Samsung LCD Bulging Capacitor Problem-Many Models

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ICXRa

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
5,924
0
71
I'm really not too interested in Samsung products, or more wary that they might have problems :\.

Same here!

It is disappointing with all the complaints coming in over at consumer affairs that the law firm decided to not follow through with the class action lawsuit. like the poster above my set gets limited use as it's in a secondary room so I fear the problem will not show up until Samsung has decided to stop repairing these sets.

Some comments over on AVS, if I recall correctly, made mention that Samsung was about to end the out of warranty replacement of the caps.
 

GrumpyMan

Diamond Member
May 14, 2001
5,780
266
136
After I fixed my set it is still working great. I am disappointed that the law firm decided not to go through with the suit. I will no longer buy Samsung products whether they be TVs or phones or whatever. Just don't trust them anymore and they have worse customer service than Asus, if that's at all possible......
 

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
After I fixed my set it is still working great. I am disappointed that the law firm decided not to go through with the suit. I will no longer buy Samsung products whether they be TVs or phones or whatever. Just don't trust them anymore and they have worse customer service than Asus, if that's at all possible......


I find this interesting. Our perceptions are based upon personal experience and for me I would prefer to buy a Samsung over another brand. I have a 5 year old Samsung monitor and a year-old 46" TV and neither have given me a problem.

Now, if it were a dishwasher I would avoid LG like the plague!
 

ICXRa

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
5,924
0
71
Guess I spoke to fast! This just came in from the law firm I originally did a survey for.

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding the problems you have experienced with your Samsung TV. I am writing to inform you that Lieff, Cabraser, Heimann & Bernstein, LLP ("LCHB") is no longer investigating the problems associated with this product, and that we will not represent you in connection with this matter.

If you are interested in pursuing the case, please contact Steven A. Schwartz at Chimicles & Tikellis LLP. Chimicles & Tikellis has filed a case against Samsung for the capacitors. Steven A Schwartz can be reached at (610) 642-8500 ext. 319 or (610) 649-3633.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to review your potential claim. If you should need our assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Very best regards,


Looks like you need to have experienced TV Failure not just symptoms.

http://chimicles.com/case/samsung-television
 
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pkrosenlegal

Junior Member
Nov 2, 2010
2
0
0
I am an attorney with the Rosen Law Firm and we focus our practice on class actions and actions involving fraud.
We are conducting an investigation into reported allegations concerning a design defect in Samsung LCD, Plasma, and DLP televisions (the "TVs") that have caused the TVs to prematurely fail and causing the TVs to turn off and/or failing to turn off or on. Commentators on the internet have described this as the "clicking" issue or problem.


According to these allegations, Samsung has known of these problems as a result of an avalanche of consumer complaints posted on the internet, industry articles, and complaints taken at Samsung's consumer call centers.
According to the numerous consumer complaints posted on the web, many of these TV problems arise shortly after the expiration of the manufacturer's one year warranty as a result of the TV defects. Yet, Samsung represented in its marketing materials that "the average LCD life span is measured in hours and is usually in the tens of thousands of hours." Likewise, Samsung represented in its marketing that "the Samsung Plasma TVs will offer a life span of up to 100,000 hours under optimal conditions."


As a result of this adverse information, the Rosen Law Firm is preparing a class action lawsuit against Samsung on behalf of all persons who purchased new plasma, LCD, or DLP television manufactured, distributed or sold by Samsung under the Samsung brand name in the United States on or after October 1, 2004 to present, whose TV suffers from the design defect described above.
If you would like information about our proposed class action or your legal rights, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Phillip Kim, Esq.
The Rosen Law Firm, P.A.
275 Madison Avenue, 34th Floor

New York, New York 10016
Tel: (212) 686-1060
Fax: (2120 202-3827
pkim@rosenlegal.com
 

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
7,318
4
76
Samsung agreed to fix mine and my sisters LN-T46xx sets for free, just recently. The sets were both 3 years old, originally turned on with pink pixels, and then started turning on really slow. Guess they are aware of the attention they are getting regarding this and are making good on the complaints. Their support rep was interested in the manufacture date though, and some forums are reporting that people were denied if it was manufactured before October 2007. Ours were November of 07 so we were ok. They had a local repair shop come out and fix them.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
11
81
I would recommend replacing with higher-grade capacitors from reputable brands like United Chemi-Con, Rubycon, Nichicon, etc.

