annoyed....
they now have dual DVI.
the old sapphire 7850s had single DVI with displayport... oh well.
they now have dual DVI.
the old sapphire 7850s had single DVI with displayport... oh well.
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RussianSensation
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NV isn't offering better perf/$ in BF3 though. Nothing beats a $320 MSI TF3 with an overclock in that game for bang for the buck on the high-end. At 1.15ghz it will beat a GTX680.
There was even bench where HD7950 at 1.25ghz smoked the 680 by 10% in BF3 at 2560x1600 4AA. $320 > $500 card. :thumbsup:
NV has nothing worth buying other than GTX670/680 Lightning and 660Ti is shaping up to be a non-competitor against an overclocked 7950 once you turn on AA due to crippled 192-bit bus and gimped 24 ROPs.
lolz
Those cards all suck for value though.
Painful to see them recommend over older cheaper models that can provide nearly double the stock performance at 2/3rds the cost of a 7950.
OP doesn't even have a 1600 screen come on man, he's got a $110 processor let's get back to reality.
Those cards all suck for value though.
Painful to see them recommend over older cheaper models that can provide nearly double the stock performance at 2/3rds the cost of a 7950.
OP doesn't even have a 1600 screen come on man, he's got a $110 processor let's get back to reality.
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so what your saying is waste all my money on a new system and keep the same HD 4870 and be in the same situation which is very ignorant ?
No, I'm saying you should sell your 4100 and $50 board, then use that money to get a more well rounded system - including a gpu upgrade.
As Silver pointed out 470s are a good option for a budget build, I just put together a i3-540 system with 470 SLI for $235 total cost, while I wouldn't use it for BF3 due to dual core limiting me much like a 4100 (and I have a main rig for that type of game), I would use it for several other titles. Considering the entire system costs less than a single 7950 there is good value in it.
What I'm really trying to tell you is if you're a budget minded person who enjoys getting good value from your purchases buying a new overpriced gpu such as the 7950 is a bad idea. When you're on a budget and want the best bang for your buck, you need to think outside what is common for people around here. Most of the people here have a lot of money to spend on their systems, cost isn't important at all and figuring out ways to deal with heat output are typically ignored as they place their system inside $250+ cases.
Your biggest hindrance right now is your platform, it's pretty low rent and there are not a lot of options for you. IMO once again, going for a $160 platform build then tossing in a $315 graphics card is so wrong it's not even funny.
You really can't beat the last gen used market right now with current with modern cards, they're just not fast enough and far too overpriced to do that.
42 fps for $315 on just the card is painful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLrPmLaVREE
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Silver was being sarcastic and my my 4100 isn't limited in BF3 smh ? like i said before don't like AMD so try something else 
? the video is pointless as your flying i could get 100 FPS doing that lmao ?
? the video is pointless as your flying i could get 100 FPS doing that lmao ?Of course he was, what else would he be?
It's not like he can compete with a $105 470 on actual merit, or two for $210, that leaves only sarcasm.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1285150/evga-gtx-470/0_100
You're at 80% usage you won't hit 100% because you have background tasks with windows, you're almost capped at just 40 fps with nothing going on. I've already experienced where you're going. I was just trying to save you the frustration, good luck though it's your money
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBxwG5uhKwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtLEOQ0B_YE
Edit: Feel free to fraps your current setup and let me know how that goes, you should have plenty of cpu headroom to compress on the fly.
It's not like he can compete with a $105 470 on actual merit, or two for $210, that leaves only sarcasm.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1285150/evga-gtx-470/0_100
You're at 80% usage you won't hit 100% because you have background tasks with windows, you're almost capped at just 40 fps with nothing going on. I've already experienced where you're going. I was just trying to save you the frustration, good luck though it's your money
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBxwG5uhKwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtLEOQ0B_YE
Edit: Feel free to fraps your current setup and let me know how that goes, you should have plenty of cpu headroom to compress on the fly.
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No mention of SLI issues and on a low vram card that can't even handle AA at 1080p in new games??
