Sapphire HD 7850 GONE

[Durvelle27]

why doesn't newegg have any Sapphire HD 7850s ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102986

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102984

 

[cmdrdredd]

what about an MSI? $245 after rebate

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127663

 

[Durvelle27]

that's what i was going with as i like the cooler ? just wanted to know what happened to the sapphire cards ?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Dunno, maybe sapphire is not producing more at this time?

 

[Durvelle27]

that sucks ?

 

[3DVagabond]

Sapphire is updating some cards. The 7850 is one of them. Probably just a gap in availability.
TechPowerUp

 

[Durvelle27]

oh that looks pretty good ?

 

[RussianSensation]

what about an MSI? $245 after rebate

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127663

$15 more for the MSI TF 7870. Both are good.

Amazon has the Sapphire HD7850 for $258, just $1 less than the MSI TF 7870.

I don't know about $250 for the 7850. There is bound to be another sale on HD7950 TF3 for $310. $60 extra will net a massive performance increase, almost 40% at out of the box.

 

[Durvelle27]

i think my FX 4100 will bottleneck an HD 7950 lol ?

 

[RussianSensation]

Depends on what games you play and how much AA you use. Remember HD7950 is 40% faster out of the gate. Even with some CPU bottleneck, your frames should be way higher for both minimums and avg. It's a moot point since I can't find an HD7950 for $310 right now but if I do, I'll post it. Personally I'd spend another $60 for the 7950. You have 30-40% overclocking headroom on that card too. Some games such as Metro 2033 or Crysis 2 don't care for CPU speed that much. If anything next generation of game titles will be more GPU intensive (Crysis 3, Metro Last Light, Medal of Honor Warfighter). That 40% speed increase + 30-40% overclocking headroom will come in handy in those games because they'll hammer the GPU with tessellation, particle effects, dynamic lighting model, etc.

 

[Durvelle27]

ok thx i'll look into it ?

 

[RussianSensation]

ok thx i'll look into it ?

Sure.

Here is MSI TF3 on Superbiiz. This website usually has a coupon code for $10-15 off every week. This week is BIGBEN for $10 off. The price is back up right now though:
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MSI-7950TF

Then you have NCIXus.com, currently sold out:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=70088&vpn=R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC&manufacture=MSI/MicroStar

Then Amazon/Newegg. One of these should have it on sale sooner or later.

 

[Durvelle27]

i could wait and see when sales come

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Depends on what games you play and how much AA you use. Remember HD7950 is 40% faster out of the gate. Even with some CPU bottleneck, your frames should be way higher for both minimums and avg. It's a moot point since I can't find an HD7950 for $310 right now but if I do, I'll post it. Personally I'd spend another $60 for the 7950. You have 30-40% overclocking headroom on that card too. Some games such as Metro 2033 or Crysis 2 don't care for CPU speed that much. If anything next generation of game titles will be more GPU intensive (Crysis 3, Metro Last Light, Medal of Honor Warfighter). That 40% speed increase + 30-40% overclocking headroom will come in handy in those games because they'll hammer the GPU with tessellation, particle effects, dynamic lighting model, etc.

I think you might be over-estimating the performance of a 4.2GHz 4100

Even in reviews where they use a 6850 you can see a clear bottleneck with the 4100, often it's performing around or below the level of a G860.

Granted depending on the games played the problem will vary, but it seems like he might end up just throwing money at a cpu wall seeing no actual benefit for the increased cost incurred.

4100 @ 4.2 is actually slower than a 4GHz Phenom II, those chips were having problems with 400 and 5000 series cards compared to 1366/1156.

 

[RussianSensation]

Well it depends on the game really.

For example that CPU will for sure get you > 60 fps in Crysis 2:
http://www.techspot.com/review/379-crysis-2-performance/page8.html

But how fast is HD7850 in Crysis 2 at the same resolution? Only 40 fps:

So it'll give that 40% increase in Crysis 2 no problem since the CPU is sufficient to provide the 60, at which point the 7950 is the bigger bottleneck.

