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Santorum reads nuke polls, applies the brakes

conjur

No Lifer
http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/...ll/News/Frontpage/042105/santorum.html
Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), a leading advocate of the ?nuclear option? to end the Democrats? filibuster of judicial nominees, is privately arguing for a delay in the face of adverse internal party polls.

Details of the polling numbers remain under wraps, but Santorum and other Senate sources concede that, while a majority of Americans oppose the filibuster, the figures show that most also accept the Democratic message that Republicans are trying to destroy the tradition of debate in the Senate.

The Republicans are keeping the ?nuclear? poll numbers secret, whereas they have often in the past been keen to release internal survey results that favor the party
. David Winston, head of the Winston Group, which conducts Senate GOP polls, did return phone calls seeking comment.

Confirming public disquiet over the ?nuclear? or ?constitutional? option, Santorum said, ?Our polling shows that.? But, he added, public thinking had been muddied by what he called false Democratic arguments that checks and balances were being eroded.

?People see checks and balances as Democrats checking Republicans, not the legislative checking the executive or the judiciary checking the legislative,? Santorum said. Filibustering presidential nominees was not something the Founding Fathers envisioned as a tool for balancing power between the branches, he argued. In other words, Democrats have managed to convince the public of their right to check Republicans in the Senate.

Santorum?s raising of reasons that Republicans should delay the constitutional option may surprise conservative activists who count him as one of the most passionate advocates for the tactic in the Senate.

?There is no doubt that Santorum was the backbone of this from the very beginning, and he continues to be,? said Manuel Miranda, head of the National Coalition to End Judicial Filibusters, an alliance of more than 200 conservative groups working on the judges issue.

Many Republicans and conservative activists had thought the Senate GOP leadership would trigger the tactic next week to end the judicial filibuster. The nominees considered most appropriate for such a historic procedural maneuver, Priscilla Owen and Janice Rogers Brown, are expected to be discharged from the Judiciary Committee later this week.

Conservative activists said they received word last week to ramp up their communication efforts on the constitutional option with the goal of having their activity peak next week, before the May recess. Also last week, a New York Times report citing senior Senate lawmakers bolstered the expectation that the showdown would happen next week.

Santorum said he has left the timing to Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.).

?I?ve been suggesting one way or the other we need to make a decision. I haven?t said [a] longer or shorter? timeframe should be followed, he said.


But GOP aides said Santorum has made known to the leadership reasons for why Republicans should not move forward on the nuclear or constitutional option.

?He was concerned that too many things are competing in the same area and you couldn?t get a clean shot at it,? a GOP aide said. The aide cited the ?fallout? from congressional Republicans? intervening in a Florida court?s decision to remove Terri Schiavo?s feeding tube and the subsequent controversy caused by House Majority Leader Tom DeLay?s (R-Texas) statement that ?the time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior.?

Democrats portrayed that statement as an incitement against judges, and it resulted in a spate of media critiques of DeLay and Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), who made a speech on the Senate floor raising the question of why judges are targets of violence.

Senate and House Democrats have woven the Republican intervention in the Schiavo issue, DeLay?s statement about judges who declined to save her life, and GOP consideration of the nuclear option into a broad message that Republicans are abusing power. John Bolton?s stalled nomination to become U.N. ambassador has also become a distraction.

?There?s not a clean slate and backdrop? for the nuclear option, a GOP aide said, summarizing Santorum?s observations. ?But while Santorum is saying too many things are competing in the same realm, others are saying they highlight the issue? of judges by demonstrating how the makeup of the judiciary affects national debates, for example.

Another GOP aide said Santorum is less concerned with the fallout from the Schiavo case than with addressing several more items on the legislative agenda before Democrats tie the Senate in knots, as they have threatened to retaliate against a rule change.

?There?s important business our guys have to get out of the way,? the aide said, adding, ?Our guys want to give every chance for some negotiated compromise to be explored? to avoid gridlock.

Santorum said, ?We have a lot of work to get done.?

But the aide denied that the ?messaging environment? is giving Republicans second thoughts about the nuclear or constitutional option. Republicans would craft their message to their actions, not their actions to a poll-tested message, the aide added.

But GOP polling shows that Americans have swallowed the Democrats? and liberal groups? message on the constitutional option, the sources say.

?If anything is bad, it is that the American public has bought the misinformation campaign that we?re trying to take away the filibuster,? the aide said. ?The campaign has caused misinformation, and that?s where we have a messaging challenge.?
Well, if the GOP wants a clean slate, they need to start playing by the rules and stop living in their fantasy world based upon hypocrisy, double standards, corruption, greed, egomania, etc.

Although, I can't help but wonder if Santorum was feeling some PR heat from the flames flickering under his feet re: his tax breaks in PA and his statements to shutdown the National Weather Service forecast website.

I swear, the GOP has gone totally bonkers. They're insane with power and it's well past time for a reality check.
 
Originally posted by: conjur

I swear, the GOP has gone totally bonkers. They're insane with power and it's well past time for a reality check.

