Samsung Wins Appeal Against Apple In Australia

[WelshBloke]

I can tell the difference, I bet my neighbors can't, I was talking to him about his new android phone he said "no no, this isn't a Motorola Droid. it's a Samsung Galaxy" It took me 3 minutes of explaining for him to understand it ran Android and Galaxy was just the name of the phone. During this conversation he also said he didn't get the Moto Droid because he didn't want an Android phone. I'd bet money there are more people like him than people who understand shit. Anything that looks even 50% like an iPad will be an iPad in his eyes.

So?

Are you saying because your neighbour is technologically challenged then Samsung should be forced to make pink cuboid tablets?

My mum probably couldnt tell the difference between that electronic picture frame and an iPad. Does that mean Apple copied Samsung?

 

[Red Storm]

I can tell the difference, I bet my neighbors can't, I was talking to him about his new android phone he said "no no, this isn't a Motorola Droid. it's a Samsung Galaxy" It took me 3 minutes of explaining for him to understand it ran Android and Galaxy was just the name of the phone. Before he understood. he had said he didn't get the Moto Droid because he didn't want an Android phone. I'd bet money there are more people like him than people who understand shit. Anything that looks even 50% like an iPad will be an iPad in his eyes.

... and, what? Are we now basing things solely on the opinions of those who don't know what the terms Android and iOS mean, or those who think an iPhone 4 is 4G capable? These people have always made up the majority of tech consumers, so what? Are you really saying that we should all think "Yes, because this Average Joe here doesn't know the difference between two different products, we should all agree that they are one and the same."?

 

[Oyeve]

Back in the 80s everyone called every personal cassette player a walkman.

 

[manly]

In the case of the software or icons I can understand Apple's complaint. I won't lie, when I first messed with the original Samsung Galaxy Tab I thought "man they are really trying to rip off Apple."

With that said, my current SGS2 has very little similarities to that device or any Apple device in software. The Galaxy Tab is even less similar with its near default Honeycomb which is completely different than iOS.

I don't mind protecting your software or protecting your brand. I DO mind protecting an obvious hardware design, which the iPad surely is. That is the antithesis to progress.

I am not a lawyer but I see some validity to Apple's trade dress claims.
Apple sues Samsung: a complete lawsuit analysis

In general, software patenting does feel like reform is in order.

 

[MagickMan]

Thats because you are wrong.

I've repeatedly pointed out they are different shapes and both have very visible identifying marks on, but you seem keen on harping on about some indefinable "feel" that Samsung have copied.

No, because you can't be objective and it would be a waste of time and effort.

 

[MagickMan]

I am not a lawyer but I see some validity to Apple's trade dress claims.
Apple sues Samsung: a complete lawsuit analysis

In general, software patenting does feel like reform is in order.

That sums it up well. Many don't care because Apple is successful, but it doesn't change the fact that they're being blatantly copied without being paid.

Yes, the software patent system needs to be rethought, I agree with that 100%.

 

[WelshBloke]

No, because you can't be objective and it would be a waste of time and effort.

OK being objective.

Are they the same shape?

Are they made of the same materials?

Do they have identifying marks on the front?

Do they have identifying marks on the back?

Are these marks different?

Is the layout of buttons or controls the same on both tablets?

Do you think Samsung should be allowed to make a tablet at all, and if so how should it differ from the one they made?

 

[Medu]

Can I? Yes. Can the average guy looking for a tablet because he heard they are cool? Nope. Looks about the same to him. I watched people at Best Buy debating different "iPads" and one lady turned to her husband and said, "this iPad is cheaper (she pointed at some Coby thing) and it looks the same, get it".

Apple is being copied, blatantly, to say otherwise is to look at the whole issue with "green-tinted" glasses. I have both Android and Apple products, I like them all, but it only takes a little bit of attention to notice that there are some shenanigans afoot.

And people call vacuums cleaners hoovers and music players walkmans.

What would you like the other companies to do? White with pink dots? Oh wait they also need not curve edges because Apple invented that- it's like every product before the iPad had razor corners. It's pretty obvious why a tablet wouldn't want a 90 angle at the corners.

The only "shenanigans afoot" that I see is the way the media help Apple dominate markets. Tablets are no longer tablets, they are iPads- not Apple iPad's, just iPads.

 

[s44]

If Apple can claim that then TiVo should have been able to claim all DVRs as they are all rectangular devices that record TV shows digitally.

Actually, all DVR makers pay TiVo license fees. Dish didn't, and they got their asses sued off and lost. They were lucky to settle for $500mil during the appeals process (TiVo needed cash badly).

