Samsung 710T

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I seriously find it hard to believe that 99.9% of computer users would not notice a difference (if you mean non-gamers, then sure). To say there is no difference between 25ms and 16ms in gaming is fvcking dumb. Maybe you don't notice a difference, but I am pretty sure every reviewer and most other gamers notice a difference.

Where did I say there is no difference between 25ms and 16ms in gaming? If you consider ghosting in a FPS Meter ghosting than I'll agree with you, but generally I am not. We don't care about minor ghosting of a FPS Meter, we care about our games and movies ghosting, which on my 1530v they do not. Give me 50MBs of webspace and I'll prove that you will not notice any difference in my 1530v and my 1765v.

Does having a folding stand make the least bit of difference? NO.

Yes it does, it might be a minor change but it is a change and does make a difference. You to be able to transport it as easily as possible, do you want a nice 12" plastic base stick out while you're walking to your spot at the lan? No you don't. You want something that you can transport as small and thin and less bulky as possible. Thanks for swearing at me, you're a really nice person. Maybe you should try making some actual valid points and proving me wrong that a LCD with a foldable base doesn't make a difference in transportabilty compared to one without.

I am sorry, let me rephrase that. "To say that 99.9% of computer users would not notice a difference between 25ms and 16ms is fvcking dumb". However, if all those computer users did was surf the web, email, and write documents, I would agree with you. And what do you mean ghosting in an fps meter? WTF? And who is "we"? Are you speaking for every computer user now?

I am sure you care about your games and movies ghosting, and I am telling you that maybe you don't notice a difference, but from pretty much every other person I have spoken to or read their opinion of, they noticed a difference.

I dont know where the base actually sticks out 12"s, but whatever. If you put the monitor allthe way down, the base might stick out a few inches at the bottom, and maybe 5 inches behind the monitor. Can I still carry the LCD in one arm? Yes. Would it hit anything more than the 172x would? No.

My point is that for most lan gamers who have dealt with CRTs (like myself) ANY LCD is gonna be MUCH easier to carry around. Going from CRT to LCD is a big enough difference to the point where the base on difference LCDs means JACK SH!T.

Ok..Ill say it makes a difference to people who have only dealt with LCDs, but for the most part, the difference it makes isn't worth choosing it over another LCD. And sorry I swear, I just get really frustrated.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I seriously find it hard to believe that 99.9% of computer users would not notice a difference (if you mean non-gamers, then sure). To say there is no difference between 25ms and 16ms in gaming is fvcking dumb. Maybe you don't notice a difference, but I am pretty sure every reviewer and most other gamers notice a difference.

Where did I say there is no difference between 25ms and 16ms in gaming? If you consider ghosting in a FPS Meter ghosting than I'll agree with you, but generally I am not. We don't care about minor ghosting of a FPS Meter, we care about our games and movies ghosting, which on my 1530v they do not. Give me 50MBs of webspace and I'll prove that you will not notice any difference in my 1530v and my 1765v.

Does having a folding stand make the least bit of difference? NO.

Yes it does, it might be a minor change but it is a change and does make a difference. You to be able to transport it as easily as possible, do you want a nice 12" plastic base stick out while you're walking to your spot at the lan? No you don't. You want something that you can transport as small and thin and less bulky as possible. Thanks for swearing at me, you're a really nice person. Maybe you should try making some actual valid points and proving me wrong that a LCD with a foldable base doesn't make a difference in transportabilty compared to one without.

I am sorry, let me rephrase that. "To say that 99.9% of computer users would not notice a difference between 25ms and 16ms is fvcking dumb". However, if all those computer users did was surf the web, email, and write documents, I would agree with you. And what do you mean ghosting in an fps meter? WTF? And who is "we"? Are you speaking for every computer user now?

I am sure you care about your games and movies ghosting, and I am telling you that maybe you don't notice a difference, but from pretty much every other person I have spoken to or read their opinion of, they noticed a difference.

I dont know where the base actually sticks out 12"s, but whatever. If you put the monitor allthe way down, the base might stick out a few inches at the bottom, and maybe 5 inches behind the monitor. Can I still carry the LCD in one arm? Yes. Would it hit anything more than the 172x would? No.

My point is that for most lan gamers who have dealt with CRTs (like myself) ANY LCD is gonna be MUCH easier to carry around. Going from CRT to LCD is a big enough difference to the point where the base on difference LCDs means JACK SH!T.