Digi-Key is a pretty good place to shop. They also have a good catalog where you can look up product datasheets directly.
 

Doug0915

Junior Member
Jan 24, 2011
8
0
0
So I've been reading the forums and it seems some people are buying 1000uf 35v and others are buying 2200uf 35v.

My TV went bad a year ago, Samsung fixed it and now it's dying again (took 8 tries to power on this morning).

I can't open it up to see which ones are bad until I get home, but if I were to go to Radio Shack should I just get some of both before going home to replace them? Or should I wait to open it and see if I can divine which ones are bulging?

thanks!
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Wait and see what the exact values may be. Higher values are usually larger in size and may not fit.
Also be careful with radio shack caps, they buy from who is cheapest not who has the highest quality.
 

Doug0915

Junior Member
Jan 24, 2011
8
0
0
Wait and see what the exact values may be. Higher values are usually larger in size and may not fit.
Also be careful with radio shack caps, they buy from who is cheapest not who has the highest quality.

That's the safe route ;)

I was just trying to avoid having to go home and turn the TV off to find out (cause it will probably not come back on). If I had the stuff in hand I could turn it off and then fix it. Radio shack is within walking distance of work, I'd have to drive out to get them once I got home and took the TV apart.

Oh well. Guess there aren't any shortcuts to doing the job right :)
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Wait and see what the exact values may be. Higher values are usually larger in size and may not fit.
Also be careful with radio shack caps, they buy from who is cheapest not who has the highest quality.

Electrolytic caps are manufactured to various quality standards and ratings for operating temperature range and other electrical characteristics, including performance at higher frequencies and equivalent series resistance (ESR).

Cheaper commercial grade caps are typically spec'd to work at temperatures up to 85 deg. C. Industrial grades are spec'd to 105 deg. C.

In power filtering circuits, caps act as A.C. shunts to ground while blocking D.C. In an ideal capacitor, the effective series resistance is infinite at D.C. and eventually reaches 0 ohms at some frequency determined by its value and the impedence (resistance) of the power source.

In a less than ideal cap, any residual resistance is called "equivalent series resistance" (ESR), and any power lost by current passing through it is dissipated as heat, which in turn can cause component failure if it exceeds the design spec of the part.

Another cap characteristic is D.C. leakage, which means that a non-ideal cap exhibits some D.C. resistance value less than infinity, resulting in power loss and power dissipation.

Electrolytic caps are among the least ideal of capacitor technologies for ESR and leakage, and their ESR tends to degrade further at higher frequencies, which is why caps spec'd for switching power supplies and circuits that operate at very high frequencies, especially those with limited space and cooling, i.e. computers and digital signal processors such as video cards, digital entertainment media, etc. require better grades of caps.

If you want to replace the caps in your TV, start by knowing the values and voltage ratings of the caps. If the original caps aren't damaged (burnt, exploded, etc.) to the point where the manufacturer and model aren't readable, you can go to the part maker's site to get specs for the original component. That will give you a guide to the minimum specs you'll want for a replacement.

If the original caps spec'd by a manufacturer were marginal for voltage ratings, going to the next higher voltage rating will give the circuit an extra safety margin. In most cases, a slightly larger cap value won't hurt, either, as long as the specific circuit isn't a tuned design intended to be resonant at a given frequency, which is not the typical case for power filtering circuits.

The physical size of a capacitor is larger for both greater values and higher voltage ratings so there is always the matter of which available part will fit in the space of the part your replacing. OTOH, capacitor technology has improved significantly in recent years. Larger cap values with higher voltage ratings are getting smaller, and the newer solid electrolyte caps exhibit remarkably better specs.

Finally, I don't want to discourage those who are willing to try, but I don't recommend doing this, yourself, unless you're experienced enough at soldering to know what a good, clean solder joint looks like and even more experienced at removing old parts without damaging the circuit board and surrounding components... or unless you're willing to sacrafice your TV on the altar of self-education. You could damage more than you fix and trash an otherwise repairable TV.

