San Francisco’s city pensioners make more than the average city worker.

[her209]

Public sector unions make no sense what so ever.....unless you are in the Democrat Party and need to launder tax money through the unions to the Party.

People like you want to screw over public sector employees and you wonder why public sector unions need to exist?



EDIT: I should add that some retirees do get some nice pension checks but its usually the case with higher ups. From the article, "The figures show most retirees aren't getting anywhere near the fat packages that outrage many city residents - like the $264,000 pension paid to former Police Chief Heather Fong last year." Was her pension package negotiated on her behalf by the police union? Was she even part of the police union as a Police Chief?

 

[BoomerD]

I DO think that the pension rules here need to be modified to stop the "pension spiking" that seems to be so rampant, especially by those in the top end of the state agencies.

 

[1prophet]

Fairly negotiated my ass.

Government unions hold politicians hostage through their campaign donations, or lack of donations.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0522-lopez-calprisoncosts-20110522,0,3537849.column?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews%2Flocal+%28L.A.+Times+-+California+|+Local+News%29

From the video which seems to have been removed:

Imagine the up roar if corporation posted a video about how they helped get a governor elected and that governor was going to award them a contract with all kinds of 'goodies' such as 8 weeks paid time off.

http://www.breitbart.tv/government-employee-union-brags-how-donations-scored-sweatheart-contract/

 

[OBLAMA2009]

And we wonder why California is going to hell in a hand basket.

Police and Fire pensioners making close to $100k a year?? What the hell!!!
These people are living the good life off the backs of people who earn half what they do.

And you wonder why the public is turning against public unions.

its funny every time i post about sf cops making $550,000 a year and getting 80% pay after retiring at 55 nobody believes it, or they think they deserve it?@#$%^???

 

[rudder]

Everyone bitches about pensions, but what no one ever mentions is that those pensions were paid for by the workers.
Every time there's a contract negotiation, the workers have to decide how much of a raise to allot to wages, how much to medical benefits, and how much to pensions.

The city/state has two options in these cases...pay a much higher wage now, or defer that increase into the pension plan...which they often fail to pay when it's due...leading to unfunded pension plans.

All the bitching and whining about pension plans sounds like much jealousy to me...

Pension are made through investments. Investments tanks... so does the money that was supposed to pay off pensions. The taxpayer is then called to the rescue to help pay for these overly generous pensions.

 

[Lithium381]

The big problem here is that it's public pensions and not private. If it were private there is NO issue.... but because we the taxpayers are on the hook for this it's not "fair". I don't mind workers getting pensions, they worked for it and earned it. Fine! But when I hear about promotions and raises two weeks before someone retires to bump their benefits, especially when someone is making $100k annually base salary PLUS $200k/ year in OT..... that's aggrivating. Jealousy? Sure i'd love to make $80k/ year for nothing.

Like has been mentioned, it looks good NOW, but then you realize in the long term you've just handicapped yourself because the employee in question didn't contribute at the same rate he retired at and didn't fully fund his own pension. Now i have to pay for it

 

[glenn1]

Long story short...clearly there is a problem. I'm not sure the solution is obvious or simple. Which seems self evident, since most discussions on the topic (like this one) consist almost entirely of people complaining about the situation without offering ANY kind of solution.

Why should we offer a solution? It's the city's problem, if they want to spend all their money on pensions for retired persons then they can either do without current services or raise taxes. The only time it becomes my business is when those same cities and states go running to Uncle Sam for help, and get given money in turn enabling them to keep on spending this way instead of dealing with the problem.

 

[Jhhnn]

its funny every time i post about sf cops making $550,000 a year and getting 80% pay after retiring at 55 nobody believes it, or they think they deserve it?@#$%^???

Nobody believes it because you haven't offered any credible sources.

Abuses in the SF pension system? apparently so. That's not justification for an attack on the pensions of people who've actually earned what they get, but Righties willl attempt to make it so, attack public employees' pensions everywhere.

Anything for a taxcut, right?

 

[glenn1]

Nobody believes it because you haven't offered any credible sources.