Ok..Ill say it makes a difference to people who have only dealt with LCDs, but for the most part, the difference it makes isn't worth choosing it over another LCD. And sorry I swear, I just get really frustrated.

I would really perfer if you swore, it makes your points so much more valid . When someone breaks their Dell 2001FP with the extend arm, and its stuck they won't be happy. We aren't talking about CRTs in this thread. Yes I know its better, but the simple fact you'd rather have one that is foldable. Thats all I am saying.


Okay, I'll rephrase the ghosting part for if you can't understand it.

This is what I have for monitors

Several Gateway monitors and some acer ones.... 17"s Normally I'd list the spec but they are pretty damned old and I am never going back to a LCD.

I have also have a Nec 1530v Manual specs are on page 13, couldn't find the response time... and a Nec 1765v Specs...

Unless you have some x-ray googles or Riddicks eyes you won't see any (barley) ghosting on my Nec 1530v or my 1765. I honestly can't prove that the 1530v is a 25ms panel, but people online tell me thats what it is. When I am talking about my FPS (Frames per Second) Meter, its a console enabled opition in Half-Life; using Netstat shows network stats as well as your FPS. It goes in the corner of your screen. I am running a Asus 9600XT. This paired with Half-Life 2 is going to give you some excellent FPS and more than likely at a near constant 100. Anyway, it flickers from 99.8 to 100 very fast, almost like it would give you a sezsuire. That is the only thing I can get to ghost on my 1765 or my 1530v, its just less on the 1765 is this meter. You will NOT see any ghosting difference between my Nec 1765 and my Nec 1530v excluding the FPS meter. We, and when I say we I mean above average computer users don't care about minor ghosting of our FPS meter in Half-Life. We care if our games or movies ghost. I will prove this to you, just give me some webspace and I'll show you my UT2k4 skills on both monitors.

BTW, does anyone know why LCD mintors are 5:4 and not 4:3 (They are 4:3 right?) like CRTs?

 

[Excelsior]

Again, anyone who somehow manages to bust their 2001FP shouldnt be using it in the first place. I realize we are not talking about CRTS here, but I guess comparisons are beyond you . You may would rather one that is foldable, and I will say again; I don't give a sh!t if it is foldable or not. I don't care much about what the stand looks like as long as it does its job/is functional. Mine is, so I am happy. That is all I am saying.

I couldn't understand what you were talking about because I have never heard of someone using the FPS meter in HL to determine ghosting.

Of course above average computer users/gamers care if movies/games ghost, and I am telling you that most should/would notice a difference between a 25ms and a 16ms screen. Just because you don't, doesn't mean others won't. Understand?

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Qwitcherbitchen you two, I want to know what the deal is with the 710T and it's color reproduction. You both have had ample time to make your points, so let it rest, please (punk kids, I tell ya what, grumble..mumble...mutter) Or if you want to argue more, that's fine too, I guess. Who am I to tell anyone to quiet down....

Does anyone know yet what the REAL color reproduction capability of the 710T is? So far we have 16.2M colors from Samsung World website and 16.7M from Samsung USA. From all the reviews I've read, it sounds like there is a noticeable difference when watching movies, so if the 710T actually displays 16.7M then it has a significant admantage over the 172X IMO. Of course, at this point I'm betting that the USA website is wrong and real reproduction capability is 16.2M. Anyone have additional data?

-D'oh!

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Again, anyone who somehow manages to bust their 2001FP shouldnt be using it in the first place. I realize we are not talking about CRTS here, but I guess comparisons are beyond you . You may would rather one that is foldable, and I will say again; I don't give a sh!t if it is foldable or not. I don't care much about what the stand looks like as long as it does its job/is functional. Mine is, so I am happy. That is all I am saying.

I couldn't understand what you were talking about because I have never heard of someone using the FPS meter in HL to determine ghosting.

Of course above average computer users/gamers care if movies/games ghost, and I am telling you that most should/would notice a difference between a 25ms and a 16ms screen. Just because you don't, doesn't mean others won't. Understand?

I was checking my FPS in half-life, and thats the only thing that I can get to ghost on either monitor.

What the hell? Most people should notice a difference? Huh? I don't wear glasses and I have 20/20. Just because someone's eyes are better than someone elses doesn't not mean they'll see ghosting. Ghosting has everything to do with the response time of the pixels and whats being displayed, it has nothing to do with you're eyesight. Unless you're on some kind of drug thats giving you insane motion blur.