Hope the info helps. Good luck. :)
 
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IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,967
140
106
I bought a 52" last Sunday at BestBuy with a free BluRay player included.. got it home and fired it up and was sooo suprised at how awful it looked. I juggled the settings all night, could not get the picture/color right... and motion blur was horrid. I returned it last night for a 50" Panasonic S1 plasma and couldn't have been more impressed. Almost as cool as the LCD and clearer by a thousand miles. Virtually ZERO motion blur, and the color was nearly spot on from the factory. I honestly can't see why magazines/people think that LCD even comes close to plasma, especially given the price per size difference.


had the same problem with a sony 46" 711EX LED edge lit. Terrible looking un even back lighting and color due to the limited color balance of LED's. My old CCFL 40" sony bravia looked better then the LED 711EX. So I returned the 711EX and bought the 42" Panasonic plasma. The plasma is a joy to watch with no LCD judder problems and infinitely better contrast ratio. Hell of a lot less expensive too.
 

Doug0915

Junior Member
Jan 24, 2011
8
0
0
Electrolytic caps are manufactured to various quality standards and ratings for operating temperature range and other electrical characteristics, including performance at higher frequencies and effective series resistance (ESR).

Cheaper commercial grade caps are typically spec'd to work at temperatures up to 85 deg. C. Industrial grades are spec'd to 105 deg. C.

In power filtering circuits, caps act as A.C. shunts to ground while blocking D.C. In an ideal capacitor, the effective series resistance is infinite at D.C. and eventually reaches 0 ohms at some frequency determined by its value and the impedence (resistance) of the power source.

In a less than ideal cap, any residual resistance is called "effective series resistance" (ESR), and any power lost by current passing through it is dissipated as heat, which in turn can cause component failure if it exceeds the design spec of the part.

Another cap characteristic is D.C. leakage, which means that a non-ideal cap exhits some D.C. resistance value less than infinity, resulting in power loss and power dissipation.

Electrolytic caps are among the least ideal of capacitor technologies for ESR and leakage, and their ESR tends to degrade further at higher frequencies, which is why caps spec'd for switching power supplies and circuits that operate at verh high frequencies, especially those with limited space and cooling, i.e. computers and digital signal processors such as video cards, digital entertainment media, etc. require better grades of caps.

If you want to replace the caps in your TV, start by knowing the values and voltage ratings of the caps. If the original caps aren't damaged (burnt, exploded, etc.) to the point where the manufacturer and model aren't readable, you can go to the part maker's site to get specs for the original component. That will give you a guide to the minimum specs you'll want for a replacement.

If the original caps spec'd by a manufacturer were marginal for voltage ratings, going to the next higher voltage rating will give the circuit an extra safety margin. In most cases, a slightly larger cap value won't hurt, either, as long as the specific circuit isn't a tuned design intended to be resonant at a given frequency, which is not the typical case for power filtering circuits.

The physical size of a capacitor is larger for both greater values and higher voltage ratings so there is always the matter of which available part will fit in the space of the part your replacing. OTOH, capacitor technology has improved significantly in recent years. Larger cap values with higher voltage ratings are getting smaller, and the newer solid electrolyte caps exhibit remarkably better specs.

Finally, I don't want to discourage those who are willing to try, but I don't recommend doing this, yourself, unless you're experienced enough at soldering to know what a good, clean solder joint looks like and even more experienced at removing old parts without damaging the circuit board and surrounding components... or unless you're willing to sacrafice your TV on the altar of self-education. You could damage more than you fix and trash an otherwise repairable TV.

Hope the info helps. Good luck. :)

Thanks for the information. That REALLY helps. My wife's Dad is a retired Electrical Engineer and Ham radio enthusiast. I could not get in touch with him today but I did get a txt he would help with the soldering once I got the right parts. I'm probably being too hasty in trying to pick up the stuff today at lunch while at work :)

Question is...can I survive a day or two without HDTV. I might MELT! Or go into withdrawal convulsions (NOT!). Besides, the TIVO will continue to record oblivious to display problems and with the upgraded 1TB drive I installed it should be fine even if I had no TV for a week :)

On a more serious note, it's amazing how the post you just made is NOWHERE to be found in other forums (similar descriptions that are consolidated in one post). Could be that I'm just semi-intelligent and ignorant (probably so) and nobody bothered to ask. Now I'm slightly less ignorant and still semi-intelligent...definitely a step forward.

thanks again! If I run into anything strange I'll be sure to post it here.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Thanks for the information. That REALLY helps.

