San Francisco Shuns Retired USS Iowa

[TRUMPHENT]

Originally posted by: raildogg
the town is full of drugged up hippies and hippie wannabes. the streets are full of all kinds of crap, literally. and of course, the minds and hearts are full of crap as well. i have nothing against gays, but they have taken over the city. gays = women. that leads to a lot of problems that only real men can handle. a whole lot of homeless strolling the streets.

those are not so good combinations when mixed together

change the name to San Fransicko

You say you have nothing against gays. That's interesting. There was an accident on the USS Iowa in 1984. The Navy sought to blame it on a "gay" sailor. It later had to retract its claims and blame it on the real causes. Faulty training, equipment and old propellant.

The USS New Jersy was sent to the coast of Lebanon in 1983. It's supporting fires were totally inaccurate due to the age of the propellant charges. An adjustment down in range might well cause the next round to fire over the target. Reagan had forgotten to demand the Navy replace out of date ammunition.

This issue is probably more about the enormous cost needed to maintain a museum ship than anything else. The ship does have a history and it isn't all guts and glory.

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Train

hmm, maybe getting into the lakes is different than getting around in them.

The largest Great Lakes freighter is 1,017 feet long

http://www.internationalpark.org/boyerhistory.html

The St. Lawrence Seaway locks is the choke point. There are larger locks at Sault Ste. Marie but any ships coming from the ocean have to transit the Seaway first.

And unless going to say Duluth or Marquette the ship would never pass through the Soo Locks, anyway. Going to Chicago would not require entering Lake Superior.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Frankly, I don't think San Francisco is the town for you. You might consider Austin. Dallas. Little Rock. Gainsville.

Na, too far south for me. Believe it or not I live right outside Americas "most liberal" city. But I actually like the people here better than the snobs in SF.

Colma, Daly City, Brisbane, Emeryville, Tiburon, Sausalito . . . oops I forgot you don't like snobs . . . 😉

 

[OrByte]

I would have gone to see it in SF

I never make trips out to Stockton, but I just might have to one of these days to see the USS Iowa.

that would be cool!

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Martin
Is the idea that money isn't everything so foreign to you people?

Sadly, money worship is too common a thing on AT. Ie, one must sacrifice principles if it means getting a few extra bucks, aethetics are stupid because they cost more, environmentalism is evil because it makes trinckets 1% more expensive, leasure time is bad because you could be working instead, etc etc etc.

This is understandable if one is very poor, but otherwise inexcusable.

Quoted so you can remember this post the next time you think people should pay more in taxes.

Remember now, money is not important.

Perhaps you should post your line of reasoning, as I can't really see it.

And do tell me your view ... what is the point of money?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Martin
Is the idea that money isn't everything so foreign to you people?

Sadly, money worship is too common a thing on AT. Ie, one must sacrifice principles if it means getting a few extra bucks, aethetics are stupid because they cost more, environmentalism is evil because it makes trinckets 1% more expensive, leasure time is bad because you could be working instead, etc etc etc.

This is understandable if one is very poor, but otherwise inexcusable.

Quoted so you can remember this post the next time you think people should pay more in taxes.

Remember now, money is not important.

Perhaps you should post your line of reasoning, as I can't really see it.

And do tell me your view ... what is the point of money?

It provides THE medium of fair exchange between human beings. What is the point? It's the finest thing we ever created. Without it, we would not be able to trade fairly amongst ourselves, and thus would constantly be at war with each other (much like primitive tribes always were -- because they did not have money). Speaking of money, did you know that accounting is the basis of all written languages? Primitive cultures without money never developed a written language.

Heh. This is humorous. You're either 10 or just ignorant. When you labor, how do you expect to be compensated fairly for your time? Should your client or employer pay you in chickens? And that begs the question, how many chickens make a cow? What if you don't want chickens and that's all your employer has to give? How will chickens provide for your shelter? How does one buy bread with chickens? What if the baker won't take chickens, how will you get your bread?
Hopefully, you're starting to get the point.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals support the troops!

its ok to have nothing to add.
its ok not to post.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: PatboyX

Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals support the troops!

its ok to have nothing to add.
its ok not to post.

You forgot
It's ok to forget who is sponsoring the Iowa!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: raildogg
the town is full of drugged up hippies and hippie wannabes. the streets are full of all kinds of crap, literally. and of course, the minds and hearts are full of crap as well. i have nothing against gays, but they have taken over the city. gays = women. that leads to a lot of problems that only real men can handle. a whole lot of homeless strolling the streets.

those are not so good combinations when mixed together

change the name to San Fransicko

I realize you think this is some kind of insult, but let me assure you I LIKE hearing this sort of clap-trap from conservatives. It's one of the big reasons I like SF...you guys aren't there 😉

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Martin
Is the idea that money isn't everything so foreign to you people?

Sadly, money worship is too common a thing on AT. Ie, one must sacrifice principles if it means getting a few extra bucks, aethetics are stupid because they cost more, environmentalism is evil because it makes trinckets 1% more expensive, leasure time is bad because you could be working instead, etc etc etc.