 

[Sarge1]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Sarge1
Dell has the 710T for $473, then 10% off that, or $425.70. Offer ends today.

710T at Dell

I thought the 10% was already factored in?

Upon further review....I think you are correct.

 

[s2kpacifist]

Originally posted by: AnnoyedGrunt
Does anyone know yet what the REAL color reproduction capability of the 710T is? So far we have 16.2M colors from Samsung World website and 16.7M from Samsung USA. From all the reviews I've read, it sounds like there is a noticeable difference when watching movies, so if the 710T actually displays 16.7M then it has a significant admantage over the 172X IMO. Of course, at this point I'm betting that the USA website is wrong and real reproduction capability is 16.2M. Anyone have additional data?

I second that.
And can't the 172X only display 200,000 something colors at once since it is, after all, 6-bit? It's kinda weird how Anandtech's review of the 172X said that the colors were washed out...yet other reviewers said they were "vibrant" or the best they've seen in a while. And I'm pretty sure the 710T is 8-bit...right? I'm still a bit confused.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Sarge1

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Sarge1
Dell has the 710T for $473, then 10% off that, or $425.70. Offer ends today.

710T at Dell

I thought the 10% was already factored in?

Upon further review....I think you are correct.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Again, anyone who somehow manages to bust their 2001FP shouldnt be using it in the first place. I realize we are not talking about CRTS here, but I guess comparisons are beyond you . You may would rather one that is foldable, and I will say again; I don't give a sh!t if it is foldable or not. I don't care much about what the stand looks like as long as it does its job/is functional. Mine is, so I am happy. That is all I am saying.

I couldn't understand what you were talking about because I have never heard of someone using the FPS meter in HL to determine ghosting.

Of course above average computer users/gamers care if movies/games ghost, and I am telling you that most should/would notice a difference between a 25ms and a 16ms screen. Just because you don't, doesn't mean others won't. Understand?

I was checking my FPS in half-life, and thats the only thing that I can get to ghost on either monitor.

What the hell? Most people should notice a difference? Huh? I don't wear glasses and I have 20/20. Just because someone's eyes are better than someone elses doesn't not mean they'll see ghosting. Ghosting has everything to do with the response time of the pixels and whats being displayed, it has nothing to do with you're eyesight. Unless you're on some kind of drug thats giving you insane motion blur.

That isn't a very good test, I don't think, but whatever.

You obviously completely missed what I was saying. I never meant to make you think I was talking about eyesight, I didnt think I said eyesight anyway. I was referring to how it is all subjective.

 

[s2kpacifist]

Looked around a bit more, found out that yes, the 710T does in fact produce 24 bit color unlike the 172X. Hardforums has quite a lot of feedback on the 172Xs and 710Ts (Nice posts in both forums, Excelsior). For me, I'm dropping my money for the 710T. Yay, my first new LCD monitor in 7 1/2 years

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: s2kpacifist

Originally posted by: AnnoyedGrunt
Does anyone know yet what the REAL color reproduction capability of the 710T is? So far we have 16.2M colors from Samsung World website and 16.7M from Samsung USA. From all the reviews I've read, it sounds like there is a noticeable difference when watching movies, so if the 710T actually displays 16.7M then it has a significant admantage over the 172X IMO. Of course, at this point I'm betting that the USA website is wrong and real reproduction capability is 16.2M. Anyone have additional data?

I second that.
And can't the 172X only display 200,000 something colors at once since it is, after all, 6-bit? It's kinda weird how Anandtech's review of the 172X said that the colors were washed out...yet other reviewers said they were "vibrant" or the best they've seen in a while. And I'm pretty sure the 710T is 8-bit...right? I'm still a bit confused.

I saw a 172X just the other day, and in my opinion the color was not as rich as that on my 172T. Kind of a bluish tint in the Windows scene I saw.

Zephyr

 

[naddicott]

I went for the 710T at Dell today, the last day of the deal's availability. Hopefully it should outperform my current generic brand 1996 CRT monitor that didn't support resolutions above 1024x768.

 

[CRXican]

Originally posted by: naddicott
I went for the 710T at Dell today, the last day of the deal's availability. Hopefully it should outperform my current generic brand 1996 CRT monitor that didn't support resolutions above 1024x768.