But those were actual process patents, not look-and-feel (which, as we learned from the Windows case, isn't actually protected). Apple is suing under some consumer confusion theory, which is total BS. Their brand is so well-known that anyone making a purchase will ask for (and get) an "iPad" or "Apple" if she wants one. The giant "Samsung" on the top of the Tab should itself end any such case.

 

[MagickMan]

OK being objective.

Are they the same shape?

Are they made of the same materials?

Do they have identifying marks on the front?

Do they have identifying marks on the back?

Are these marks different?

Is the layout of buttons or controls the same on both tablets?

Do you think Samsung should be allowed to make a tablet at all, and if so how should it differ from the one they made?

Of course they should, but they should pay Apple a fee for their patents.

 

[zoiks]

I find it amusing to see Apple fans and mostly Apple itself complaining about somebody else copying their product (which they really are not) given their own history of copying other companies.
In the Steve Jobs book, it's well stated that SJ pretty much stole the concept of the gui and mouse from Xerox. When Microsoft did the same thing, SJ was furious. He had Gates come down to Cupertino and the developers sat around looking at SJ scream. Steve said the same thing that Microsoft was stealing from them. According to the book, Gates listened coolly and responded back "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

 

[MagickMan]

Yes, yes, because they stole from Xerox it's okay for everyone to steal from them, we get it. 65,000 wrongs make a right... or is that a spiral?

 

[zoiks]

Yes, yes, because they stole from Xerox it's okay for everyone to steal from them, we get it. 65,000 wrongs make a right... or is that a spiral?

Kind of ironic that a robber bitches about being stolen from if he's a thief himself.

 

[MagickMan]

I get it, I get it. Everyone steals when it comes to tech patents. We just need to do away with them and let total anarchy reign. Protecting intellectual property is for chimps, I mean chumps... err, whatever.

 

[badb0y]

I find it amusing to see Apple fans and mostly Apple itself complaining about somebody else copying their product (which they really are not) given their own history of copying other companies.
In the Steve Jobs book, it's well stated that SJ pretty much stole the concept of the gui and mouse from Xerox. When Microsoft did the same thing, SJ was furious. He had Gates come down to Cupertino and the developers sat around looking at SJ scream. Steve said the same thing that Microsoft was stealing from them. According to the book, Gates listened coolly and responded back "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

I have the book right here and it seems like Apple and Xerox made a stock agreement for a chance to look at Xerox's tech.

Here's the full quote:
"Jobs made an offer: 'I will let you invest a million dollars in Apple if you will open the kimono at PARC.' Xerox accepted. It agreed to show Apple its new technology and in return got to buy 100,000 shares at about $10 each." Page 170 on the iPad Chapter 8.

Xerox made a shitty deal but you can't blame Apple for taking advantage of it.

 

[Necrolezbeast]

Can I? Yes. Can the average guy looking for a tablet because he heard they are cool? Nope. Looks about the same to him. I watched people at Best Buy debating different "iPads" and one lady turned to her husband and said, "this iPad is cheaper (she pointed at some Coby thing) and it looks the same, get it".

Apple is being copied, blatantly, to say otherwise is to look at the whole issue with "green-tinted" glasses. I have both Android and Apple products, I like them all, but it only takes a little bit of attention to notice that there are some shenanigans afoot.

Like 90% of the population still calls generic MP3 players iPods... I even hear people call Zune's iPods... does this mean that Apple should start opening up lawsuits against anyone that has made a device that plays digital audio stored on flash media?

Just because the general public doesn't know techie stuff doesn't mean it's a blatant ripoff... it just means they know just enough to know the name of the most popular of it's kind, which happens to be.... the iPad... oh well, that's what they get for such a great product, everybody knows their stuff and refers to the competition as iPads and iPods when they clearly aren't... it's a household name, oh no.. Can the average consumer tell the difference between an Acer and a Dell? Probably not... does that mean that there is infringement happening, probably not...

As for comparing tablets from the 1990's and early 2000's, that's just stupid. Do you think they had all the tech available at the time to put out a thin design with a tiny bezel? Of course not, especially when these things ran a full fledged OS that took some decent (for the time) horsepower to run, thus requiring quite a bit of room in there to throw in notebook equipment... Apple had a good idea to use the ARM hardware to power a thin device that finally became possible with the technology that became available during that time, they were the first that used a mobile OS.... they shouldn't be the only ones, competition is good; get out from under your iRock and enjoy the sunshine sometime (p.s. leave your iGlasses under the iRock when you finally do make it out)

 

[WelshBloke]

Of course they should, but they should pay Apple a fee for their patents.

So by skipping the proceeding questions I guess we can assume that you now acknowledge that they don't look that similar?