Really outside of strategy games and MMOs, FPS are generally not CPU intensive once you turn on AA on the 7950. There are some exceptions such as BF3 but in that game you'll be way more GPU limited in the first place.

I really think you are overestimating how much of a bottleneck that CPU is. Bulldozer FX 4170 = 4.2ghz and it is fast enough for > 60 fps in non-strategy/non-MMO games.
http://www.techspot.com/review/523-ivy-bridge-intel-core-i7-3770k/page7.html

This is why I think the 7950 is worth spending $ for. Crysis 3, Metro Last Light, Watch Dogs, GTA V, etc. All of those games will hammer the GPU first before you even start to run into a CPU bottleneck.

 

[Durvelle27]

ok i decided to save up and get the MSi Twin Frozr HD 7950 next month on the 16 ? if i feel a bottleneck i'll oc my FX 4100 to 4.6GHz ? also i game at 1920x1080 ( BF3, MW3, Skyrim, Batman Ac, MP3, Black OPs, AC Brotherhood, Ghost Recon FS, Deus EX HR, WoW etc.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127667

 

[Silverforce11]

7850s need to drop to $200 to be good perf/$ again, since 7950s with great coolers are going for so low now.

 

[Durvelle27]

they might what's the rumor about an HD 7930 coming late August ?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I really think you are overestimating how much of a bottleneck that CPU is. Bulldozer FX 4170 = 4.2ghz and it is fast enough for > 60 fps in non-strategy/non-MMO games.
http://www.techspot.com/review/523-ivy-bridge-intel-core-i7-3770k/page7.html

Yes you could get away with even slower cpus in some of those gpu bound titles.


It's what happens in the cpu intensive games where it becomes a painful bottleneck offering sub 40 fps in many cases.

Any time he runs a MMO or AI intensive game his cpu is going to dog out, raiding in WoW for instance he'd be lucky to pull 35 fps, on a good day. Over baring the amount of AA used isn't a real solution, in fact in most cases after 4x it's a total waste of power/resources.

I've been there, I had a 4.4GHz 1090T, it dogs you so hard it's saddening at times, 23 fps in WoW, unplayable custom games in SC2, solo play only in Diablo 3/PoE, you simply can't under estimate the value of a good processor. Because when the cpu bottlenecks, it doesn't matter if you were getting 70 or 50 fps for an hour before it, all you'll notice is the frame rates drop to 20 and all that matters during those times is the cpu, having the bigger gpu does nothing for you.


Your thought is spend $60 more get a bigger gpu, my thought is sell off his AMD system, use the funds to make a more well rounded platform while the prices drop. 660 ti might squeeze the bottom half of these cards down into the low $200 range or even lower.

Who knows, I do know while the 4100 may be ok in several titles, it isn't in many others, seems like a waste of resources to go bigger and bigger on your gpu when your biggest bottleneck is the processor overall.

 

[Durvelle27]

Yes you could get away with even slower cpus in some of those gpu bound titles.


It's what happens in the cpu intensive games where it becomes a painful bottleneck offering sub 40 fps in many cases.

Any time he runs a MMO or AI intensive game his cpu is going to dog out, raiding in WoW for instance he'd be lucky to pull 35 fps, on a good day. Over baring the amount of AA used isn't a real solution, in fact in most cases after 4x it's a total waste of power/resources.

I've been there, I had a 4.4GHz 1090T, it dogs you so hard it's saddening at times, 23 fps in WoW, unplayable custom games in SC2, solo play only in Diablo 3/PoE, you simply can't under estimate the value of a good processor. Because when the cpu bottlenecks, it doesn't matter if you were getting 70 or 50 fps for an hour before it, all you'll notice is the frame rates drop to 20 and all that matters during those times is the cpu, having the bigger gpu does nothing for you.


Your thought is spend $60 more get a bigger gpu, my thought is sell off his AMD system, use the funds to make a more well rounded platform while the prices drop. 660 ti might squeeze the bottom half of these cards down into the low $200 range or even lower.