I might have to jump on this when I get home from work, I have my credit card hiding from me to avoid spending like this. You got the $427... deal right? No coupons?

 

[MadScientist]

The 710N, analog only, is $427.46, the 710T, analog and DVI, is $462.56 at Dell, free shipping. And if you hurry there is a $30. off $400. purchase coupon posted today at Techbargains for the first 1500 users. That brings the 710N down to $397.46 shipped.

Techbargains

 

[CRXican]

Originally posted by: MadScientist
The 710N, analog only, is $427.46, the 710T, analog and DVI, is $462.56 at Dell, free shipping. And if you hurry there is a $30. off $400. purchase coupon posted today at Techbargains for the first 1500 users. That brings the 710N down to $397.46 shipped.

Techbargains

I guess that coupon is already gone.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: s2kpacifist
Looked around a bit more, found out that yes, the 710T does in fact produce 24 bit color unlike the 172X. Hardforums has quite a lot of feedback on the 172Xs and 710Ts (Nice posts in both forums, Excelsior). For me, I'm dropping my money for the 710T. Yay, my first new LCD monitor in 7 1/2 years

Thanks . You should enjoy it. I went from a Viewsonic A90 CRT, and I am very happy with it. :thumbsup:

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: s2kpacifist
Looked around a bit more, found out that yes, the 710T does in fact produce 24 bit color unlike the 172X. Hardforums has quite a lot of feedback on the 172Xs and 710Ts (Nice posts in both forums, Excelsior). For me, I'm dropping my money for the 710T. Yay, my first new LCD monitor in 7 1/2 years

I believe I mentioned this alredy on the previous page .

 

[hsgp7]

Can you tell me how low the bottom of the visible part of the screen can go on the 710T? I am looking for a 17" LCD that can adjust so that the bottom is 4" or even lower from the desktop, in addition to having good color and a fast speed.

 

[s2kpacifist]

Thanks for the feedback Zephyr106.

And jiffylube, I was confused because on several sites the colors listed were different, as well as the panel type. Also, I was skeptical that a 24-bit color screen with low response time could actually be cheaper than the 172X.

That and I have a very short attention span. :roll:

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: s2kpacifist
Thanks for the feedback Zephyr106.

And jiffylube, I was confused because on several sites the colors listed were different, as well as the panel type. Also, I was skeptical that a 24-bit color screen with low response time could actually be cheaper than the 172X.

That and I have a very short attention span. :roll:

Heh. Well, the 710T is newer - it's just coming out now and the 172X came out, what, 10 months ago or so?

I don't like how they had to sacrifice the number of displayable colours on those low response time LCD's either. Heck, I don't even like to game too much on my LCD anyway - a high quality CRT looks better to me. LCD's kill CRT's in terms of sharpness and clarity, though.

 

[Boztech]

I just got my 710t in today, haven't had much time to really adjust it and test it out yet but I'm getting to that as we speak. BTW, I got the monitor for $490 shipped in 3 days flat from pagecomputers.com.

As far as how low the bottom of the panel goes, I have mine as low as it will go and according to my tape measure it sits exactly 3 3/4 inches from my desktop.

I can tell you first impression this monitor is VERY BRIGHT, colors look very vivid, and I like the design. Very minimalistic even with the built-in power, very nice cable management in the stand on the back.

I'm off to try out some 1280 Far Cry on it, if anyone has any specific request, even digital pics, I'll try to fullfil them.

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

How about posting a digital pic of the manual where it states the color capability. Hopefully that would put that question to rest once and for all.

Thanks,
D'oh!

 

[PowderBB3D]

Just let us know how the ghosting issues are and I'll be happy.

- P

 

[KableGuy]

Hey Zombie there is one other difference that I don't think anyone has mentioned (I just ordered this monitor today) and that is that the 710T does NOT have the DVI cable included and the 172X does.

 

[naddicott]

Originally posted by: KableGuy
Hey Zombie there is one other difference that I don't think anyone has mentioned (I just ordered this monitor today) and that is that the 710T does NOT have the DVI cable included and the 172X does.

My 710T (ordered from Dell) did come with both cables. It is now operating quite well with the DVI connection, although I feel compelled to tweak the color settings / brightness a bit. "Auto Adjust" does not appear to work with DVI.

Haven't gotten around to running a game at a non-native resolution yet. I hope it's not too much of a noticable image quality hit.