 

[cheezy321]

I find it amusing to see Apple fans and mostly Apple itself complaining about somebody else copying their product (which they really are not) given their own history of copying other companies.
In the Steve Jobs book, it's well stated that SJ pretty much stole the concept of the gui and mouse from Xerox. When Microsoft did the same thing, SJ was furious. He had Gates come down to Cupertino and the developers sat around looking at SJ scream. Steve said the same thing that Microsoft was stealing from them. According to the book, Gates listened coolly and responded back "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

Let me guess: You have never actually read the Steve Jobs book? Nowhere in there does it state he stole the concept. He paid to use the concept. This is well documented. Microsoft did steal the concept. Apple paid for it. How many times do we have to go thru with this?

 

[cheezy321]

So by skipping the proceeding questions I guess we can assume that you now acknowledge that they don't look that similar?

I guess you can now acknowledge that products like this should be allowed too?

Where do you actually draw the line? It seems like all you need for the product to be different is have a different brand name on it. Bam, slap samsung on the product and its a completely different looking product!

 

[Red Storm]

Where do you actually draw the line? It seems like all you need for the product to be different is have a different brand name on it. Bam, slap samsung on the product and its a completely different looking product!

And yet again, another Apple defender skips out on actually answering the questions asked...

 

[cheezy321]

And yet again, another Apple defender skips out on actually answering the questions asked...

What? Ive already said in this thread I think they look similar. Fuck, Samsungs OWN LAWYERS said they look similar and couldn't tell the difference. I know the line for android users is how stupid the Samsung lawyers are, but I can bet a pretty penny they are smarter than the peanut gallery on this forum.

Do I think that apple should be able to cease Samsung from making these tablets? fuck no, I want competition.

Do I think samsung blatantly copied apple with their galaxy tab design and should pay some sort of restitution for it? Fuck yes.

 

[Red Storm]

They aren't identical in size.

They aren't identical in shape.

They aren't identical in software.

They aren't identical in appearance (where's that iconic Apple home button on the Galaxy Tab?).

What they do share in common is that they are both rectangular shaped devices with black bezels. So what are you saying Apple owns here? The rectangle? Black bezels? What about the white iPad, does Apple also own white bezels too?

They also have completely different names (alluding to the pointless pictures in your previous post).

 

[cheezy321]

They aren't identical in size.

They aren't identical in shape.

They aren't identical in software.

They aren't identical in appearance (where's that iconic Apple home button on the Galaxy Tab?).

What they do share in common is that they are both rectangular shaped devices with black bezels. So what are you saying Apple owns here? The rectangle? Black bezels? What about the white iPad, does Apple also own white bezels too?

They also have completely different names (alluding to the pointless pictures in your previous post).

Ok, so the same things you said here also apply to the pictures I supplied above. So are those not blatant copies of the Playstation and the PS3?

 

[BenSkywalker]

Where do you actually draw the line? It seems like all you need for the product to be different is have a different brand name on it. Bam, slap samsung on the product and its a completely different looking product!

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...4&blockType=G4

Five seconds of looking. The rather staggering issue, is Apple blatantly ripped off the design of modern TVs and then tried to put a patent on it. They completely, 100% stole the design. Blatant rip off. Complete copy. Disgustingly shameless. Now, they try to sue one of the companies that helped make modern designs look like that and say they copied them. Black rectangle, bezel, a display in the center? All things Samsung offered on their TVs long before the iPad came out. Clearly, Apple should be sued for this absurd rip off of epic levels.

Apple needs to pay the TV companies for creating black rectangles. Furthermore, the iPad displays both static and moving images, something else that the TV companies were doing long before Apple. It is sickening the level of copying Apple is allowed to get away with without paying the TV companies for the tons of innovations they clearly stole.

 

[cheezy321]

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...4&blockType=G4

Five seconds of looking. The rather staggering issue, is Apple blatantly ripped off the design of modern TVs and then tried to put a patent on it. They completely, 100% stole the design. Blatant rip off. Complete copy. Disgustingly shameless. Now, they try to sue one of the companies that helped make modern designs look like that and say they copied them. Black rectangle, bezel, a display in the center? All things Samsung offered on their TVs long before the iPad came out. Clearly, Apple should be sued for this absurd rip off of epic levels.

Apple needs to pay the TV companies for creating black rectangles. Furthermore, the iPad displays both static and moving images, something else that the TV companies were doing long before Apple. It is sickening the level of copying Apple is allowed to get away with without paying the TV companies for the tons of innovations they clearly stole.

This is why you cant have a rational conversation with a fandroid. Comparing TV's to tablets? Are you going to bring up the samsung digital photo frame too? lets talk about fictional tablets shown in sci-fi movies too! durp durp!