Sandy Bridge-E Details Revealed

[inf64]

The OP is listing rather old information.Then he is using this old information in order to compare this unreleased product to yet another unreleased product(Zambezi). Ok I can play the speculation game too .

For top end SB-E we will have 6C/12T with same underlying core uarchitecture as SB(2600K),only with somewhat more L3 cache per core than Westmere 6C(980x,990x,unreleased 995x),15MB vs 12MB. Turbo has a slight bump to 3.9GHz versus 3.8Ghz for SB and 3.8 or 3.9Ghz for 995x.Since Turbo will run more often then not,I assume SB-E will almost always run at 3.6Ghz for 4 core workloads and 3.9Ghz for single core workloads.This is in reality around 2% better than what 2600K can do with its Turbo,both on 4C and single core load.
So summed up : L3 cache bump may bring ~3% or so higher performance and overall Turbo boost may be responsible for another 2%.Cumulative effect for SB-E versus 2600K on desktop,using hardware.fr chart : 213.4x1.03x1.02x1.16*=261 "points". But SB-E will have lower starting clock so we need to figure in results for 3.3Ghz 6 core workloads.This is 3.4/3.3=1.03 or 3% lower. So SB-E @ 3.3Ghz/3.9GhzT should land somewhere between 253pts and 261pts.
995x would in turn get 228.5x3.6/3.46=238 points.
*In intel's case,going from 4C/8T Nehalem @ 3.33Ghz to 6C/12T @ 3.33Ghz Westmere with 50% more L3 in desktop apps brings exactly 16.6% perf. improvement,courtesy of SMT which diminishes the effect of more real cores.This is what hardware.fr found out in their 980x review.AMD sees a bit better effect,24.5% higher overall score with 50% more cores (Deneb @ 3.2Ghz Vs Thuban @ 3.2Ghz,Turbo brings just over 1% so it's irrelevant).

So going from Westmere 6C @ 3.6Ghz/3.8GhzT to SB-E 6C @ 3.3Ghz/3.9GhzT we have approximately ~9.6% improvement in best case(261/238=1.096) or 6.3% in worst case (253/238).

On to Zambezi.I have written a blog that covers this.To cut the story short,my estimate for a rumored 8C 3.6Ghz/4.2GhzT Zambezi is 229pts,or 39% better overall performance than Thuban @ 3.3Ghz. This would tie the score of 990x and trail yet to be launched 995x(Q3 or Q4) by around 3%,while costing 3x less than 900+$ 995x. SB-E looks to be delayed a bit,to Q1 2012.If it launches with the specs we know now,it will be around 10-14%(worst-best case) faster overall than 3.6Ghz 8C Zambezi,while costing roughly 3x more(probably replacing the price spot of 995x).

 

[cusideabelincoln]

If there are no real arch improvements over SB, then it should perform similarly to the 990x?

There are improvements in SB-E over Gulftown in IPC, and it should also clock higher.

 

[AdamK47]

The OP is listing rather old information.Then he is using this old information in order to compare this unreleased product to yet another unreleased product(Zambezi). Ok I can play the speculation game too .

For top end SB-E we will have 6C/12T with same underlying core uarchitecture as SB(2600K),only with somewhat more L3 cache per core than Westmere 6C(980x,990x,unreleased 995x),15MB vs 12MB. Turbo has a slight bump to 3.9GHz versus 3.8Ghz for SB and 3.8 or 3.9Ghz for 995x.Since Turbo will run more often then not,I assume SB-E will almost always run at 3.6Ghz for 4 core workloads and 3.9Ghz for single core workloads.This is in reality around 2% better than what 2600K can do with its Turbo,both on 4C and single core load.
So summed up : L3 cache bump may bring ~3% or so higher performance and overall Turbo boost may be responsible for another 2%.Cumulative effect for SB-E versus 2600K on desktop,using hardware.fr chart : 213.4x1.03x1.02x1.16*=261 "points". But SB-E will have lower starting clock so we need to figure in results for 3.3Ghz 6 core workloads.This is 3.4/3.3=1.03 or 3% lower. So SB-E @ 3.3Ghz/3.9GhzT should land somewhere between 253pts and 261pts.
995x would in turn get 228.5x3.6/3.46=238 points.
*In intel's case,going from 4C/8T Nehalem @ 3.33Ghz to 6C/12T @ 3.33Ghz Westmere with 50% more L3 in desktop apps brings exactly 16.6% perf. improvement,courtesy of SMT which diminishes the effect of more real cores.This is what hardware.fr found out in their 980x review.AMD sees a bit better effect,24.5% higher overall score with 50% more cores (Deneb @ 3.2Ghz Vs Thuban @ 3.2Ghz,Turbo brings just over 1% so it's irrelevant).

So going from Westmere 6C @ 3.47Ghz/3.8GhzT to SB-E 6C @ 3.3Ghz/3.9GhzT we have approximately ~9.6% improvement in best case(261/238=1.096) or 6.3% in worst case (253/238).