I agree. I also can't help but think that the GOP is worried that the pendulum has swung so far to the right that it has basically stopped and is about to start back to the left again. Getting rid of the fillibuster rule would help Bush and his croonies in the short term, but in the long term it just might do them more harm then good.
 
Santorum is strange. he does some things that I agree with, but he also scares the Jesus out of me.

I'll be glad when he loses his reelection campaign.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/...ll/News/Frontpage/042105/santorum.html
Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), a leading advocate of the ?nuclear option? to end the Democrats? filibuster of judicial nominees, is privately arguing for a delay in the face of adverse internal party polls.

Details of the polling numbers remain under wraps, but Santorum and other Senate sources concede that, while a majority of Americans oppose the filibuster, the figures show that most also accept the Democratic message that Republicans are trying to destroy the tradition of debate in the Senate.

The Republicans are keeping the ?nuclear? poll numbers secret, whereas they have often in the past been keen to release internal survey results that favor the party
. David Winston, head of the Winston Group, which conducts Senate GOP polls, did return phone calls seeking comment.

Confirming public disquiet over the ?nuclear? or ?constitutional? option, Santorum said, ?Our polling shows that.? But, he added, public thinking had been muddied by what he called false Democratic arguments that checks and balances were being eroded.

?People see checks and balances as Democrats checking Republicans, not the legislative checking the executive or the judiciary checking the legislative,? Santorum said. Filibustering presidential nominees was not something the Founding Fathers envisioned as a tool for balancing power between the branches, he argued. In other words, Democrats have managed to convince the public of their right to check Republicans in the Senate.

Santorum?s raising of reasons that Republicans should delay the constitutional option may surprise conservative activists who count him as one of the most passionate advocates for the tactic in the Senate.

?There is no doubt that Santorum was the backbone of this from the very beginning, and he continues to be,? said Manuel Miranda, head of the National Coalition to End Judicial Filibusters, an alliance of more than 200 conservative groups working on the judges issue.

Many Republicans and conservative activists had thought the Senate GOP leadership would trigger the tactic next week to end the judicial filibuster. The nominees considered most appropriate for such a historic procedural maneuver, Priscilla Owen and Janice Rogers Brown, are expected to be discharged from the Judiciary Committee later this week.

Conservative activists said they received word last week to ramp up their communication efforts on the constitutional option with the goal of having their activity peak next week, before the May recess. Also last week, a New York Times report citing senior Senate lawmakers bolstered the expectation that the showdown would happen next week.

Santorum said he has left the timing to Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.).

?I?ve been suggesting one way or the other we need to make a decision. I haven?t said [a] longer or shorter? timeframe should be followed, he said.


But GOP aides said Santorum has made known to the leadership reasons for why Republicans should not move forward on the nuclear or constitutional option.

?He was concerned that too many things are competing in the same area and you couldn?t get a clean shot at it,? a GOP aide said. The aide cited the ?fallout? from congressional Republicans? intervening in a Florida court?s decision to remove Terri Schiavo?s feeding tube and the subsequent controversy caused by House Majority Leader Tom DeLay?s (R-Texas) statement that ?the time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior.?

Democrats portrayed that statement as an incitement against judges, and it resulted in a spate of media critiques of DeLay and Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), who made a speech on the Senate floor raising the question of why judges are targets of violence.

Senate and House Democrats have woven the Republican intervention in the Schiavo issue, DeLay?s statement about judges who declined to save her life, and GOP consideration of the nuclear option into a broad message that Republicans are abusing power. John Bolton?s stalled nomination to become U.N. ambassador has also become a distraction.

?There?s not a clean slate and backdrop? for the nuclear option, a GOP aide said, summarizing Santorum?s observations. ?But while Santorum is saying too many things are competing in the same realm, others are saying they highlight the issue? of judges by demonstrating how the makeup of the judiciary affects national debates, for example.

Another GOP aide said Santorum is less concerned with the fallout from the Schiavo case than with addressing several more items on the legislative agenda before Democrats tie the Senate in knots, as they have threatened to retaliate against a rule change.

?There?s important business our guys have to get out of the way,? the aide said, adding, ?Our guys want to give every chance for some negotiated compromise to be explored? to avoid gridlock.

Santorum said, ?We have a lot of work to get done.?

But the aide denied that the ?messaging environment? is giving Republicans second thoughts about the nuclear or constitutional option. Republicans would craft their message to their actions, not their actions to a poll-tested message, the aide added.

But GOP polling shows that Americans have swallowed the Democrats? and liberal groups? message on the constitutional option, the sources say.

?If anything is bad, it is that the American public has bought the misinformation campaign that we?re trying to take away the filibuster,? the aide said. ?The campaign has caused misinformation, and that?s where we have a messaging challenge.?
Well, if the GOP wants a clean slate, they need to start playing by the rules and stop living in their fantasy world based upon hypocrisy, double standards, corruption, greed, egomania, etc.

Although, I can't help but wonder if Santorum was feeling some PR heat from the flames flickering under his feet re: his tax breaks in PA and his statements to shutdown the National Weather Service forecast website.

I swear, the GOP has gone totally bonkers. They're insane with power and it's well past time for a reality check.