YW. Glad I could help. :cool:

My wife's Dad is a retired Electrical Engineer and Ham radio enthusiast. I could not get in touch with him today but I did get a txt he would help with the soldering once I got the right parts. I'm probably being too hasty in trying to pick up the stuff today at lunch while at work :)

He may be able to help you choose which brands and model numbers will be best for reliability, etc. as well. Do your homework before you order parts, and know the all of the minimum specs for the caps you need, not just the capacitance and voltage ratings. The easiest places to find good selections for several candidates may be Digi-Key. They're not always the cheapest, but they have a large selection of almost every kind of component in consumer, commercial and industrial grades.

On a more serious note, it's amazing how the post you just made is NOWHERE to be found in other forums (similar descriptions that are consolidated in one post).

That's because I'm an electronic design engineer, and I wrote it all off the top of my head in response to your post. I'm also a senior mod/admin on these forums which doesn't leave me a lot of time for posting on any other forums. :p

Could be that I'm just semi-intelligent and ignorant (probably so) and nobody bothered to ask. Now I'm slightly less ignorant and still semi-intelligent...definitely a step forward.

You're not that short on intelligence, either. Nobody knows it all. Half of appearing smart to others is not being afraid to acknowledge what you don't know and how and where to look for answers. :thumbsup:

equivalent series resistance (ESR).
;)

Thanks. I stand corrected, and I edited my previous post. As I said, I was writing off the top of my head, and I didn't catch that before posting. :oops:
 
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Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Thanks for the information. That REALLY helps. My wife's Dad is a retired Electrical Engineer and Ham radio enthusiast. I could not get in touch with him today but I did get a txt he would help with the soldering once I got the right parts. I'm probably being too hasty in trying to pick up the stuff today at lunch while at work :)


Good idea getting him to help with the soldering. Capacitors are fairly large but the components around them can be as small as 1mm. All it takes is a slip of the tip of the soldering iron to have a part come off the board , stick to the tip and burn up. Then you will have to hunt down the service manual or schematic to find out what part you just destroyed :(

Sadly this problem is happening to more and more brands. I have a 32" hitachi which I need to get around replacing the caps in.
 

Doug0915

Junior Member
Jan 24, 2011
8
0
0
YW. Glad I could help. :cool:



He may be able to help you choose which brands and model numbers will be best for reliability, etc. as well. Do your homework before you order parts, and know the all of the minimum specs for the caps you need, not just the capacitance and voltage ratings. The easiest places to find good selections for several candidates may be Digi-Key. They're not always the cheapest, but they have a large selection of almost every kind of component in consumer, commercial and industrial grades.



That's because I'm an electronic design engineer, and I wrote it all off the top of my head in response to your post. I'm also a senior mod/admin on these forums which doesn't leave me a lot of time for posting on any other forums. :p



You're not that short on intelligence, either. Nobody knows it all. Half of appearing smart to others is not being afraid to acknowledge what you don't know and how and where to look for answers. :thumbsup:



Thanks. I stand corrected, and I edited my previous post. As I said, I was writing off the top of my head, and I didn't catch that before posting. :oops:

Well...Here is the damage (below). I've scoured the web, no service manual seems to exist for my TV that I can access. I suppose I could just replace the two bad caps with the same thing. What do you think? (or what woud you do)? Would you go with a higher cap?

thanks!

IMG_1387.JPG


IMG_1385.JPG
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,967
140
106
under rated cap's. they should recall all sets with such shoddy engineering.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Well...Here is the damage (below). I've scoured the web, no service manual seems to exist for my TV that I can access. I suppose I could just replace the two bad caps with the same thing. What do you think? (or what woud you do)? Would you go with a higher cap?

thanks!

IMG_1387.JPG


IMG_1385.JPG

If you're talking about the two blue parts, the apparent ribbing around the bodies makes me think they could be inductors (coils), not capacitors. If either of them shorted, that could cause even good, properly rated caps in the same circuit to fail. OTOH, if the caps in the same circuit went bad, that could cause substantial heating that could deform them and melt the blue insulation around them.