What exactly is the point in getting theorectical uber performance if it can't be applied (or u have to sacrifice visuals to get the perf, then its self defeating)? Then you get to deal with the awesome noise (how much did that water setup cost??) and power draw, OC 470s don't exactly sip power you should know this. Suggesting this to someone for a new rig is not only silly, it's irresponsible.
How about they spend $310 for a cool and quiet 7950 and OC that instead, and enjoy games with AA and not have to put up with a slideshow due to vram limits.
What exactly is the point in getting theorectical uber performance if it can't be applied (or u have to sacrifice visuals to get the perf, then its self defeating)? Then you get to deal with the awesome noise (how much did that water setup cost??) and power draw, OC 470s don't exactly sip power you should know this. Suggesting this to someone for a new rig is not only silly, it's irresponsible.
How about they spend $310 for a cool and quiet 7950 and OC that instead, and enjoy games with AA and not have to put up with a slideshow due to vram limits.
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really smart to link sp videos lol ?Of course he was, what else would he be?
It's not like he can compete with a $105 470 on actual merit, or two for $210, that leaves only sarcasm.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1285150/evga-gtx-470/0_100
You're at 80% usage you won't hit 100% because you have background tasks with windows, you're almost capped at just 40 fps with nothing going on. I've already experienced where you're going. I was just trying to save you the frustration, good luck though it's your money
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBxwG5uhKwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtLEOQ0B_YE
Edit: Feel free to fraps your current setup and let me know how that goes, you should have plenty of cpu headroom to compress on the fly.
Never had any, why would I mention what I haven't experienced when what matters in this thread is BF3 of which I've had none either.
You know of another game that uses more vram at 1080p than BF3? 1.28GB works fine for BF3, worked fine for modded Skyrim, worked fine for every other game I've played released this year or last, was there a secret new one I wasn't aware of that required more than 1.28GB of vram @ 1080p?
Covered that in the first part, not sure what games you're playing that require 3GB for 1080p but let me know I'll be sure to test that.
Noise is less than a overclocked 7950 if you're counting water cooling, far less, dead silent and you have a lot more options on dealing with heat dump. You can dump it pretty much anywhere you want, including not in your room unlike the on air 7950 which is going to produce over 250w once overclocked. Let's not forget what a tragic choice the 7950 OC is compared to the 670/680 when you start talking about power usage.
If you're talking on air just setup a profile, it's not rocket science. You have other options besides "Pay 2 Win" in the current market. I mean assuming of course you know what you're doing. You can find non reference cards like the SOC or AMP! with silent coolers as well, many are capable of running very high overclocks while having similar noise profiles to non reference overclocked 7950s which don't sip power either.
$310 on gpu, for a platform that costs $150 on a notoriously bad CPU... Is what if not irresponsible?
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We switched to talking about gpu power, which isn't really more or less compared to MP v SP, MP was brought up because of your CPU not because it changes GPU rendering load.
My i5-2500k is clocked at 5.4GHz, there would be no reason for me to compare it your processor as there no comparison there obviously.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
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You can't just look at the price of a CPU and assume it's bad. Are you saying you wouldn't pair a Core i5 2500K @ 4.5ghz with $900 HD7970 CF because that CPU only costs $160 at MC?
Your advice has no solution since the OP doesn't want an Intel platform. AMD has nothing worth upgrading to from FX4100 @ 4.2ghz. Why waste $ on a 7850 when 7950 is much faster and pays for itself with bitcoin mining?
You are all about value and that's great but until AMD has a much faster processor out, what's your solution to the OP exactly?
Your advice has no solution since the OP doesn't want an Intel platform. AMD has nothing worth upgrading to from FX4100 @ 4.2ghz. Why waste $ on a 7850 when 7950 is much faster and pays for itself with bitcoin mining?
You are all about value and that's great but until AMD has a much faster processor out, what's your solution to the OP exactly?
lol, is that what you think I'm doing? Do you not follow cpu's?
You're right, as I already pointed out awhile ago.
