Sarah Palin Cleared of Ethics Charges

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: shurato
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

I find associations such as these more vile and noteworthy than comparing to the loose associations of obama with ayers serving on some education board together.

ummm Let's think about this...

Palin worked hand in hand with a guy who has been in the Senate since 1968.

Obama worked hand in hand with a guy who was trying to kill cops and soldiers in 1968.

Which one is more problematic?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: counterstrikedude ~~~~

look, im not here to persuade. i tell you the facts,

I LOL'ed ....

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Obama worked hand in hand with a guy who was trying to kill cops and soldiers in 1968.

From Wikipedia:

Obama-Ayers Controversy
Bill Ayers and Barack Obama at one time lived in the same neighborhood in the city of Chicago, and both had worked on education reform in the state of Illinois. The two met "at a luncheon meeting about school reform."[46] Obama was named to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Project Board of Directors to oversee the distribution of grants in Chicago. Later in 1995, Ayers hosted "a coffee" for "Mr. Obama's first run for office."[46] The two served on the board of a community anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 2000 and 2002, during which time the board met 12 times.[46] In April 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate.[47] Since 2002, there has been little linking Obama and Ayers.[46] Obama said in September 2008 that he hadn't "seen him in a year-and-a-half."[48] In February 2008, Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement from the senator about the relationship between the two: "Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous."[47]CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the non-profit projects in which the two men were involved.[49] Internal reviews by The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time magazine, The Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic "have said that their reporting does not support the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship".[50] William C. Ibershof, the lead federal prosecutor of the Weather Underground case has stated, "I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers?s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child."

No one who has investigated the "relationship" between Obama and Ayers - and it has been THOROUGHLY investigated by numerous news organizations - has found ANYTHING wrong.

So, again, please tell us what is such a cause for concern in Obama's relationship with Ayers that you and the rest of the right bring it up over and over and over again, ad nauseum? What, specifically, has Obama done wrong vis-a-vis Ayers. What anti-American acts has Obama committed?

Let me guess. Your response is, "He had a relationship with Ayers."

You're pathetic.

 

[L00PY]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: shurato
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

I find associations such as these more vile and noteworthy than comparing to the loose associations of obama with ayers serving on some education board together.

ummm Let's think about this...

Palin worked hand in hand with a guy who has been in the Senate since 1968.

Obama worked hand in hand with a guy who was trying to kill cops and soldiers in 1968.

Which one is more problematic?

What's problematic is the use of "hand in hand" above. By your use, it's an undeniable fact that McCain worked "hand in hand" with a convict who felt that listening to Hitler's speeches "made me feel a strength inside I had never known before," planned to firebomb the Brookings Institution in DC, planned the kidnapping of US citizens and transporting them internationally, and as recently as the 90s was telling people to shoot government agents in the head as they wear bulletproof vests. G. Gordon Liddy is as bad a figure as Ayers, if not worse.

Guilt by association is a tenuous thing. Much clearer and revealing would be the time frame, the candidates' positions on matters and the figure's in question, and how strong that association really is. Let's take this latest Palin problem for example:

1. Palin claims to be an anti-corruption crusader in Alaska / Stevens has been convicted on all seven counts he's been charged with. (Problematic due to its hypocrisy.)
   
   This 527 has been called "an example of the fine legal line between a legal effort to conduct political activity and then-new prohibitions against raising unlimited soft-money." (Problematic due to shared ethical issues.)
   
   Palin held a joint news conference with Stevens "in July 2008, before he was indicted, to make clear she had not abandoned him politically." (Problematic due to its recency and direct association with the problems in question.)
   
   Palin filmed a campaign commercial together with Stevens. (Problematic due to closeness and its recency.)

So Palin's association here runs contrary to her public position, the group she was director of is questionable ethically, and she held news conferences and filmed commercials with him very recently.

Let's look at comparable McCain/Liddy and Obama/Ayers points now:

1. I'm not aware of any common political stance held by McCain and Liddy, nor any shared by Obama and Ayers, that is a glaring sign of hypocrisy.
   
   I presume McCain has disavowed Liddy's criminal acts. Obama has disavowed Ayers criminal acts. As an actor and as a radio show host, Liddy is more or less mainstream now. As a college professor, Ayers is mainstream now. (No huge ethical issues now.)
   
   McCain's friendship with the Liddy included being the recipient of a fund raiser at the convict's house a decade ago. Obama associate with Ayers included being the recipient of a political coming out party over a decade ago. (A bit problematic but both occurring a relatively long time ago.)
   
   Liddy has referred to McCain as "an old friend." At worst, Obama and Ayers are acquaintances, and there's no indication that they're friends. (McCain and Liddy are admittedly much closer than Obama and Ayers.)

The degrees of separation between Palin and Stevens are next to nothing as the two are quite close. Those between McCain and Liddy are more distant, and those between Obama and Ayers are even more distant.

 

[shurato]

Loopy, well put couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[dmcowen674]

Matt Lauer was invited to interview her in Alaska, it's on NBC tonight.

McCain on Jay Leno tonight too. Leno is not happy Republicans lost unlike Letterman.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: shurato
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

I find associations such as these more vile and noteworthy than comparing to the loose associations of obama with ayers serving on some education board together.

ummm Let's think about this...