This is understandable if one is very poor, but otherwise inexcusable.

Quoted so you can remember this post the next time you think people should pay more in taxes.

Remember now, money is not important.

Perhaps you should post your line of reasoning, as I can't really see it.

And do tell me your view ... what is the point of money?

It provides THE medium of fair exchange between human beings. What is the point? It's the finest thing we ever created. Without it, we would not be able to trade fairly amongst ourselves, and thus would constantly be at war with each other (much like primitive tribes always were -- because they did not have money). Speaking of money, did you know that accounting is the basis of all written languages? Primitive cultures without money never developed a written language.

Heh. This is humorous. You're either 10 or just ignorant. When you labor, how do you expect to be compensated fairly for your time? Should your client or employer pay you in chickens? And that begs the question, how many chickens make a cow? What if you don't want chickens and that's all your employer has to give? How will chickens provide for your shelter? How does one buy bread with chickens? What if the baker won't take chickens, how will you get your bread?
Hopefully, you're starting to get the point.

I asked for coffee, and you gave me a bus ticket to Kinshasa. I'd call it a strawman, but I don't think you really understood my original question.

So lets put it this way: is the point of money to have as much of it as possible? Is there anything more important in life than having as much money as possible?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: raildogg
the town is full of drugged up hippies and hippie wannabes. the streets are full of all kinds of crap, literally. and of course, the minds and hearts are full of crap as well. i have nothing against gays, but they have taken over the city. gays = women. that leads to a lot of problems that only real men can handle. a whole lot of homeless strolling the streets.

those are not so good combinations when mixed together

change the name to San Fransicko

I realize you think this is some kind of insult, but let me assure you I LIKE hearing this sort of clap-trap from conservatives. It's one of the big reasons I like SF...you guys aren't there 😉

but im not a conservative 🙂

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: PatboyX

Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals support the troops!

its ok to have nothing to add.
its ok not to post.

You forgot
It's ok to forget who is sponsoring the Iowa!

Sponsoring = PAYING

Feinstein = COLLECTING.

Damn liberals cant tell the difference.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: raildogg
the town is full of drugged up hippies and hippie wannabes. the streets are full of all kinds of crap, literally. and of course, the minds and hearts are full of crap as well. i have nothing against gays, but they have taken over the city. gays = women. that leads to a lot of problems that only real men can handle. a whole lot of homeless strolling the streets.

those are not so good combinations when mixed together

change the name to San Fransicko

I realize you think this is some kind of insult, but let me assure you I LIKE hearing this sort of clap-trap from conservatives. It's one of the big reasons I like SF...you guys aren't there 😉

And they call the Reps "Elitists", pffft.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: raildogg
the town is full of drugged up hippies and hippie wannabes. the streets are full of all kinds of crap, literally. and of course, the minds and hearts are full of crap as well. i have nothing against gays, but they have taken over the city. gays = women. that leads to a lot of problems that only real men can handle. a whole lot of homeless strolling the streets.

those are not so good combinations when mixed together

change the name to San Fransicko

I realize you think this is some kind of insult, but let me assure you I LIKE hearing this sort of clap-trap from conservatives. It's one of the big reasons I like SF...you guys aren't there 😉

but im not a conservative 🙂

Ah, still in the closet I see 😀

In any case, it was a generalization, true. But the point is that most of the people who hate SF aren't exactly the kind of people that those whole like SF want there in the first place. So it all works out 😛

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Martin
I asked for coffee, and you gave me a bus ticket to Kinshasa. I'd call it a strawman, but I don't think you really understood my original question.

So lets put it this way: is the point of money to have as much of it as possible? Is there anything more important in life than having as much money as possible?

No, and of course yes (things like family, health, life enjoyment, etc.). Money is most certainly NOT everything. However, money is the representation of labor productivity, a function of which is time, and if you think I'm going to just give you my time simply because you want to determine what's best for it, you can go to hell.
You see, IMO it's not that I'm doing a strawman, it's that you don't know what you're saying. By saying it's okay to waste a little money here and waste a little money there, what you're saying is that it's okay for people to waste their labor, and (as I already pointed out) a function of labor is time (and due to the temporary nature of human existence, time IS everything). So you're asking people to waste a portion of their lives, in particular that portion they spent laboring. All so you can have what you want (or what YOU think is best). And what are you giving us in return? Nothing but lip service it seems...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: raildogg
the town is full of drugged up hippies and hippie wannabes. the streets are full of all kinds of crap, literally. and of course, the minds and hearts are full of crap as well. i have nothing against gays, but they have taken over the city. gays = women. that leads to a lot of problems that only real men can handle. a whole lot of homeless strolling the streets.

those are not so good combinations when mixed together

change the name to San Fransicko

I realize you think this is some kind of insult, but let me assure you I LIKE hearing this sort of clap-trap from conservatives. It's one of the big reasons I like SF...you guys aren't there 😉

And they call the Reps "Elitists", pffft.

Ah yes, who's more "elitist"...there's a concept :roll:

I'm just saying, I'm glad certain people hate it so much, most of those people aren't exactly on the top of my favorite people list.