This has just been cleanup from the personal call outs and what not that took place after I pointed that out.
Given what he's said and his stance I believe you're right, I think he should get the 7950 to farm bits.
I can assure you, OC 7950s don't use anywhere near as much power as an OC pair of 470s.. or even 1 480 or a 580. I know because my PSU is happily driving an OC CPU and GPU, and other users with this same setup stall (there's a big thread on [H] form for this case/psu) when they try to get it to run with a 480/580, the latter, they had to undervolt to get it running.
But even then, consider: OC 7950 is faster (~10-15%) than the 7970 GE. Sure, your OC 470 SLI is a bit faster than gtx590... but look:
So you'd rather build a new rig NOW with sli 470s + water cool setup vs $310 great air cooling 7950??
What exactly do you gain from such a setup?? That you have to use 300W extra and spend large sums for water cooling. Because air cooled 470s aren't exactly known for their OC potential, besides being hot and loud.
But even then, consider: OC 7950 is faster (~10-15%) than the 7970 GE. Sure, your OC 470 SLI is a bit faster than gtx590... but look:
So you'd rather build a new rig NOW with sli 470s + water cool setup vs $310 great air cooling 7950??
What exactly do you gain from such a setup?? That you have to use 300W extra and spend large sums for water cooling. Because air cooled 470s aren't exactly known for their OC potential, besides being hot and loud.
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I can assure you it does.
Do you have a review showing the 7950 10-15% faster than the GHz edition 7970???
7950 @ 1200
470SLI
Help me with the maths...
470s are faster by
26% in test 1 or is it 35%
23% in test 2 or is it 30%
26% in test 3 or is it 35%
That's faster than your 1.125GHz card.
300w probably not, but even so not a big factor really. WC is pretty cheap, $120 kit - $50 block, $70 + two $45 blocks, you could set it up for $160 + the cost of the cards. I get mine pretty cheap but you can find them for $100 on the web.
For about $30 more you'd have a faster rig that ran cooler and allowed you to disipate heat someplace other than your case/room.
On air you'd probably shoot for either reference which isn't too bad but doesn't clock as well without sounding like a 7970 GHz edition, or get a AMP! or other non-reference cooled card like a TF2. They clock well, those AMP! cards hit 900 core on air.
We should take it to PMs though as I feel this thread has been addressed and the OP got a satisfactory answer.
I can see where you're coming from though, it's not a cut and dry situation because there are other factors and benefits for each.
It's not like we're talking about 5870 CF though, that's not even a discussion in modern titles.
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RussianSensation
Elite Member
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How did this thread get to include HD5870 CF and 900mhz GTX470 SLIs watercooled?
Seriously GTX470 SLI on air is not that fast because GTX470 has crippled texture performance and is already on life-support because of 1.28GB VRAM. You end up old cards that consume even more power than a 7970 and are soon to be crippled with 1.28GB of VRAM. They will have no resale value after and you have to deal with SLI micro-stutter vs. a single card. It's like throwing $200 into the garbage.
I had a 470s before and even at 760mhz, a stock 6950 mopped the floor with it in Crysis 1. I couldn't believe it. My 7970 is 2x faster than a GTX470 760mhz was in Crysis 1.
Even if you can get GTX470 for $100 now, add price of watercooling setup and you'd end up with worthless waterblocks. Most people won't even consider watercooling based on the hassle and costs involved. Not everyone wants to go through craiglist trying to find used waterblocks and parts. New blocks, pump and clamps would take the price of those used 470s way up there to $300 with ease.
Most people here would take a single-GPU than 2 cards in SLI or CF that deliver maybe 20% more performance over an overclocked 7950 on air. And if more and more games start to use > 1.28GB of VRAM, that $300+ watercooled GTX470 SLI setup will only be good for 1680x1050 4AA soon.