Palin worked hand in hand with a guy who has been in the Senate since 1968.

Obama worked hand in hand with a guy who was trying to kill cops and soldiers in 1968.

Which one is more problematic?

PJ: What do you base your assertion that the Weathermen were trying to kill cops and soldiers in 1968? That is totally contrary to what I remember. I don't sympathize with the Weathermen, but their tactics were to attack government buildings and institutions to try to change USA. They always phoned in warnings and timed their bombings to avoid casualities, and there were remarkably few casualities (three total, in all the anti-war/Weatherman bombings, I think). They never ever targeted soldiers to the best of my knowledge. I think you are mischaracterizing history greatly, just as Ms. Palin did by calling the Weathermen domestic terrorists. They pursued violent methods to seek their ends, but were hardly terrorists like the Oklahoma bombers or OBL.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: shurato
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

I find associations such as these more vile and noteworthy than comparing to the loose associations of obama with ayers serving on some education board together.

ummm Let's think about this...

Palin worked hand in hand with a guy who has been in the Senate since 1968.

Obama worked hand in hand with a guy who was trying to kill cops and soldiers in 1968.

Which one is more problematic?

There was a moronic drunk woman ranting about the Obama/Ayers connection in the sports bar of the cruise ship where I watched the election results. Even the McCain supporters rolled their eyes and told her to STFU. Too bad you weren't there too.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: shurato
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

I find associations such as these more vile and noteworthy than comparing to the loose associations of obama with ayers serving on some education board together.

ummm Let's think about this...

Palin worked hand in hand with a guy who has been in the Senate since 1968.

Obama worked hand in hand with a guy who was trying to kill cops and soldiers in 1968.

Which one is more problematic?

PJ: What do you base your assertion that the Weathermen were trying to kill cops and soldiers in 1968? That is totally contrary to what I remember. I don't sympathize with the Weathermen, but their tactics were to attack government buildings and institutions to try to change USA. They always phoned in warnings and timed their bombings to avoid casualities, and there were remarkably few casualities (three total, in all the anti-war/Weatherman bombings, I think). They never ever targeted soldiers to the best of my knowledge. I think you are mischaracterizing history greatly, just as Ms. Palin did by calling the Weathermen domestic terrorists. They pursued violent methods to seek their ends, but were hardly terrorists like the Oklahoma bombers or OBL.

Regardless of Obama's ties to them, claiming that the weathermen were anything other than domestic terrorists is a bit of a stretch, and a little sickening.

 

[Thump553]

OK, JD50 I'll bite-explain to me how the weathermen were (notice past tense) terrorists. They were self styled revolutionaries whose goal was to start a revolution in America. They thought bombing a few draft centers and other government buildings would inspire the masses to revolution-it's amazing how deluded thoughts can become in a college bull session.

Personally I think the Administration has misused the term "terrorist" almost as much as it has 9/11.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Thump553
OK, JD50 I'll bite-explain to me how the weathermen were (notice past tense) terrorists. They were self styled revolutionaries whose goal was to start a revolution in America. They thought bombing a few draft centers and other government buildings would inspire the masses to revolution-it's amazing how deluded thoughts can become in a college bull session.

Personally I think the Administration has misused the term "terrorist" almost as much as it has 9/11.

they sound very much like the people who bomb abortion clinics.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Thump553
OK, JD50 I'll bite-explain to me how the weathermen were (notice past tense) terrorists. They were self styled revolutionaries whose goal was to start a revolution in America. They thought bombing a few draft centers and other government buildings would inspire the masses to revolution-it's amazing how deluded thoughts can become in a college bull session.

Personally I think the Administration has misused the term "terrorist" almost as much as it has 9/11.

they sound very much like the people who bomb abortion clinics.

So...I guess it wouldn't a big deal to you if Sarah Palin hung out with known abortion clinics bombers? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: shurato
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

I find associations such as these more vile and noteworthy than comparing to the loose associations of obama with ayers serving on some education board together.

What the heck is so vile about a 527 group?

Their stated purpose seems very benign:

The group was designed to serve as a political boot camp for Republican women in the state. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings.

527's are authorized by law, everybody uses them.

Are you equating Repub women with Ayers and the Weathermen?

Fern

 

[shurato]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: shurato
Palin Was a Director of Embattled Sen. Stevens's 527 Group

I find associations such as these more vile and noteworthy than comparing to the loose associations of obama with ayers serving on some education board together.

What the heck is so vile about a 527 group?

Their stated purpose seems very benign:

The group was designed to serve as a political boot camp for Republican women in the state. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings.

527's are authorized by law, everybody uses them.

Are you equating Repub women with Ayers and the Weathermen?

Fern

I never said 527 groups were vile. But associations such as the one depicted in this article are not the least bit suspicious to you? You want to quote that one line and make your conlusions then that's fine but the rest of the article seem to shed a little more light.

Board members of Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service were legally allowed to raise as much money as they wanted from corporations or unions or unlimited donations from individuals -- all of which would have been illegal for Stevens to do himself.

At the time Stevens revealed the existence of the 527 group -- a type of independent political corporation named for its the section of the tax code -- ethics experts questioned whether it was appropriate.

Perhaps the word "vile" was a bit overdramatic but this smells a bit rotten to me.