Samsung accuses Apple of copying Sony

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Selenium_Glow

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Jan 25, 2012
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Anyone here knows which was the first touch screen phone by Sony?

And I have to hand it to Sony for making touch screen phones with newer designs and colors... something both Apple and Samsung aren't trying to do... or at least it doesn't seem to be that way.
 
Oyeve

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,062
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I wonder if gene Roddenberry was still alive if he would Sue any of these companies.
 
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makken

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2004
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Mopetar said:
Then why even bother posting something like that? It doesn't add anything at all to the thread and only serves to detract from any meaningful discussion about the topic. I could understand if you were just posting a rumor from another source, but if it's just something that you've made up or otherwise know to be completely baseless, there's really no point to it.
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Well it looks like the evidence has been rejected so this whole discussion is moot.

It seems Samsung's defense is now based on the fact that they had touchphone designs that are iphone like before the introduction of the iphone:

s-comp.PNG


Does this even matter though? Even if they were working on that design prior to the patent/iphone release, if they didn't reveal it to the public, wouldn't it not be considered prior art?
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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makken said:
Does this even matter though? Even if they were working on that design prior to the patent/iphone release, if they didn't reveal it to the public, wouldn't it not be considered prior art?
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Unless they actually released it in some form or applied for a design patent of their own, I don't believe it would count as prior art. However, given that it's a jury trial, it might help persuade jurors that they had similar ideas in mind or that they arrived at their design independent of Apple.

Edit: Apparently that evidence was excluded from the trial (Although I'm not sure why as it seems relevant to me. I'll have to see if there's anything that's been released that can explain why the judge decided to exclude it.) so apparently it won't be shown to jurors.
 
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makken

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2004
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Mopetar said:
Unless they actually released it in some form or applied for a design patent of their own, I don't believe it would count as prior art. However, given that it's a jury trial, it might help persuade jurors that they had similar ideas in mind or that they arrived at their design independent of Apple.

Edit: Apparently that evidence was excluded from the trial (Although I'm not sure why as it seems relevant to me. I'll have to see if there's anything that's been released that can explain why the judge decided to exclude it.) so apparently it won't be shown to jurors.
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Huh? That was excluded as well? I thought it was just the sony design.
That sucks for samsung I guess. Theverge article mentioned that samsung lawyers were setting up for an appeal. Probably a good idea if they can't get this evidence included.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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makken said:
Huh? That was excluded as well? I thought it was just the sony design.
That sucks for samsung I guess. Theverge article mentioned that samsung lawyers were setting up for an appeal. Probably a good idea if they can't get this evidence included.
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From what I've read, the design that Samsung wanted to show was ruled inadmissible, although I still haven't been able to find any additional details, so I'm still not sure why the judge ruled that way. Unless there's something else in play, I can't see any reason why it was deemed inadmissible.

Also, the whole Sony thing may not have been that useful to Samsung as Apple already had designs/prototypes predating that news article that Samsung claims inspired the iPhone design. Another weird twist is that the Sony design that Samsung is accusing Apple of using may have been based on the iPod.

I'm sure more information will come out in the next few days.
 
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makken

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2004
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From what I've gathered (IANAL), it was submitted too late to be included.
Not being able to get this in, AND pissing off the judge... it's not looking too good for samsung.
 
T

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
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My understanding also is that it isn't just about the exterior appearance of the device, but how the user interacted with the device, and the UI tricks and what not. I had a Pocket PC from 2004 that was all screen, but you didn't interact with it the same way as the iPhone. The iPhone introduced to cellphones things like inertial scrolling, the little rubberbanding effect, pinch zoom, double-tap to zoom, and any number of other features.

If Samsung can prove that any of their prototypes had those features BEFORE they were intro'd on stage in Jan 07, then they have something going for them. Otherwise...
 
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Puddle Jumper

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
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ChAoTiCpInOy said:
What's wrong with this judge?
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She didn't allow these documents even though they are relevant to the case yet she tried to stop Samsung from releasing them to the public. She also seems to favor Apple far more than any of the other Judges who have been on these cases.
 
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ChAoTiCpInOy

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
6,442
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Puddle Jumper said:
She didn't allow these documents even though they are relevant to the case yet she tried to stop Samsung from releasing them to the public. She also seems to favor Apple far more than any of the other Judges who have been on these cases.
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Pretty sure she's been harsh on apple as well. I don't think either of these companies are on good terms with the judg especially because they couldn't work it out in mediation.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,470
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Oyeve said:
shes obviously biased. Why else would he keep throwing out evidence?
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Puddle Jumper said:
She didn't allow these documents even though they are relevant to the case yet she tried to stop Samsung from releasing them to the public.
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There was an article on Slashdot covering this story and one of the posters pointed out that it was excluded because Samsung did not submit it on time during the discovery period. That makes it inadmissible in the trial. I don't know why, but apparently their lawyers screwed up majorly, regardless of whether or not the evidence was some kind of smoking gun.

So, no, there isn't some kind of bias, or other conspiracy against Samsung. Their own legal team didn't submit this as evidence during the discovery period. If the judge is mad it's probably because people like you jumped to the conclusion that she's biased and are going to call her into question unfairly without examining all of the facts.
 
D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
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Mopetar said:
There was an article on Slashdot covering this story and one of the posters pointed out that it was excluded because Samsung did not submit it on time during the discovery period. That makes it inadmissible in the trial. I don't know why, but apparently their lawyers screwed up majorly, regardless of whether or not the evidence was some kind of smoking gun.

So, no, there isn't some kind of bias, or other conspiracy against Samsung. Their own legal team didn't submit this as evidence during the discovery period. If the judge is mad it's probably because people like you jumped to the conclusion that she's biased and are going to call her into question unfairly without examining all of the facts.
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Samsung's lawyers have made countless mistakes on behalf of their client. They should get a new legal team.
 
Oyeve

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,062
881
126
Mopetar said:
There was an article on Slashdot covering this story and one of the posters pointed out that it was excluded because Samsung did not submit it on time during the discovery period. That makes it inadmissible in the trial. I don't know why, but apparently their lawyers screwed up majorly, regardless of whether or not the evidence was some kind of smoking gun.

So, no, there isn't some kind of bias, or other conspiracy against Samsung. Their own legal team didn't submit this as evidence during the discovery period. If the judge is mad it's probably because people like you jumped to the conclusion that she's biased and are going to call her into question unfairly without examining all of the facts.
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Then why is she bitching about the inadmissable evidence being made public? If she wont allow it then it is not part of the trial and samsung can do what they want with it.

I am also wondering if her being korean makes her anti-samsung as her peers and the public may think she would be playing favoritism.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Oyeve said:
Then why is she bitching about the inadmissable evidence being made public? If she wont allow it then it is not part of the trial and samsung can do what they want with it.
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Two possible reasons. The first is that someone on the jury will either see or hear about it even though they shouldn't be reading the news, etc. and that it will impact their decision making and influence their verdict.

The second is any spin on Samsung's part to suggest that she's biased or otherwise insinuate that they're not getting a fair trial when it's their own damned fault for not following procedure.

Here's part of the statement that they made with the released information: "The excluded evidence would have established beyond doubt that Samsung did not copy the iPhone design. Fundamental fairness requires that the jury decide the case based on all the evidence."

They're trying to make it seem like the evidence was excluded for some nefarious reason out of their control, which it wasn't. You'd probably be pissed off too if someone screwed up and then tried to make it seem like it was your fault.
 
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MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
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So Apple is lying about their documents predating Sony prototype and the judge is biased. Wow. lol

The judge is following the legal system, get over it.
 
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