Who knows, I do know while the 4100 may be ok in several titles, it isn't in many others, seems like a waste of resources to go bigger and bigger on your gpu when your biggest bottleneck is the processor overall.

all the games i play now are doing fine on my FX 4100 just a heads up i'm an AMD guy ?

 

[lehtv]

Sapphire is releasing new versions of their 7800 series lineup. There were news about it a few weeks back

http://www.techpowerup.com/169097/SAPPHIRE-Updates-HD-7850-Family.html

 

[The_Golden_Man]

No point investing in anything much better than a GTX 560Ti/570/580/HD5870/HD6870/Or in this performance segment for AMD CPU's (Even at 4GHz +). Same goes for Q9550/Q9650 4GHz +. The CPU will bottleneck in many scenarios. Just as Balla The Feared said. It does not always show up in benchmarks. CPU limited parts of games does not always show up without actually playing the game.

Minimum FPS is very important, and here the CPU bottlenecks will come to play.

 

[RussianSensation]

Balla, but outside of WOW, some of those games Durvelle27 listed are pretty GPU intensive.

The last thing you need to worry about in GPU intensive games on an HD7850 is a CPU bottleneck:

A whopping 20 fps separates an overclocked 7950 and an HD7870. You think a Bulldozer @ 4.2ghz won't get you any of those? Look at GTX480 and 6970. BF3 is insanely GPU limited. Some people have stated on our forum that you need a 6-core 3930K with HT and 4.5ghz+ to try to get 60 fps minimums. Those guys are running GTX670 SLI OCed! Single-GPUs have no chance to even even come close to those type of frame-rates in the first place.

Future games will get more GPU intensive, not less. That means the bottleneck will shift even more away from the CPU.

Look at Medal of Honor preliminary testing - FX4100 3.6ghz can get you 65 fps min and 94 fps average:

and this is what happens when you turn on GPU related settings:

42 fps on an HD7850 vs. 57 fps on an HD7950!!!! FX4100 is not going to bottleneck a single 7950 here.

Exact same scenario in BF3 Close Quarters. The FX4100 is more than capable of delivering great framerates. It won't be as fast as Core i5/i7 systems, but it doesn't matter since you'll be GPU limited:

38 fps for HD7850 vs. 52 fps for HD7950!

It's the guys running GTX670 SLI or HD7950 CF or GTX470 Tri-SLI that may start to care for CPU bottlenecking. For single-GPU users, this is almost a non-issue except for crappy engines such as WOW that only use 2 cores and specifically for people who play a ton of strategy games (Shogun 2, SC2 with 200 characters, etc.)

What about Metro Last Light? That game is going to chew GPUs and Metro 2033 could care less about CPU speed. Crysis 3 will be even more GPU demanding than Crysis 2 I feel since they'll throw all kinds of fancy DX11 features in there to try to stand out. There is just no way that an FX4100 @ 4.2ghz will be 40-50% slower than a Core i5 2500k/3570K system, but HD7950 @ 1.1ghz will smash an OCed HD7850.

Max Payne 3, check it out:

FX4100 can give you almost 100 fps

And now with everything on Ultra + AA

37 fps 7850 and 50 fps for a stock 7950. Huge difference.

Batman AC with 8AA on = 72-75 fps on modern CPUs.

So for every 5-6 GPU intensive game, there is a game like SKYRIM that loves a fast CPU. But that's because SKYRIM and WOW use outdated game engines are are both not GPU demanding at 1080P:

But is it worth it to pass on 7950 for 1 game when in 5-6 games it'll smoke the 7850/7870? I don't think it's worth it unless SKYRIM, WOW, SC2, Shogun 2 and MMOs are your primary games.

Here is MSI TF3 back for $316 w/FS
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2261626

 

[Durvelle27]

Balla, but outside of WOW, some of those games Durvelle27 listed are pretty GPU intensive.