Balla I am calling it right now, once Metro Last Light launches, 2x GTX470 SLI 1.28GB will be worthless compared to an overclocked 7950. Most air cooled 470s can only reach 750-760mhz and at that speed they are only as fast as a stock 480. In some games a GTX470/GTX480 is as good as dead. This is from January 9, 2012 HD7970 review without OCing and no Cats 12.7 at play. Take an HD7950 @ 1.1ghz there and it's going to be way faster than a 925mhz 7970. GTX470 SLI won't beat it on air, sorry.
No point in trying to link Crysis 2 benchmarks with 900mhz+ Tri-SLI GTX470s because that's not how 99.9% of people are going to use them.
Also, the whole forum knows GTX470 is the best card ever made, we get it
Seriously GTX470 SLI on air is not that fast because GTX470 has crippled texture performance and is already on life-support because of 1.28GB VRAM. You end up old cards that consume even more power than a 7970 and are soon to be crippled with 1.28GB of VRAM. They will have no resale value after and you have to deal with SLI micro-stutter vs. a single card. It's like throwing $200 into the garbage.
I had a 470s before and even at 760mhz, a stock 6950 mopped the floor with it in Crysis 1. I couldn't believe it. My 7970 is 2x faster than a GTX470 760mhz was in Crysis 1.
Even if you can get GTX470 for $100 now, add price of watercooling setup and you'd end up with worthless waterblocks. Most people won't even consider watercooling based on the hassle and costs involved. Not everyone wants to go through craiglist trying to find used waterblocks and parts. New blocks, pump and clamps would take the price of those used 470s way up there to $300 with ease.
Most people here would take a single-GPU than 2 cards in SLI or CF that deliver maybe 20% more performance over an overclocked 7950 on air. And if more and more games start to use > 1.28GB of VRAM, that $300+ watercooled GTX470 SLI setup will only be good for 1680x1050 4AA soon.
Balla I am calling it right now, once Metro Last Light launches, 2x GTX470 SLI 1.28GB will be worthless compared to an overclocked 7950. Most air cooled 470s can only reach 750-760mhz and at that speed they are only as fast as a stock 480. In some games a GTX470/GTX480 is as good as dead. This is from January 9, 2012 HD7970 review without OCing and no Cats 12.7 at play. Take an HD7950 @ 1.1ghz there and it's going to be way faster than a 925mhz 7970. GTX470 SLI won't beat it on air, sorry.
No point in trying to link Crysis 2 benchmarks with 900mhz+ Tri-SLI GTX470s because that's not how 99.9% of people are going to use them.
Also, the whole forum knows GTX470 is the best card ever made, we get it
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Drivers. Here, a lower clocked 7950 is already getting 71fps in Crysis 2. If you want to push it as much as your 470 is pushed (lets not pretend its easy to reach), try 1.3ghz (also above average, but obtainable on custom air coolers), another 15% perf on top.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/his-radeon-hd-7950-iceq-turbo-review/23
Then try Max Payne 3 with MSAA, hows your sli470 score in that? It is cut and dry, because a brand new rig now with sli470 struggles with high AA in current games, it stand no chance in the future. Then you'd have to water cool it for additional expenses and its no longer cheaper. I'm being kind with the 300W, your 470 is heavily OC way way above stock 470/480 speed, and those weren't exactly known for sipping power.
Your setup is great for its time, but man let it go. It's way too hard to justify it for a new rig today. Let this be the last time we talk about sli470s as if its the second coming. Next time i'll just link back to this thread.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/his-radeon-hd-7950-iceq-turbo-review/23
Then try Max Payne 3 with MSAA, hows your sli470 score in that? It is cut and dry, because a brand new rig now with sli470 struggles with high AA in current games, it stand no chance in the future. Then you'd have to water cool it for additional expenses and its no longer cheaper. I'm being kind with the 300W, your 470 is heavily OC way way above stock 470/480 speed, and those weren't exactly known for sipping power.
Your setup is great for its time, but man let it go. It's way too hard to justify it for a new rig today. Let this be the last time we talk about sli470s as if its the second coming. Next time i'll just link back to this thread.
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Drivers? How do you know they're even running the same test/settings?
I don't play Max Payne games, sorry. I see people maxing it with 480s, I guess I could check it out.