Oh please as if the democrats are any better

 
Right now they are. Well, most of them. Folks like Clinton and Lieberman might as well change party affiliation.
 
Take off the blinders.

Democrats are the party of no and partisan hacks.

Bush could plant a red rose in the white house lawn and the Kennedy, Pilosi, Boxer, and that old bag of bones Reid would hold a press conference complaining the Rose is really yellow and he killed some ants doing it.

You throw out one of those four and it is like the 3 stoodges.

 
The so called ?nuclear option? is neither unprecedented nor likely to interfere with the Senate?s efficient functioning in the future.

Both Republicans and Democrats forget, however, that the existing filibuster rule itself was a product of a process very much like the so called "nuclear option." The existing filibuster rule was enacted at the beginning of the congressional session in 1975. At that time, Sen. Mondale and Sen. Pearson, proposed to change the old filibuster rule to permit 60 senators, rather than two-thirds of those voting, to end debate.

When this proposal was filibustered, they made a motion that debate on the amendment be ended by a mere majority. Although a senator objected that the Senate rules allowed debate to be terminated only with the approval of two-thirds of the Senate, a majority of the Senate rejected this objection. In the end, the Senate reached a compromise which enacted the present filibuster rule with its 60-vote cloture requirement, but reversed the ruling that allowed a majority to end debate on an amendment to the rules.

Thus, majority amendment of the Senate rule is not something new, but was a necessary step to enacting the existing filibuster rule, which otherwise would have been defeated by a filibuster. Moreover, Democrats like Mondale, were among the principal architects of the change. And this majority amendment was anything but nuclear, since it neither destabilized the Senate nor eliminated the filibuster. Instead, the amendment caused the Senate to negotiate a compromise that has lasted for a generation.

The Senate majority's power to modify the filibuster is also strongly supported by constitutional principles.
 
Originally posted by: loki8481
Santorum is strange. he does some things that I agree with, but he also scares the Jesus out of me.

I'll be glad when he loses his reelection campaign.

Poll: Casey Leads Santorum by 14 Points

Perhaps, Santorum was looking at another poll - the one that has his reelect WAY under 40%. Anyway, the elections is 1+ year away but it does not look good for Santorum because Casey has broader appeal in western Penn. then a typical Democrat. He is also doing ok in the T zone which is Santorum's base. Randell is also up for re-election so he will get his Philly machine out. If the numbers don't improve soon, Santorum may pull out and run for President. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
The so called ?nuclear option? is neither unprecedented nor likely to interfere with the Senate?s efficient functioning in the future.


I have no doubt it would make the Senate more efficient, but is it a good idea to eliminate fillibustering? I personally don't think so because it balances out the power between the majority and minority parties.

It doesn't really mater to me which party would want to implement it, I would be against it.

 
Really. Where's JarJar to bring the senate to its knees? But seriously, about the only thing I like about the Democrats is their uncanny ability to block the GOP from enacting all of their evil plans.
 
Meh. Why don't they just go back to the system of forcing the filibustering Senator to actually give that 24 hour long speech? That in itself was a great way to prevent the filibuster from being abused.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Meh. Why don't they just go back to the system of forcing the filibustering Senator to actually give that 24 hour long speech? That in itself was a great way to prevent the filibuster from being abused.
As long as Obama is the one that gets to talk. What an eloquent speaker he is.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Right now they are. Well, most of them. Folks like Clinton and Lieberman might as well change party affiliation.

Maybe Clinton is just being realistic about what it might take to win. I don't think you should write her off just yet, either. 🙂

 
Originally posted by: chowderhead
Originally posted by: loki8481
Santorum is strange. he does some things that I agree with, but he also scares the Jesus out of me.

I'll be glad when he loses his reelection campaign.

Poll: Casey Leads Santorum by 14 Points

Perhaps, Santorum was looking at another poll - the one that has his reelect WAY under 40%. Anyway, the elections is 1+ year away but it does not look good for Santorum because Casey has broader appeal in western Penn. then a typical Democrat. He is also doing ok in the T zone which is Santorum's base. Randell is also up for re-election so he will get his Philly machine out. If the numbers don't improve soon, Santorum may pull out and run for President. 🙂

With a charmless nutcase like Santorum as GOP candidate, victory is Hillary's for the taking.

 
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: conjur
Right now they are. Well, most of them. Folks like Clinton and Lieberman might as well change party affiliation.
Maybe Clinton is just being realistic about what it might take to win. I don't think you should write her off just yet, either. 🙂
I wrote her off YEARS ago.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: conjur
Right now they are. Well, most of them. Folks like Clinton and Lieberman might as well change party affiliation.
Maybe Clinton is just being realistic about what it might take to win. I don't think you should write her off just yet, either. 🙂
I wrote her off YEARS ago.

Yes, but why?
 
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: conjur
Right now they are. Well, most of them. Folks like Clinton and Lieberman might as well change party affiliation.
Maybe Clinton is just being realistic about what it might take to win. I don't think you should write her off just yet, either. 🙂
I wrote her off YEARS ago.
Yes, but why?
Mostly because I just cannot stand her. Lately, because she became a carpetbagger and now a DINO.
 
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