Originally posted by: Atreus21
Oh okay. So people who were gay and sincerely believe they turned straight are either lying or deluding themselves.
Basically, they're only gay if we say they are, and if we say they are, they can't turn straight again, because according to our definition that's impossible.
This is sheer foolishness.
Only if by this you mean your own post's position.
You should do some research before opening your mouth. Are you aware that the social stigma against gays - and that's greatly magnified in a powerful church culture - causes huge pressure on many gay people to not want to be gay, to try not to be gay? I've read countless stories of the extreme tensions, the agony of them trying not to feel the attractions they feel. A lot of them marry the opposite sex either trying to pretend, or to hope it'll 'fix' them. Many of them desperately want to be 'fixed' because of the pressure.
And this is a big reason the suicide rate among teen gays who are dealing with this is sky high.
I've personally known women who were devastated by divorces from marriages with gay men who were trying to be 'straight', sometimes with religious connections.
If a gun were held to your head, would you be able to commit a gay sex act? As far as arousal, as disgusting as it might sound, think about the physical side - a hand is a hand, a mouth is a mouth, and when you really want it to work, like gays who want to not be gay do, it can 'work'. Gays are often doing something similar.
As I've said from the OP, I'm talking about gays generally, and there are exceptions, as human sexuality is a complicated thing, affected by many factors.
But that doesn't change that there is an issue of homosexuality as a natural condition and the issue of what's moral, just, fair for people who are homosexual.
As for your statement that people who think they've successfull undergone 'coversion therapy - well, do some research into that and see how well it workd long term. With the sprectrum of human sexuality, there are a variety of situations, from some who may have had 'confused sexuality' with environmental pressures, to some who indeed are under pressure and want to think they've 'changed', to those who benefit from 'conditioning', to the many who 'revert' and say it never worked, etc.
You should read some real research on the issue, not just your off the cuff speculation.
On conditioning, I'll mention an anecdote, some radio show with 'Dr. Drew' on sex had a vet call in and say that his time in Iraq had something involving him being around latrines where now back at home, he could only become sexually aroused if the smell of feces were present, and he was worried about how to get 'fixed'. Dr. Drew said that it was a common type of situation where environmental conditioning happens - things get linked to arousal that affect a person - and it'd almost certainly wear off within months.
When someone subjects themself to a program using conditioning and intense methods that use current sexuality research to try to force a change in sexual orientation, of course it can have some effect (I wonder how well a reverse program might work, but it's never been tried). But that's far from proving that 'homosexuality is just a choice' and that this 'therapy', an innocent sounding word that doesn't mean just saying "now, think about it, why do you want the same sex, not a pretty girl", actually 'cures' the 'problem'.
What's sad is how these poor victims of societal (broad or church or family) pressure are put through this, and how the bigots abuse science to try to get the political result wanted.