Abuses in the SF pension system? apparently so. That's not justification for an attack on the pensions of people who've actually earned what they get, but Righties willl attempt to make it so, attack public employees' pensions everywhere.

Anything for a taxcut, right?

Righties don't live in your city (by choice) and don't give a shit how much you pay in taxes. The more you pay the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

[bfdd]

Actually, public sector unions are probably among the BEST cases for unions in some form. Unlike in most other industries, the government is close to a monopoly employer in many public sector jobs. Absent a competitive employment environment, public sector unions help ensure fair treatment of employees.

I disagree completely. Government is already a form of union, to encapsulate more unions into a union is going to cause issues which we are starting to see today.

 

[Jhhnn]

Righties don't live in your city (by choice) and don't give a shit how much you pay in taxes. The more you pay the better as far as I'm concerned.

So you really have nothing to say, but feel emotionally compelled to speak anyway.

Regionally, Righties want everything their way. They want to enjoy the tax advantage of living in the northern suburbs, work in the southern, drive back & forth across the City & County of Denver as if roads are free. They want to hunt, fish, & camp on public land, but don't want to pay for habitat conservation efforts, stocking of fish or maintenance of campgrounds, let alone enforcement of bag & possession limits. They don't want low income housing in their communities, but they want the low income workers who perform domestic duties & staff the establishments they enjoy. They definitely don't want their own mentally ill cousins, sisters & uncles living anywhere near them- they want them somewhere else, like in the city core. They want cheaper gas so they can move even further out, fast internet when they get there, along with fire protection, paramedics, road maintenance, snow plows & everything else, too, just so long as somebody else pays for it.

Most of all, they want to whine like the hypocrites they truly are.

 

[bfdd]

So you really have nothing to say, but feel emotionally compelled to speak anyway.

Regionally, Righties want everything their way. They want to enjoy the tax advantage of living in the northern suburbs, work in the southern, drive back & forth across the City & County of Denver as if roads are free. They want to hunt, fish, & camp on public land, but don't want to pay for habitat conservation efforts, stocking of fish or maintenance of campgrounds, let alone enforcement of bag & possession limits. They don't want low income housing in their communities, but they want the low income workers who perform domestic duties & staff the establishments they enjoy. They definitely don't want their own mentally ill cousins, sisters & uncles living anywhere near them- they want them somewhere else, like in the city core. They want cheaper gas so they can move even further out, fast internet when they get there, along with fire protection, paramedics, road maintenance, snow plows & everything else, too, just so long as somebody else pays for it.

Most of all, they want to whine like the hypocrites they truly are.

You say "righties" but a lot of that is just people period. I mean I see those who push for more of the same when it comes to social services as being racists for wanting to perpetuate the systems put into place by racists. Yet most of those people will yell at others for being racist when they come out against it. Why is that? Could it just be that people are selfish idiots? Yeah, it's probably that one. Trying to break "selfish idiots" into any specific group other than "humans" is dumb imo.

 

[ProfJohn]

What we want is for public employees to have pay and benefits that are reasonable.

Collecting a $100,000 a year pension is not reasonable, nor is collecting more than the average citizen earns per year.

We are probably heading towards Greece like austerity within a decade at the rate we are going. Our government is too expensive and it is going to blow up on us soon.

 

[Jhhnn]

You say "righties" but a lot of that is just people period. I mean I see those who push for more of the same when it comes to social services as being racists for wanting to perpetuate the systems put into place by racists. Yet most of those people will yell at others for being racist when they come out against it. Why is that? Could it just be that people are selfish idiots? Yeah, it's probably that one. Trying to break "selfish idiots" into any specific group other than "humans" is dumb imo.

You obviously don't understand who actually receives welfare-

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n21_v90/ai_18744024/

What you said doesn't match reality, at all, but mere facts are unlikely to influence your opinion, such as it is.

 

[bfdd]

You obviously don't understand who actually receives welfare-

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n21_v90/ai_18744024/

What you said doesn't match reality, at all, but mere facts are unlikely to influence your opinion, such as it is.

No I clearly understand what is going on between the two sides hence my statement. Humans are selfish assholes, Democratic or Republican is irrelevant.