The last thing you need to worry about in GPU intensive games on an HD7850 is a CPU bottleneck:

A whopping 20 fps separates an overclocked 7950 and an HD7870. You think a Bulldozer @ 4.2ghz won't get you any of those? Look at GTX480 and 6970. BF3 is insanely GPU limited. Some people have stated on our forum that you need a 6-core 3930K with HT and 4.5ghz+ to try to get 60 fps minimums. Those guys are running GTX670 SLI OCed! Single-GPUs have no chance to even even come close to those type of frame-rates in the first place.

Future games will get more GPU intensive, not less. That means the bottleneck will shift even more away from the CPU.

Look at Medal of Honor preliminary testing - FX4100 3.6ghz can get you 65 fps min and 94 fps average:

and this is what happens when you turn on GPU related settings:

42 fps on an HD7850 vs. 57 fps on an HD7950!!!! FX4100 is not going to bottleneck a single 7950 here.

Exact same scenario in BF3 Close Quarters. The FX4100 is more than capable of delivering great framerates. It won't be as fast as Core i5/i7 systems, but it doesn't matter since you'll be GPU limited:

38 fps for HD7850 vs. 52 fps for HD7950!

It's the guys running GTX670 SLI or HD7950 CF or GTX470 Tri-SLI that may start to care for CPU bottlenecking. For single-GPU users, this is almost a non-issue except for crappy engines such as WOW that only use 2 cores and specifically for people who play a ton of strategy games (Shogun 2, SC2 with 200 characters, etc.)

What about Metro Last Light? That game is going to chew GPUs and Metro 2033 could care less about CPU speed. Crysis 3 will be even more GPU demanding than Crysis 2 I feel since they'll throw all kinds of fancy DX11 features in there to try to stand out. There is just no way that an FX4100 @ 4.2ghz will be 40-50% slower than a Core i5 2500k/3570K system, but HD7950 @ 1.1ghz will smash an OCed HD7850.

Max Payne 3, check it out:

FX4100 can give you almost 100 fps

And now with everything on Ultra + AA

37 fps 7850 and 50 fps for a stock 7950. Huge difference.

Batman AC with 8AA on = 72-75 fps on modern CPUs.

So for every 5-6 GPU intensive game, there is a game like SKYRIM that loves a fast CPU. But that's because SKYRIM and WOW use outdated game engines are are both not GPU demanding at 1080P:

But is it worth it to pass on 7950 for 1 game when in 5-6 games it'll smoke the 7850/7870? I don't think it's worth it unless SKYRIM, WOW, SC2, Shogun 2 and MMOs are your primary games.

Here is MSI TF3 back for $316 w/FS
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2261626

nope BF3 is my primary games ? Don't like any of those games but skyrim which rarely gets played lol ? also that's a great deal but as stated before i won't be able to get it till next month on the 16 which by then prices might have dropped some ?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

@ RussianSensation


Too much


Anyways you aren't showing me anything, you're showing avg, of which the AMD is always lower, but that isn't the point.

Everyone of your tests is flawed.

Crushblow to Krazz... You're talking about running on a dead server from one unpopulated area to another, it's pointless.

BF3 is all SP, who cares that's not what's going to crunch a CPU and you know that.


Either way it's still missing the point.

What I'm telling you is in a real life situation when playing it won't matter if you have a 460 or a 7970, when the load goes to 11 Bulldozer goes to 3. Who cares if you get 100 fps with one card and 70 with the other when at the end of the day they're both going to bog out and produce crap fps because of the processor? In a 10 minute fraps session you might have 2-3 bog downs but the avg fps difference won't be much different, but the end user experience will be vastly different.

I'd rather have a i5-2500k and a 7850 than a 4100 and a 7970 any day no matter what, there is no reassurance with the AMD processor, just because you're playing a game that is ok now doesn't mean another Skyrim won't come out and you'll be sitting there twiddling your thumbs with a $400 gpu that is operating at 30% usage because of the CPU. It's a waste of money imo.