Samsung Syncmaster 193P+

[andekar]

The new Samsung monitor look promising...

Spec:
Panel Type a-si TFT/PVA
Viewable Size 19"
Pixel Pitch 0.294mm
Brightness (Typical) 250 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio 1000:1
Viewing Angle (Horizontal/Vertical) 178°/178°
Aspect Ratio 5:4
Interface Analog/Digital
Response Time 8ms (G to G)
Native Resolution 1280 x 1024
Maximum Color 16.7M
Input Video Signal Analog RGB, DVI Digital Link
Sync Type Separate H/V, Composite H/V, SOG
Input Connectors 15-Pin D-Sub, S-Video, RCA Connector, TV (Antenna/Cable)
Max Power Consumption 40 Watts
VESA® Wall Mount 75mm
Emission Standard TCO ?99


What do you think of this?
Anybody that knows when it will be released in Europe??

 

[us3rnotfound]

Among my favorite for the 19" LCD line. That panel is what Dell used to use for their 1905fp.

 

[hojoprime]

Originally posted by: us3rnotfound
Among my favorite for the 19" LCD line. That panel is what Dell used to use for their 1905fp.

Incorrect, the panel found in the Samsung 193P is what Dell used for their 1905FP, both rated with a response time of 20ms. The new Samsung, the 193P+, is rated at 8ms, outstanding for a PVA panel. Too good to be true I suspect.

 

[nowaynoway]

Got one today at Futureshop. Compared with BenQ FP937s using DVI. Celeron 1.3 Tualatin, 384 MB RAM, ATI All-In-Wonder 9000 Pro.


First (and second) Impressions:


The Good:
Very clear and colorful. Hardly any blurring while scrolling black text on white web pages, much better than my 12ms BenQ FP937s. Text quality best I've seen on LCD or CRT.

More Good:
No bad pixels, no backlight leakage problems, wide view angle, includes DVI
cable and wall mount hardware.

Unknowns:
Not a gamer, so performance unknown. Gamers should wait until proper reviews are in.

Some Confusion:
At first I detected some color trails but must have been due to incorrect ATI graphics card settings or ??? because the problem is gone now. Did not install any Samsung
software.

Keeping?:
Yes. I always thought I was CRT diehard and have tried and returned to store MANY lcd's, but this is the first one I will keep..I don't think I would ever find a TN panel that would be satisfactory because I am very sensitive to limited viewing angle. (I can't stand having to "keep my head in a vice" to prevent the edges of white web pages from going yellow.)

 

[bcoupland]

I've been reading up on the 193P+. When I first saw the specs, I was amazed and excited with the possibility of 8-bit colour with 8ms response times. Alas, this was too good to be true. While the panel is a PVA panel, it uses overdrive technology to acheive the low respnse times. Note that the 8ms timings from Samsung are referred to as "Gray-to-Gray", rather than the standard black-white-black. This means that while Gray-to-Gray response times are much improved over a non-overdrive PVA panel, the times for colors, blacks, and whites have become much slower. So, with an overdrive panel the blurriness will be most noticed with non-grays. However, the 193P+ should still have excellent image quality.

 

[us3rnotfound]

But, isn't it true that the 193p+'s settings can only be controlled by software?

 

[nowaynoway]

Originally posted by: us3rnotfound
But, isn't it true that the 193p+'s settings can only be controlled by software?

Yes, since there's no OSD. I just installed the driver and then used my ATI Control Panel software to control stuff rather than using Samsung's software. Many of the options in the Samsung software aren't available anyway using DVI so I didn't bother installing.

 

[Spacecomber]

Originally posted by: bcoupland
While the panel is a PVA panel, it uses overdrive technology to acheive the low respnse times. Note that the 8ms timings from Samsung are referred to as "Gray-to-Gray", rather than the standard black-white-black. This means that while Gray-to-Gray response times are much improved over a non-overdrive PVA panel, the times for colors, blacks, and whites have become much slower. So, with an overdrive panel the blurriness will be most noticed with non-grays.

I haven't heard of this being a problem with overdrive monitors. Can you explain a little more about how only the grey colors are imroved but not the other shades of color? It's not making sense to me, since grey is made up of various shades of all three subpixels.

Space

 

[hojoprime]

Originally posted by: bcoupland
Note that the 8ms timings from Samsung are referred to as "Gray-to-Gray", rather than the standard black-white-black. This means that while Gray-to-Gray response times are much improved over a non-overdrive PVA panel, the times for colors, blacks, and whites have become much slower. So, with an overdrive panel the blurriness will be most noticed with non-grays. However, the 193P+ should still have excellent image quality.

I don't believe it works this way. Black, white, gray ... they all refer to the luminance values of the liquid crystals. Every color has a corresponding luminence value and therefore a corresponding shade of gray. Therefore "gray to gray" refers to colors as well as greyscale images - at least that's the way I understand it. I believe this panel's ISO rating (black-white-black response time) is about 16ms, but the fact that it's so fast "gray to gray" means that you shouldn't see any ghosting in games. Non-overdrive PVA can have gray to gray response times as high as 100ms.