 

[Jhhnn]

No I clearly understand what is going on between the two sides hence my statement. Humans are selfish assholes, Democratic or Republican is irrelevant.

Meh. I mostly referenced your off the wall reference to welfare as racism.

As for the rest of it, you're just running the usual false equivalency mantra of the Right- "They're just as Bad!" when that's not true at all.

We're all greedy to some extent or another. It's somewhat understandable with people who have little, yet a glaring character fault among those who have a very great deal, indeed. One party has greed as their motto, Greed is Good!, and promotes emulation of, deference to, even downright worship of the greediest "successes" among us, and it's not Democrats. The greed of city workers' wrt pensions fades to nothing in the face of greed at the top among the financial elite, and we all need to recognize that.

 

[ProfJohn]

The greed of city workers' wrt pensions fades to nothing in the face of greed at the top among the financial elite, and we all need to recognize that.

Except the city workers take their money from the rest of the working class via taxes.

The elite earn their money through their businesses or stocks etc etc. Sure the elite have too much money, but at least they aren't digging into my pocket forcibly.

 

[Nebor]

Except the city workers take their money from the rest of the working class via taxes.

The elite earn their money through their businesses or stocks etc etc. Sure the elite have too much money, but at least they aren't digging into my pocket forcibly.

This is where he tells you that the "financial elite" take their money from the rest of the working class too.

 

[ayabe]

This is where he tells you that the "financial elite" take their money from the rest of the working class too.

So oil speculators aren't directly extracting wealth from the US working class? That's an obvious and irrefutable example of just the sort of thing he's talking about.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is where he tells you that the "financial elite" take their money from the rest of the working class too.

That's the basis of a capitalist market economy. Not only do we all support the govt with taxes, we support the financial elite with profits.

Both sides of that have mandatory & voluntary elements. Nobody is forced to earn enormous income & therefore pay high taxes, but we all have to participate in the economy to some degree or another, and the financial elite takes, or tries to take, a piece off the top of every higher level transaction. Mortgage. Rent. Utilities. Insurance. Food. Medicine. Clothing. Electronics. Transportation. Communications. Name it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Those are some ghastly damn pensions for what they did. 30 years and $74k/year average?

Those pensioners were smart. Instead of working in the Private Sector making more money and trusting that the economy would stay great and that the companies they worked for would take care of them they took lower wages with better benefits. Good for them, it turns out they were wiser than their Private Sector counterparts.

 

[ProfJohn]

So oil speculators aren't directly extracting wealth from the US working class? That's an obvious and irrefutable example of just the sort of thing he's talking about.

The difference is that the government TAKES from the middle class by force.

The wealthy earn their money because people choose to give it to them.

Bill Gates has too much money so I won't buy another MS product.
Government has too much money... not much I can do about it huh?

 

[BoomerD]

This is where he tells you that the "financial elite" take their money from the rest of the working class too.

Aren't you in the US military? What about military pensions? Should those also be slashed?
After all, IIRC, 20 years = 1/2 of your pay at retirement, 30 years = 3/4 of your pay at retirement...and your medical benefits continue until your death.

(it looks like Congress changed that slightly in the 80's, so the 1/2 and 3/4 might not be totally accurate...but close)

 

[First]

Except the city workers take their money from the rest of the working class via taxes.

The elite earn their money through their businesses or stocks etc etc. Sure the elite have too much money, but at least they aren't digging into my pocket forcibly.

They're digging into your pocket via tax breaks that have to be paid for indirectly through the interest the federal/state gov'ts pay on debt financing to afford those tax credits/breaks, which falls on tax-paying Americans. Businesses don't really "earn" anything more than puny salaries of public sector union employees if they're getting tax breaks/credits. It's just another form of welfare; corporate welfare.

 

[Nebor]

Aren't you in the US military? What about military pensions? Should those also be slashed?
After all, IIRC, 20 years = 1/2 of your pay at retirement, 30 years = 3/4 of your pay at retirement...and your medical benefits continue until your death.

(it looks like Congress changed that slightly in the 80's, so the 1/2 and 3/4 might not be totally accurate...but close)

Yup, I advocate doing away with them entirely, like the Australian military has done. You want to retire, you invest to make it happen.