On to Zambezi.I have written a blog that covers this.To cut the story short,my estimate for a rumored 8C 3.6Ghz/4.2GhzT Zambezi is 229pts,or 39% better overall performance than Thuban @ 3.3Ghz. This would tie the score of 990x and trail yet to be launched 995x(Q3 or Q4) by around 3%,while costing 3x less than 900+$ 995x. SB-E looks to be delayed a bit,to Q1 2012.If it launches with the specs we know now,it will be around 10-14%(worst-best case) faster overall than 3.6Ghz 8C Zambezi,while costing roughly 3x more(probably replacing the price spot of 995x).

Quoted for future reference... namely, when it's released. We'll see how well this holds up. I'll quote this post and post my numbers once released. You have my word on that.

 

[-Slacker-]

[redacted]

Play nice.
-ViRGE

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

you're poor and don't do anything stressful with a computer, we get it

ROFL

 

[bridito]

Quoted for future reference... namely, when it's released. We'll see how well this holds up. I'll quote this post and post my numbers once released. You have my word on that.

One more into the free beer bet pool?

-Slacker-: Reported.

 

[greenhawk]

1) When is SB-E out?
3) Just how much difference in street price is there going to be between 3820 and 3930?

#1, SB-E's last update was for March '12. The graph is old (even IB is April '12 (Q2).

3) the low end 4 core is ment to be compariable in performance and cost of a 2600. So $300ish. The middle one is a replacement for the i7-980, so $600 ish, and the Extream replaces the current extream i7 at the $1000ish price range.

 

[greenhawk]

No new info

pretty much the same information that has been around for the last several months. Only addition I can notice is the actual part numbers vs other items I have read.

Just sort of laughing at the reference that the i7-3xxx refers to the 3rd generation given intel's reason for going to the 2xxx over the original numbering system.

 

[greenhawk]

I've been ready to buy this thing for over 5 months now.

similar here as well. Just given up waiting as with delays and delays, my q6600 is getting old. Thinking of going for a 2600K and will wait for IB-E instead.

Heck, I still remember hearing about intel looking to make a cpu in a 2011 pin socket back when I had (at the time) a old dual celeron system.

 

[greenhawk]

If there are no real arch improvements over SB, then it should perform similarly to the 990x?

based on the i7-8xx vs the i7-9xx, the performance increase was their, but not a huge amount. It is that sort of improvement that I am expecting SB-E to bring over the SB.

Though as mentioned/known, the SB generall is better than the original i7-9xx's. The IB release, I suspect, will be the end of the original i7-9xx's.

 

[StrangerGuy]

#1, SB-E's last update was for March '12. The graph is old (even IB is April '12 (Q2).

3) the low end 4 core is ment to be compariable in performance and cost of a 2600. So $300ish. The middle one is a replacement for the i7-980, so $600 ish, and the Extream replaces the current extream i7 at the $1000ish price range.

$600 for the CPU + $300 mobo (don't expect this to be cheap) for a foot in the 6-core door? That's excellent "cough" value right there.

The most ho-hum CPU release for a long time, at least BD is at sane pricepoints people will actually buy.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Meh. Can't say I'm excited. I'm not gonna pay $500+ for a CPU or $300 for a motherboard and $120 for Quad-Channel RAM.

For those that make a living off these or spend a lot of time in multi-threaded apps, the replacement for the i7 980 should definitely be interesting. If the FX-8000 series is competitive with them in these apps, though, I don't know what Intel will do. Most would probably flock to it since platform and CPU costs would be cheaper. That is, IF 8-core FX is competitive in multi-threaded apps.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Good night AMD

Facepalm.jpg

Bulldozer is a Performance CPU that competes with Sandy Bridge Core i5 and i7, other Performance CPUs.

 

[JoJoman88]

That's over 250 to 480 €+ which is like 350 to 750$ U.S. The Core i7 3930K/ or whatever it ends up being, is looking like my flavor of CPU. My Newegg Preferred Account is just about paid for so I can run it up again.

 

[pantsaregood]

i5 2500K and i7 2600K are going to completely destroy the i7 3820. 2MB of L3 and some unnecessary RAM bandwidth aren't going to make up for the 1+ GHz defecit it will be at after overclocking those CPUs.

based on the i7-8xx vs the i7-9xx, the performance increase was their, but not a huge amount. It is that sort of improvement that I am expecting SB-E to bring over the SB.

Though as mentioned/known, the SB generall is better than the original i7-9xx's. The IB release, I suspect, will be the end of the original i7-9xx's.

Not really true. i7 870 (2.93 GHz base clock) and i7 950 (3.06 GHz base clock) perform near identically thanks to the 870's slightly more aggressive turbo. The 880 outperforms the 950 in almost every case.

 

[Phynaz]

Facepalm.jpg

Bulldozer is a Performance CPU that competes with Sandy Bridge Core i5 and i7, other Performance CPUs.