Edit: Actually, I'm more just poking fun at you guys assuming anybody cares if you like SF or not.

 

[Steeplerot]

Gotta love these haters, sorry you live in a boring place, but hey theres always the history channel if you want to see old rustbuckets....

Regardless there are plenty of old ships docked in SF, The ww2 era sub is one of my favorites, like another poster said, who cares about your military fetish.

edit: feinstein is a twat and a snake, I am not surprised she sticks her foot in her mouth again with this crap...A lot of people are embarrassed to say she is from the champion city of freedom in america.

She has been a evil figure even back when Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone were assisinated by her homophobic right wing fanatical buddies in city hall in the late 70's.
All the way up to today's pandering to big corporate interests and neocon ass-kissing.

Someone should set her adrift in the middle of the pacific.

 

[sandorski]

I did pretty well in Geography, but it has been a long time since I went to school. Is SF the only Coastal US City? Perhaps their reasons are somewhat contraversial, but I didn't hear of other cities clamouring to get this ship. Besides, where it's going will probably have the best impact from an Economic view anyway, it's not like SF needs more recognition.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: K1052
...
I'd want them to send the ship here to Chicago for preservation and display if it were possible (the locks to the great lakes can't accommodate the beam).

Yes they are, some of the barges that come into the Great Lakes are WAY bigger than the Iowa. problem is Senator Feinstein raised $3 million and 4 years getting it there from the east coast.

Wow, she actually did something I like, I'm absolutely amazed.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Gotta love these haters, sorry you live in a boring place, but hey theres always the history channel if you want to see old rustbuckets....

Regardless there are plenty of old ships docked in SF, The ww2 era sub is one of my favorites, like another poster said, who cares about your military fetish.

edit: feinstein is a twat and a snake, I am not surprised she sticks her foot in her mouth again with this crap...A lot of people are embarrassed to say she is from the champion city of freedom in america.

She has been a evil figure even back when Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone were assisinated by her homophobic right wing fanatical buddies in city hall in the late 70's.
All the way up to today's pandering to big corporate interests and neocon ass-kissing.

Someone should set her adrift in the middle of the pacific.

Well then, you need to tell your fellow San Franciscoans to stop voting for her, as she got 72.3% of the votes in SF county in her last re-election bid (2000).

 

[Steeplerot]

I personally do not know anyone who can stand feinstein, but she has been around a long time as the only choice if you want to vote dem...and just like the rest of america people are too lazy to vote a third party so they x their party line letting feinstein slide once again.

Not surprising, but pretty sad.

The only other choice we had last time around was *drum roll* a former prostitute and stripper running on a kinda gag ballot...

hmm wonder why people hold their nose and vote for her.

(and I still didn't vote for feinstein either, Jello Biafra got another write-in for a throw-away vote) 😉

Voting and democracy is a joke in CA much less their choices for federal.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'd rather like to see it here as it represents the size of our fear.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I think it would have been pretty interesting to see that ship in San Francisco. But it's still a great city, even if this ship isn't going to be there.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Martin
I asked for coffee, and you gave me a bus ticket to Kinshasa. I'd call it a strawman, but I don't think you really understood my original question.

So lets put it this way: is the point of money to have as much of it as possible? Is there anything more important in life than having as much money as possible?

No, and of course yes (things like family, health, life enjoyment, etc.). Money is most certainly NOT everything. However, money is the representation of labor productivity, a function of which is time, and if you think I'm going to just give you my time simply because you want to determine what's best for it, you can go to hell.
You see, IMO it's not that I'm doing a strawman, it's that you don't know what you're saying. By saying it's okay to waste a little money here and waste a little money there, what you're saying is that it's okay for people to waste their labor, and (as I already pointed out) a function of labor is time (and due to the temporary nature of human existence, time IS everything). So you're asking people to waste a portion of their lives, in particular that portion they spent laboring. All so you can have what you want (or what YOU think is best). And what are you giving us in return? Nothing but lip service it seems...

No, I know what I am saying, its just that you and everyone else regards these things as a waste.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Martin
I asked for coffee, and you gave me a bus ticket to Kinshasa. I'd call it a strawman, but I don't think you really understood my original question.

So lets put it this way: is the point of money to have as much of it as possible? Is there anything more important in life than having as much money as possible?

No, and of course yes (things like family, health, life enjoyment, etc.). Money is most certainly NOT everything. However, money is the representation of labor productivity, a function of which is time, and if you think I'm going to just give you my time simply because you want to determine what's best for it, you can go to hell.
You see, IMO it's not that I'm doing a strawman, it's that you don't know what you're saying. By saying it's okay to waste a little money here and waste a little money there, what you're saying is that it's okay for people to waste their labor, and (as I already pointed out) a function of labor is time (and due to the temporary nature of human existence, time IS everything). So you're asking people to waste a portion of their lives, in particular that portion they spent laboring. All so you can have what you want (or what YOU think is best). And what are you giving us in return? Nothing but lip service it seems...

No, I know what I am saying, its just that you and everyone else regards these things as a waste.

And it's THEIRS with which to decide what is waste and what is not, isn't it?