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Samsung 172T 17" LCD Reviewed + The Future of Samsung

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Originally posted by: DynaOne
A review is already out - see the headline article at pcworld.com.

The Hitachi and Viewsonic 16ms response result in some tradeoffs that may not be worth it

"Another caveat: These first fast LCDs use relatively simple twisted nematic (TN) pixel technology, which does not match the color quality and viewing angles of in-plane switching (IPS) and multidomain vertical alignment. So if speed isn't a concern, you might want to spend your display dollars on a slower but better quality LCD."
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Yeah, I notice slight blurring when scrolling text on a dark background quickly on my 172T. I don't notice it with white backgrounds or in movies. As for gaming I haven't done very much. It was OK.

I would not give up image quality for response time though. 25 ms seems good enough for me. A true 16 ms would be better, but only if the quality was as good, and it sounds like it isn't.
 
Originally posted by: DynaOne
The PC World article was enough to turn me off the CML174 - unless A'tech says differently. I'm not willing to trade 16ms response time (which doesn't completely eliminate ghosting) for static image quality.
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So which LCD is best for gamers right now?

 
Originally posted by: CallTheFBI
Originally posted by: DynaOne
The Hitachi could indeed be the best for gamers - but for me gaming not a first priority.
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Is the loss of color quality really noticeable for the Hitachi?
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Can't comment on the Hitachi, as I've never seen it, but quite honestly, the Samsung 172T is the best I have ever seen in a 17" LCD. Completely blows away the Apple 17" display, which is known as being a pretty good one.
 
I'd like to hear if anyone has seen a 191T and a 172T side by side to compare ghosting.

If its significantly better then the 191T, I might just tell my friend to cancel his Dell order... it is a good few weeks from arriving according to them anyway.

Reading the LCD thread at Ars is leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth about the 191T, since about half the time on the monitor will be spend gaming, most of it is FPS but nevertheless..
 
So far it doesn't seem like too many people actually own the Hitachi, and nobody has both the Hitachi and the Samsung, so it's hard to get a good grasp on the comparative levels of ghosting on these two LCDs.
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Boo 😉 I do! I will try to have the review posted Monday, although it may be latter on in the week if Anand or Matthew have something going up instead. I think a lot of people will be interested in some of the things I have to say about the CML174.

I'd like to hear if anyone has seen a 191T and a 172T side by side to compare ghosting.
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There seem to be several definitions of "ghosting" floating around the forums. Please refer to the thread in the Articles Forum where I addressed some of these defintions. Samsung made me send the 191T back (I reviewed that back in July), but the ghosting due to analog connections where fairly severe. If you are referring to the blur due to high response time, I recall that it was not even noticable except for VERY high paced gaming. Im still looking for a quanitive test to use in a benchmark - but I have not had any ideas yet. The largest problems I had with the 191T where color issues actually, although I had trouble confirming it with our rudimentry benchmark at the time.

Anyways, Hope that helps

Kristopher
 
I was indeed referring to the blurring on the screen that happens when there is fast motion.

This thread has pretty much come to the conclusion that the 191T is not acceptable when it comes to ghosting. Then again I have read the opinions of other people who say they have no problem with it. I am actually fairly picky when it comes to these things, but I also did find myself accustomed to the ghosting on a friend's LCD fairly quickly. I had completely forgotten about it after a bit of gaming.

If I can be sure that the 172T is better then the 191T when it comes to ghosting, I will have the 191T order canceled. I just figured they are both made by Samsung, are listed at 25ms response time, and have many of the same specs so how different could they be... except the 191T is 2 inches bigger and can be bought for less then $100 more then the 172T (if you get in on a good deal at Dell). I guess this assumption could be really wrong though. The AAT article didn't really go into detail of a comparison of the ghosting between the two monitors. I think thats what I really need is someone who has both and can directly compare them. I know different people have different opinions on ghosting but even if they say I can barely notice it on either monitor but the 172T is a little bit less noticeable... that could be night and day for me, then again I might not be able to notice it either. Nevertheless it would leave me with a better idea then I currently have.
 
There seem to be several definitions of "ghosting" floating around the forums. Please refer to the thread in the Articles Forum where I addressed some of these defintions. Samsung made me send the 191T back (I reviewed that back in July), but the ghosting due to analog connections where fairly severe. If you are referring to the blur due to high response time, I recall that it was not even noticable except for VERY high paced gaming. Im still looking for a quanitive test to use in a benchmark - but I have not had any ideas yet. The largest problems I had with the 191T where color issues actually, although I had trouble confirming it with our rudimentry benchmark at the time.
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I was referring to blurring with movement.

For me this is most obvious with certain colours on a black background, such as at the AVS Forums. With movies, I didn't really notice it, nor did I in VERY light gaming. (I don't game much.)

For black text on a white background, like for most of the internet, I never notice any problems.