What Micro stutter?
Loud like any reference overclocked AMD card? Power draw like any other overclocked AMD card? If you want quite air cooling you either need a 670/680 or non reference.
I get over 70 fps in Crysis 1 with 8x AA Very High @ 1080p, anything after that is worthless, right?
54 FPS in Metro? "meh"
I don't think vram will be an issue at 1080p in last light.
Blocks are only $45, and they aren't worthless as they're pure copper. You can always scrap them. You could also get universal blocks
We'll see, I'm running 5900x1080 and they do just fine for me. Actually though the reason I built the budget secondary system was because games are pretty bad right now and most don't warrant half the system I have now. Turning up the graphics adds very little to the actual value of the game, most the good titles are f2p and can run fine on older laptops.
Most people like to spend more than they need to, this is a niche place at best. Very little of what happens here actually represents 1% of the gaming market and it will continue to be more and more niche as time goes on we're a dying breed.
Edit: We need to make a new thread lolz, or just go to pms
I don't play Max Payne games, sorry. I see people maxing it with 480s, I guess I could check it out.
What Micro stutter?
Loud like any reference overclocked AMD card? Power draw like any other overclocked AMD card? If you want quite air cooling you either need a 670/680 or non reference.
I get over 70 fps in Crysis 1 with 8x AA Very High @ 1080p, anything after that is worthless, right?
54 FPS in Metro? "meh"
I don't think vram will be an issue at 1080p in last light.
Blocks are only $45, and they aren't worthless as they're pure copper. You can always scrap them. You could also get universal blocks
We'll see, I'm running 5900x1080 and they do just fine for me. Actually though the reason I built the budget secondary system was because games are pretty bad right now and most don't warrant half the system I have now. Turning up the graphics adds very little to the actual value of the game, most the good titles are f2p and can run fine on older laptops.
Most people like to spend more than they need to, this is a niche place at best. Very little of what happens here actually represents 1% of the gaming market and it will continue to be more and more niche as time goes on we're a dying breed.
Edit: We need to make a new thread lolz, or just go to pms
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RussianSensation
Elite Member
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I agree that our forum doesn't represent the avg gamer but neither do 900mhz GTX470 SLI/Tri-SLI and esp. watercooled GTX470 SLI.
The PC hardware market is actually expected to grow by 2015:
http://www.techspot.com/news/48449-...inues-to-grow-despite-rising-competition.html
Strong demand will fuel growth over the coming years, especially in the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) countries where systems, accessories and upgrades are expected to near $4.7 billion in 2012 and $7.7 billion in just three years.
That growth will be at lower end though, most games right now are made for lower end hardware, like Diablo 3... I can play that on my 9400m laptop.
The most played games these days are the least demanding to run. I spend more time on my 555 system with a single 470 than my main rig, I just don't see the point in my main rig at this stage as the games I'm playing right now don't warrant it at all
Perhaps my own perspective is starting to skew my posts here, I went up on the tree so far and felt so little return from it that I've come down basically to a system that is still well beyond what most others have and it's probably one of the slower systems around here now (i3-530 + 470 SLI).
The most played games these days are the least demanding to run. I spend more time on my 555 system with a single 470 than my main rig, I just don't see the point in my main rig at this stage as the games I'm playing right now don't warrant it at all
Perhaps my own perspective is starting to skew my posts here, I went up on the tree so far and felt so little return from it that I've come down basically to a system that is still well beyond what most others have and it's probably one of the slower systems around here now (i3-530 + 470 SLI).
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found this on newegg what do you guys think
Diamond HD 7970 $399 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814103201
Diamond HD 7970 $399 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814103201
RussianSensation
Elite Member
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No, reference blower on the 7970 is loud and it has no advantages over the MSi TwinFrozr 3 that costs $80 less, has way better cooler and amazing overclocking headroom. I think you should just wait for GTX660/660Ti and see what they cost. One of those could be a good card for you. If you plan on overclocking, maybe you'll find an HD7950 for $290-310 soon.
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