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San Francisco gun ban overturned 3-0 by higher court.
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Gerald: Wow, so, everyone here drives a hybrid, huh?
Peter: Oh, of course. We're a little more progressive and ahead of the curve here in San Franciso. [farts, then bends over to take it all in, then stands up again] Ahhhm. [licks his lips to savor every last bit of fart] Anyway, I'm sure you'll find it much better here.
Paul: Yes, you'll find that San Francisco is pretty much more open-minded and grown-up than the Midweat. [farts, then bends over to take it all in as if it were oxygen] Ahhh, [sniff] ahh, [sniff] ahh. [stands up] We're just a little bit more protective of our environment here in San Francisco
Peter: Oh, of course. We're a little more progressive and ahead of the curve here in San Franciso. [farts, then bends over to take it all in, then stands up again] Ahhhm. [licks his lips to savor every last bit of fart] Anyway, I'm sure you'll find it much better here.
Paul: Yes, you'll find that San Francisco is pretty much more open-minded and grown-up than the Midweat. [farts, then bends over to take it all in as if it were oxygen] Ahhh, [sniff] ahh, [sniff] ahh. [stands up] We're just a little bit more protective of our environment here in San Francisco
That's my problem with this whole debate. I don't disagree that people should have the right to defend themselves, but the extreme importance people place on gun ownership if you ask me. Talking to NRA folks, you get the impression that cities like Baltimore are just a few hundred AR-15s away from total peace and security where you can walk down the darkest alley in the worst part of town without fear. Guns are, at the very best, a temporary fix for the few people that are going to own them and learn how to use them correctly. Suggesting a gun is a magic wand that can solve all the problems of crime ridden parts of the country is just silly.
I agree, I just find the gun nut side of the debate far more irritating 😉. But from a purely objective standpoint, you're right, pretending the presence or absence of guns will cure all the problems in world is silly no matter which side you're on.
Personally I think guns draw a disproportionate focus because it's a cultural difference that a lot of people are really ready to focus on. I think very little of the gun debate has to do with making anyone safer, and I think it has a hell of a lot to do with the fact that a lot of non-gun owners think gun owners are rednecks and a lot of gun owners think non-gun owners are pansies.
Crime is just a convenient excuse to have the debate, but look at the comments people make...this is NOT about logical analysis and practical considerations.
VisableAssassin
Senior member
No hes a gun grabbing Nazi. Along with Hitlery and a large group of others.
New York is one of those states thats similar to Kalifornia as far as gun laws go...Criminals first law abiding citizen second.
Nebor
Lifer
So then we're in agreement that guns aren't the problem, it's the "residents" causing the problems. In a city full of absolute angels like San Fran, you could check out machine guns at the public library and not see anything bad happen. Houston, on the other hand, is full of animals.
When you're talking about large scale social problems, guns aren't the problem, and they sure as shit aren't the solution. Guns are weapons useful for attacking someone at a distance in a manner that helps make up for a lack of size or strength of the user. That's IT. I really think everyone needs to take a step back and get some perspective here...
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
I hardly know anyone who would refuse to go to a place because of a people's "castle mentality". If anything, as long as you don't threaten anyone with violence, they can be as friendly as can be. Having personal experience with Mobile, I can tell you that Southern Hospitality is alive and well in many places. Galveston...not so much.
If anything, the correllation you should be looking at is location and economy. Here, SF is light years ahead. They are far superior in terms of the industries that they have. The climate and scenery are also quite a bit better. Although Mobile is a city with a lot of history, it isn't necessarily the best tourist destination spot outside of Mardi Gras. That would be Gulf Shores. Mobile is more of an inland industrial city with access to a port, whereas GS has a beautiful beach and a very thriving tourism industry. People in GS are about as anti-gun control as the rest of the gulf coast states imho, yet, people from all over the states (especially up north) return every year.
You also have to think about infrastructure. SF is way more pedestrian-friendly, which is a huge boon for tourism. Good luck finding decent public transportation in many Southern cities. Gun control has little to do with tourism. I cannot accept the claim that it does.
Why aren't millions of tourists flooding into WI every year? WI and Ill. are the two states that don't have CCW but are not close to being tourist destinations.
So by you're logic ,or lack there of, WI should be rich because of tourism. Surprise, surprise we aren't.