You keep saying this, so do this please:

Look up. See that slide? See where 6 core SB-E is? Now look across to the left and you see the word "Performance".

Bulldozer will be competing with these.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

You keep saying this, so do this please:

Look up. See that slide? See where 6 core SB-E is? Now look across to the left and you see the word "Performance".

Bulldozer will be competing with these.

Look again and you'll see it says "Enthusiast Performance".

It's a play on words by Intel, but the market is divided by Enthusiast, Performance, Mainstream, and Essential. SB-E is Enthusiast, SB Core i7 and i5 are Performance, Core i3 is Mainstream, and Pentium/Celeron is Essential.

Bulldozer is not competing with these. It's a Performance CPU at prices from ~$180-320, the same as its Sandy Bridge Core i5 and i7 competition. Sandy Bridge-E will be priced from ~$350-1000.

Do some research before you decide to make yet another post trying to pick an argument you can't win.

 

[Phynaz]

Look again and you'll see it says "Enthusiast Performance".

...SB Core i7 and i5 are Performance...

I don't see the words "Enthusiast Performance" anywhere on the slide. Do I need to have my eyes checked?

So are you saying that Bulldozer will not compete with any cpu in this slide? Because you say i7 is performance, and the slide clearly shows SB-E (and IB) as the i7 replacement.

If what you are saying is true, then BD is only going to compete with i5.
Edit: Oops, scratch that, the i5 is on this slide too. So according to you BD only competes with i3.

 

[Edrick]

Bulldozer is not competing with these. It's a Performance CPU at prices from ~$180-320, the same as its Sandy Bridge Core i5 and i7 competition. Sandy Bridge-E will be priced from ~$350-1000.

Amazing how you know the prices of unreleased products and know exactly what market segments they are going after based on older (maybe fake) roadmaps. And you feel the need to post it in EVERY thread too.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say who really cares what label Intel or AMD put on their cpu segments. If AMD and Intel both make a CPU that cost $350, then they will be compared with each other, regardless of what "label" they have.

So if the high end BD is priced the same as a low end SB-E (~$350), then they will compete with each other. Period.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I don't see the words "Enthusiast Performance" anywhere on the slide. Do I need to have my eyes checked?

So are you saying that Bulldozer will not compete with any cpu in this slide? Because you say i7 is performance, and the slide clearly shows SB-E (and IB) as the i7 replacement.

If what you are saying is true, then BD is only going to compete with i5.

Because you don't know anything about the market, as is clear from your posts. It's a play on words by Intel since it's a marketing slide. Extreme and Premium Performance, when pertaining to the highest-end platform, represents Enthusiast.

These slides don't show SB-E as the Sandy Bridge i7 replacement. They show the lowest-end model being a tier higher due to it being tied to the Enthusiast platform.

Sandy Bridge-E uses an Enthusiast platform while Sandy Bridge uses either Performance (P67, Z68), Mainstream (H67) and Essential (H61).

Sandy Bridge-E is the replacement for Bloomfield and Gulftown and replaces socket LGA 1366 with LGA 2011. Ivy Bridge replaces Sandy Bridge.

Bulldozer competes with Sandy Bridge.

Thanks for proving you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Phynaz]

Because you don't know anything about the market, as is clear from your posts. It's a play on words by Intel since it's a marketing slide. Extreme and Premium Performance, when pertaining to the highest-end platform, represents Enthusiast.

Okay then, so you are now saying that BD competes with i5, the only CPU that isn't listed as "Premium" (or "Enthusiast" by your definition) in the slide.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Actually if we go by the name of the slide they are all Enthusiast.

But really who, aside people in tech forums, care about that? Products will compete on price.

 

[Phynaz]

Products will compete on price.

:thumbsup: x2

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

:thumbsup: x2

Your hypocrisy is astounding.

First you go and say that Bulldozer, which ranges from ~$180 to ~$320, competes with Sandy Bridge-E, which ranges from ~$350 (perhaps $320) to $1000. Then you say that lower-end Core i7 SB-E replaces Core i7 SB, which is completely untrue. They're different platforms and sockets, which is why Intel is putting lower-end Core i7 Sandy Bridge-E in one tier higher than Core i7 Sandy Bridge. If you look back this is the exact same story as Lynnfield Core i7 with Bloomfield Core i7, where what made Bloomfield classify as Enthusiast was the higher-end platform.

The main point of what I'm trying to get to: even if the lowest-end SB-E has similar cost to the highest-end FX-8100 CPU, the platform costs are what marks the difference. What signifies that Bulldozer competes with Sandy Bridge is the similar CPU and platform costs.

 

[PreferLinux]

i5 2500K and i7 2600K are going to completely destroy the i7 3820. 2MB of L3 and some unnecessary RAM bandwidth aren't going to make up for the 1+ GHz defecit it will be at after overclocking those CPUs.

And how do you know it will overclock so badly? As far as we know, the LGA2011 platform will allow base clock overclocking, so it could well be the other way around (but not by quite as much). And some things are RAM bandwidth limited.