As for halos, I do notice that ever so slightly even with my Radeon LE card, which has excellent 2D (and better than VGA from a Sapphire 9000 Pro, and a dual-DVI Asus Geforce4 MX 440). With DVI (Sapphire, Asus, PowerBook Titanium) it's perfect of course.
 
Thanks Eug, your experiences helped some.

I'd still really like to hear from someone who has used a 191T and a 172T and can fill me in.

Btw, where did you order your 172T from? Most places seem to be OOS.
 
Hi Guys

I have just moved to a 17" Hitachi LCD CML 174SXWB following several favorable reviews of it on respected sites like Toms Hardware and gamepc.

The jump that Hitachi have made is in it's refresh rate which is 3/4 times faster than what has been available until now. Also in the UK there has recently been a price drop of c.£200 down to £371 (inc vat) and the final clincher for me was that my wonderful wife said that she would buy it for my Birthday pressie (in May) but I charmed her into an advance;-)

Go here http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=17inchlcds&page=1 to read a review which is very accurate based on my aquaintance with this monitor of only 5 days but it really is like another world with almost photographic quality in MS flightsim and clarity undreamed of for all normal use. Incidently my GF Ti 4200 128Mb doesn't have DVI output but It seems to make no difference and in vga mode all the menu items are available for adjustment.

I cannot compete with you guys on the technical arguments but subjectively it is brilliant and I can't believe that the 2 reviewers displayed bias so I trusted them😀

Best regards

Frank
 
Originally posted by: Boyho1
Hi Guys

I have just moved to a 17" Hitachi LCD CML 174SXWB following several favorable reviews of it on respected sites like Toms Hardware and gamepc.

The jump that Hitachi have made is in it's refresh rate which is 3/4 times faster than what has been available until now. Also in the UK there has recently been a price drop of c.£200 down to £371 (inc vat) and the final clincher for me was that my wonderful wife said that she would buy it for my Birthday pressie (in May) but I charmed her into an advance;-)

Go here http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=17inchlcds&page=1 to read a review which is very accurate based on my aquaintance with this monitor of only 5 days but it really is like another world with almost photographic quality in MS flightsim and clarity undreamed of for all normal use. Incidently my GF Ti 4200 128Mb doesn't have DVI output but It seems to make no difference and in vga mode all the menu items are available for adjustment.

I cannot compete with you guys on the technical arguments but subjectively it is brilliant and I can't believe that the 2 reviewers displayed bias so I trusted them😀

Best regards

Frank
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Thanks for your input Frank, maybe I should consider that model also. I had read somewhere it had problems displaying colors properly or something to that nature.
 
Well, I just got a 172T, and though this thread is several days old, thought I'd chime in about how good it is, and some comparos.

I've used the 191T AND the Dell 1900FP, and I can't believe they are the same thing. I dont know how the dell was hooked in to the machine I was at at the lab, but it looked dim and faded compared to the 191T (dual!)display I saw at a private show from Newtek. Obviously the Newtek guys hooked it in to a dual DVI card, and I'm not sure how the Dell was hooked in, but I'd go with the actual Samsung product if you aren't too hung up on price.

Back to the 172T, the thing is absolutely fantastic. Of course the only game I play is warcraft from time to time, so the supposedly "high" response time makes little difference to me. And I don't know about other LCD manufacturers, but the DVI input on the Samsung make a HELL of a lot of difference. The degree of crispness on DVI is about an order higher, the color saturation across the LCD is great, and the contrast and brightness are a lot better than the 19 inch model. In case you didnt know the resolutions on the 17 and 19 are the SAME! Youll just get larger icons. And considering that there are the same number of pixels on both screens, it doesnt come as a surprise to me that the 17 is brighter and the colors are richer(much like the 15 is even better than the 17).

Just about the only problem is that the LCD is extremely poor at anything other than the native resolution, so if you game a lot, I hope your system is fast enough to run at 1280 all the time. I think the digital input suffers more than analog at non native resolutions.

One more thing, you have to be in a dark room to see the ghosting on the 172T for non gaming stuff. I noticed some ghosting during a late night when I was scrolling mighty quick through a dark background/light text page. Its practically non-existant for everything else.

I picked up my LCD at buy.com, though I had a special promotion which made the price pretty sweet.

The only thing I can complain about is the green pixel thats stuck on the side. Just dont buy the Dell, they seem to have serious quality control issues from all the ones Ive used (which happens to be a LOT since the labs have a billion of these).
 
I've now played a few maps in Unreal Tournament 2003 for 1.5 hours or so. For my light gaming needs, the Samsung 172T is fine. I don't notice the blurriness. In fact, the AVS forums blurriness I talked about in the previous post was much worse.

Then again, some people have said that most UT2003 maps are not as pixel response time dependent as some other games, because of the colours used, etc.
 
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