 

[nombrecinq]

Anybody know when this monitor will be affordable in the States?

 

[ChuckHsiao]

Think about some fluorescent bulbs. When you first turn them on, they're still kind of dark, and only after they get warmed up do they reach their maximum brightness. LCD's are more or less the same -- when changing to a color, it sets the voltage to what's appropriate for that color, and waits for the liquid crystals to reach equilibrium. Unfortunately this takes a while, and the time it takes to reach equilibrium is the response time measurement (or at least, is supposed to be; manufacturers use their own definitions that's most advantageous to them). The LCD part itself doesn't actually have any color; the red/green/blue comes from a color filter layer. So this whole white/gray/black business has to do with the intensity of the light that's let through, not the color. White means maximum brightness (for any color), black means minimum brightness, and gray means anywhere in between.

For LCDs, it's actually the gray-to-gray transitions that take more time. The reason is that the speed that it turns is higher for bigger transitions. Thus, going from 128 to 160 brightness is a smaller gap than 0 to 255, but it also moves a lot slower for the first transition than for the second, and actually, the speed it moves is more important than the absolute distance. So monitors that are 25 ms on the ISO definition of response time (black-white-black) go up to like 50 or 75 ms in the gray transitions. However, manufacturers use "gray to gray" not "gray to gray to gray" (note that ISO means time to go black to white PLUS time to go white to black, the sum of two transitions, not one) so you should double any gray to gray numbers when comparing with standard black-white-black numbers (or, divide black-white-black numbers by two).

Overdrive just means to temporarily set the voltage to higher than what's intended. For example, if you're going from 32 to 160, you set it as if you want to go from 32 to 192 for one frame Then the next frame, you set it back to what you intended. So this way (assuming the screen reaches 75% of the difference per frame) at the end of the frame, it's already at 160 rather than 128. This takes advantage of the fact that larger transitions are quicker for LCDs than small ones. That's the idea, anyway. Manufacturers do their own thing with it. Note that the properties of the liquid crystal itself has not changed one bit -- this is purely the monitor's IC tricking the monitor into trying to produce another image, such that it becomes what you wanted by the next time. It is essentially a software trick rather than an actual hardware (i.e. LCD material properties) improvement.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I own this monitor and find it very good for games. I don't notice any ghosting in Doom3, Half-Life 2, Farcry, Quake3, UT2004.

I do notice some very slight blur on some things with extreme movement that wouldn't be found under normal gameplay. I am comparing this to CRT as I have never owned a LCD ever. This Monitor stands up very well with some very good CRTs I've had to compare with.

Text is also nice and clean much better than I expected. Blacks are deep, and whites are bright without being overbearing. Price is an issue with it, but there was a rebate available for it which is why I got it.

 

[Redox]

I've had this monitor for about a month now and am very pleased with it. I use it mainly for gaming and do not personally find any problems with ghosting. Very solid build quality - seems better constructed than the Samsung 930B and no backlight leakage.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nowaynoway
Some Confusion:
At first I detected some color trails but must have been due to incorrect ATI graphics card settings or ??? because the problem is gone now. Did not install any Samsung
software.

That's "Overdrive". They have to use that to speed up response time on PVA panels, by increasing the voltage, which works "better" for some colors compared to others. It makes the decaying pixels rather bright. I don't know the exact explanation of it, but Tom's Hardware describes it in their VP191b article.

Originally posted by: nowaynoway

Originally posted by: us3rnotfound
But, isn't it true that the 193p+'s settings can only be controlled by software?

Yes, since there's no OSD. I just installed the driver and then used my ATI Control Panel software to control stuff rather than using Samsung's software. Many of the options in the Samsung software aren't available anyway using DVI so I didn't bother installing.

It's not the same. Samsung's software provides direct access to your monitor whereas ATI's just adjusts your video card's output. Quite a big difference here. Why they didn't include an OSD is beyond me. Stupid decision IMO. BTW, I hear that software doesn't even work on all video cards. GeForce 6 series were not listed on the supported card list. I know that the last two versions crash on my PC, so if I had no OSD, say bye-bye to ANY monitor controls.

 

[xtknight]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Unkno]

it was supposedly be a "feature" of the 193p+ to not include an OSD, it was an attempt to make it look more simple and cleaner...

wow, 1750+ views and only 14 posts...This is why anandtech needs to compare the newest/best lcds. Anyways, i have read many reviews and customer opinions, and to sum it all up. the 193P+ is a great lcd, with little or no ghosting. Some notice ghosting, while others didn't notice any at all. The colors are amazing and the design is superb. There had also been a thread on another forum where people were comparing the 193P+ to the Viewsonic VP191B...it was decided that the Samsung 193+ is just a little better overall than the VP191B.
Although all of this was just from reviews, I myself am planning on buying a 193P+ soon.

 

[Redox]

I've had no problem with the OSD using a 7800 GTX. I just keep a shortcut in my quick launch tool bar and it's no problem.

The monitor does have a very "clean" look without any buttons on it, except for the cool blue power light and touch sensitive on/off switch.