Pull your head out of your ass and be happy that the Bill of Rights was upheld.
theeedude
Lifer
Gulf shore tourism does not compare to SF. SF draws in huge numbers of tourists from around the world, Gulf shore is a more regional tourist destination. It's a different effect, because the South is already a pro-gun region, so Gulf shore tourists are accustomed to the castle mentality, so it's not a big deal for them. That's not the case for the international tourists coming to SF. They come to SF because it's different from the rest of the US, much more tolerant and much less paranoid. People want to visit places with open minded chill people, they don't want to go to a place where the locals feel the need to arm themselves for protection.
K1052
Elite Member
Florida is one of the most visited states visited by international travelers right there with NY and CA. Florida is also a very gun friendly state. IIRC, Orlando alone receives more international visitors than SF by a significant margin.
Your post also personifies the Californian superiority complex that makes me loathe visiting the state on the occasions business requires me to. Funny how that doesn't happen with anywhere else I go...
As it turns out, your lame attempts at sarcasm aren't any funnier the second time around. And honestly, it's people like you that make this debate as angry and divided and difficult as it is. I don't think gun control is all that helpful, but that doesn't mean gun violence isn't a serious problem in this country. Thousands of people ARE killed by handguns every year, and I don't find that the least bit amusing. And every time you open your big mouth and mock the deaths of all those people because you don't like one of the proposed ways of saving them, I want a ban that prevents you from owning anything more dangerous than a pop gun.
Take all the anti-gun groups, all the people who think defending yourself should be against the law, all the people who think the police are the answer to all violence everywhere, add them all up and they don't even come close to the damage people like you do to gun rights and self-defense rights in this country. I'm pro gun rights and pro self-defense rights, and I think I can make some pretty convincing arguments in favor of those rights...but every time someone like you makes one of your snide, superior, smart-ass comments, the debate stops being about reasonable and logical arguments in favor of self-defense and instead becomes about how much of a wanker you are.
Yeah, because NOBODY outside of California has a superiority complex. :roll:
Give me a break, I have yet to meet a group of people more full of themselves than the folks who view themselves as "authentic Americans". I lived in the SF Bay Area for a little while, and I found the people there engaging and friendly and in no way elitist. I can't say the same about everywhere I've lived or visited.
This isn't really the topic of this thread, but I think the whole "California superiority complex" is a bunch of political bullshit pushed by people who are invested in making sure folks living in Tumbleweed, TX think of California (and SF in particular) that way.
Edit: Just because I think I need to back up what I said with an example, when I lived in the Bay Area, I used to like to visit wineries. And while some of the people there were sure as hell snobby about what THEY were drinking, I never once heard anyone disparage the choice of beverage of anyone else. I heard plenty about "nuances of oak" and how 2000 was a MUCH better year for pinot than 2001, but I never heard anyone suggest that drinking pretentious wine made them better than people who drank cheap beer. The only time I've heard comments like that is from the Miller Lite crowd outside of California. So tell me, who has the real superiority complex?
Hell, forget guns. Life is too short to go places where the folks there are going to hate me because I like good wine, sushi and jazz music instead of beer, BBQ and country. It's not about personal choices so much as it's about passing judgement on the choices of other people. I don't like SF more than Texas because San Franciscans like wine and sushi instead of beer and steak, I like 'em because them don't CARE if someone doesn't like wine and sushi.
And actually I think this has a lot to do with the gun debate as well. A lot of folks on the pro-gun side seem more interested in whether or not YOU have a gun than whether or not THEY can own a gun. And if you DON'T own a gun, well clearly you're some sort of Volvo driving, liberal sissy.
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
I never said it did or should compare to SF, quite the opposite in fact. The gulf tourist destinations are quite a bit smaller and can't handle as many people. It is not a regional tourist destination as you claim, but a semi-national one. Snow-birds are very well established there. You are correct in saying that it is in no way an international tourist destination though. Again, economics and infrastructure.
As far as your castle mentality claim goes, you might be surprised that these tourist destinations are quite a bit more liberal than the rest of the state in which they reside. The citizens in these counties do retain the right to carry if they so choose, but that is a far cry from them "feeling the need to arm themselves for protection". Heck, in some areas they still don't lock their doors at night.
This is a common misconception among those on the other side of the gun debate. Just because we want to retain the right doesn't mean we fear our fellow man so much as to all have our own personal arsenals in our basements, or walk around armed to the teeth like Rambo. Tolerance, open-mindedness and lack of paranoia has nothing whatsoever to do with support of the second amendment/opposition to extensive gun control. Some argue quite the opposite, that those people who support the second amendment are far more trusting and less paranoid of their neighbors than those who support gun control since they are willing to let their fellow citizens handle the responsibility of owning/carrying firearms.
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