whose owners are likely rueing their purchases to this day. After all, with AGP, the selection of upgrades will likely be limited within a year or 2, while high-end PCIe cards currently have a $100 premium, making it pretty much a lose-lose situation on that end.

Anyways, as I was saying, the problems with SATA and overclocking stem from the fact that most IDE/SATA controllers are tied to the PCI bus, and when you overclock the PCI bus, you overclock the controllers. SATA is particularly succeptible to this, and drives often fail to funtion after just a few percent of overclocking. Early via boards lacked a mechanism for separating the PCI/AGP clock from the core clock, which meant it was impossible to overclock the bus without also overclocking the PCI/AGP, and in turn the SATA controller. nVidia boards had a PCI/AGP lock, and Via later got it working on their K8T800 Pro chipset, so if you get a more recent mobo, you should be fine. All the new nforce4 boards have a lock, by the way, so you can overclock to your hearts content (except the low end vanilla version, which has a fixed clock so you can't overclock). In fact, the new gigabyte board can overclock 100%, from 200MHz to 400MHz.
 

gobucks

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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Really? In the tests I've seen of the raptor, the TCQ seemed to provide a nice boost. I guess it just depends on what you are using it for. I think most review sites of NCQ have said it's faster in some things, slower in others, but most also said that their systems felt a bit more responsive, kinda like the feeling with hyperthreading, plus I imagine that like hyperthreading, performance will go up over time as it becomes more widely used.

Anyways, the DM10 and Raptor both rock with or without CQ, so I say go for one of these drives for the out of the box performance, and just try turning CQ on and off and see which seems faster on average to you.
 

Thermalrock

Senior member
Oct 30, 2004
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i read that either on anandtech or storagereview. maybe ill go link it when im bored the next time.
 

arswihart

Senior member
Jul 16, 2001
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it was regarding tcq, not ncq, in the storage review article, is there a good look at ncq's effect anywhere?