If you're talking about the 1000 uF/25 volt cap and the one next to it, the tops are already domed, and the 1000 uF/25 volt cap shows the beginning of leakage. The other domed cap (also bad) clearly shows the 105 deg. C temperature rating.

Can you read the manufacturer's name or the model number on any of them? It has been my personal experience, even the best, most highly respected component manufacturer can have a bad runs of parts that pass final tests but then have large early failure rates in the field. I'm referring to the maker of the caps, not Samsung.

The questions want answered are:

1. What brands and values of parts has Samsung or others who have successfully repaird these sets used as replacement parts?

2. If the problem is with a particular batch of caps, has the manufacturer addressed the problems?

3. Are other brands available with the same specs and physical dimensions?

If all seven of the brown caps in the pic are from the same manufacturere, once you find good replacements, I'd replace all of them. If those two blew, the others may be from the same manufacturing lot. If so, it's likely the other rest of them aren't far behind.

I'd also be looking at identifying and replacing the blue components.

under rated cap's. they should recall all sets with such shoddy engineering.

Per my reply, above, I don't know if the problem was under-spec'd parts or bad parts from a previously qualified supplier. Considering the number of complaints about capacitor problems with their TV sets, I agree that Samsung should recall at least the lots known to have caps with high failure rates.

And, as noted, the could be in what looks like inductors, which could be the initial cause of all the component failures.
 
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CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
If you're talking about the two blue parts, the apparent ribbing around the bodies makes me think they could be inductors (coils), not capacitors. If either of them shorted, that could cause even good, properly rated caps in the same circuit to fail...
Definitely inductors. Fairly substantial, from the look of the wire and the ferrite core. I seriously doubt these have shorted, as in my experience the primary failure mode for chokes of this size is for the lacquer on the windings to melt as the result of very high current due to the catastrophic failure of another component down circuit.

My guess would be caps operated too close to their maximum rating or "puffy cap syndrome" caused by the Chinese pirated electrolyte formula.
My advice would be premium Japanese capacitors of the next higher voltage rating, low-ESR high-temperature preferred.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Replace them all. No reason not to. That is a single sided board so replacing those caps is an easy job. The caps are right next to heatsinks and between two inductors so they failed first, the others will follow given enough time.

I use newark instead of digikey because digikey still holds on to that stupid $25 minimum order policy. Newark and Mouser let you order any amount.


Luckily even good capacitors are cheap, about 70 cents for the 1000uf ones below that are better than what they used, low esr, higher voltage, and high temp.
http://www.newark.com/rubycon/35zl1000m12-5x25/capacitor-alum-elect-1000uf-35v/dp/38M4497

Can't read the values on the others but I'm guessing they are probably 220uf, if so , those are 20 cents each.
http://www.newark.com/rubycon/35zlh220m8x11-5/capacitor-alum-elect-220uf-35v/dp/38M4487
 
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Doug0915

Junior Member
Jan 24, 2011
8
0
0
Thanks to everybody who has been helping me out! :)

Given that the repair man last year replaced some caps, and I don't know how many or of which type (he came while I was at work with the wife at home) it seems logical to replace them all.

I should though be able to tell which ones by looking at the underside of the board right? Given that all look to be the same color and manufacturer I'm assuming the tech last year replaced them with the exact same brand and type.
 

Doug0915

Junior Member
Jan 24, 2011
8
0
0
Definitely inductors. Fairly substantial, from the look of the wire and the ferrite core. I seriously doubt these have shorted, as in my experience the primary failure mode for chokes of this size is for the lacquer on the windings to melt as the result of very high current due to the catastrophic failure of another component down circuit.

My guess would be caps operated too close to their maximum rating or "puffy cap syndrome" caused by the Chinese pirated electrolyte formula.
My advice would be premium Japanese capacitors of the next higher voltage rating, low-ESR high-temperature preferred.

Interesting. I'm assuming the white stuff in-between the blown capacitor that is leaking and the inductor is some sort of insulation against heat damaging? Why is that only in-between the two on one side but not the other?